JavaJane

But if you look closely at the picture (of Delores)..

she is *somewhat* pretty. i.e., not vexingly.. what's the word.. I won't say it here..

rosie.

This is the illustration from the book... much closer, I think.

I do have to say that Lifetime has actually improved in the past couple of years... They acquired Project Runway (one of my all time favorite shows EVER) and have done a better job with their original series than those ridiculous movies. I am not bashing the subject matter either, but when a network consistently shows movies about abuse and thinks that that is the only subject matter that an audience of women will approve of, then they need to re-examine their thought processes. It look like Lifetime is doing that now.

Being a woman, I find it insulting that movie companies think I should fit into a little tiny box defined by my gender as far as what movies I would like. I don't do well in that category. I am a woman who likes science fiction, good dramas, historical films, documentaries, and "dick and fart" humor. I don't enjoy romantic comedies. I think that confuses some people.

One of the kid's favorites...

I would not could not in a house

I could not would not with a mouse.

Lifetime... That would be Lifetime.

I would soooooooooo rather watch the guy film.

The only "chick-flicks" I like are Jane Austen films.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Dolores Umbridge....

Didn't she teach Defense Against the Dark Arts at Hogwart's?

One of my fellowship coordinators told me that you should eat raw potatoes because they were natural penicillin... and that Mrs. Weirwille had recommended it.

And then there was the way Mrs. Weirwille could "rightly divide" pie...

Rosie's the head of the profit-ic counsel, alright!

I remember the whole colon cleanse mess... mandated cleaning of one's colon was a little over the top for me!

Nature's little scrub brushes!

But really, who needs a colon that's so clean you whistle when you pass gas?

Nobody had to dress up or fix their hair. I slept on a good air mattress and there was no rain to deal with. No cell phone reception or electricity. Much nicer than the ROA, which was like a convention held in tents instead of a hotel.

Yeah, who the heck thought dressing up in "Sunday Best" was EVER a good idea while camping??

Been out for 23 years and so my mind has straightened out considerably. So hearing this, my first thought was, That is just crazy.....that people would believe something like people looking like VP because of a familiar spirit.

So, it just is so "far out there", my mind can't wrap itself around the idea....which tells me, my mind must be in pretty good shape!

Yeah, I know... I was listening to some of the old GSC podcasts and it just popped into my head when I heard someone talk about how people would imitate VP's mannerisms (like yelling at people, etc...) and my brain went, "WTF?? Did someone ACTUALLY say that? And I actually believed it???"

OK---I see what you're getting at.

edit:

That's still a long way from people morphing their physical appearance to resemble VPW.

Yup... I'm thinking it was LCM paranoia...

I don't recall ever hearing about a spirit that imitated. Familiar spirits were supposedly the ones that divulged information at seances, psychic readings and so forth.

The way I was taught it (I only had LCM's Advanced Class) was that the familiar spirits operated at seances by imitating the dead because they were familiar with the dead person they were imitating. Does that make sense? (I mean from a twi standpoint, not for normal people - it makes no sense at all if you think about it without the KoolAid chaser!)

My flowers have been amazing this year, and have attracted a lot of butterflies to the front yard as well as two little yellow finches who are nesting in one of the bushes in the front bed. I trimmed the other bush to resemble a bonsai tree after it was attacked by some sort of weird wormy things last year that took out chunks of it. It looks better than it did, but I will be very curious to see how it looks next year after it gets a chance to grow back a bit. Once it cools down this fall and the finches have moved out of the other bush, I will probably trim that one up as well. My herbs have also done remarkably well this year.

It seems that my tomatoes are late in turning red. I will have two I can pick next week, but the rest are still green, and not as many as I would have liked. Same story with my cucumbers. We had a lot of rain this year, and I wonder if it has resulted in my plants being stunted. But, the thyme, sage, and basil have almost made up for my lack of tomatoes! My cabbages seem to be doing well, although the cabbage worms turned two heads into lace while I was on vacation for a week!

I'm planning on planting a couple of rose bushes out front next year, and maybe trying some earlier producing tomatoes in the back next time. I had some success a few years back with the Paul Robeson black tomatoes. I might try those again. And I might plant some daffodils and tulips for next spring, too!!

I swear, gardening is like a form of meditation for me! I come back in after a few hours of working with the soil and my plants and I feel like a huge weight has lifted off of me.

The way they explained it to me was that it was a spirit that was "famiiar" with someone, so they could imitate them after they were dead...

And, yeah... I don't believe most of what they taught about the spirit world anymore. In fact, I can't say I believe any of it... although I do have my own beliefs on the subject now. Now, however, I don't believe everyone who doesn't think like me is possessed.

I just remembered something weird... I remember being told that after VP died, that some people in leadership positions became possessed with a "familiar spirit" of VP which were sent to confuse and divide the ministry.

I never listened to the "leadership tapes" because I was too young at the time. Was this taught? What examples did they give?

I remember when I heard this I thought "nah, it's just people imitating their hero... that's normal." But when I said something to that effect to my leadership, they told me that they had seen people's faces change to look like VP's features. It creeped me out a lot.

So glad I don't live in that horror movie any more.

I just finished listening to the podcast called "Social Equanimity" from 08/01/2010... talks toward the end about exactly what this thread addresses... interesting stuff!

Don't worry about "getting over it"... You might never get over it - or maybe you will. You have been through a lot. It all takes time and work to recover. Let yourself be and let yourself heal. There is no pressure here.

http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/1/

just go that site, old man... Not sure if it's an active link since I posted it from the iPhone... Guess I'll see when I hit post!

Cool, that worked... This isn't the iTunes store, just the audiodharma website.

I have been listening to some podcasts from a guy named Gil Fronsdahl - you can find them by going to the iTunes store and searching under audiodharma. Very interesting... I am really interested in the attitude of living at peace within yourself. The other thing I like is that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, and can be practiced in accord with whatever ideas you hold about God. The meditation part has proved to be helpful for me as well.

Great topic. And I see what you are saying. All religions and beliefs can easily be usd against others if a person does not act out of love.

One other thought is that someone who does adhere to the Buddhist belief system would not try to condemn someone else for the bad things that happen to them, because in their viewpoint it is wrong to cause suffering for someone else. They also would understand that the "bad karma" could come from something in a previous incarnation of the individual, which takes the condemnation out of the situation... Did that make sense?

Funny, I've been delving into some Buddhist beliefs lately out of curiosity... The whole idea of Karma is also caught up with the idea of reincarnation... so if something bad happens to you it is not necessarily the fruit of something you did in this lifetime, but something that may have happened in a previous life. The purpose of these bad things happening from a Buddhist standpoint would be the learning we can gain from them. By dealing with these obstacles and learning from them we can gain a greater understanding which eventually leads to "enlightenment."

Now, I am not a Buddist by any standard... But their belief of Karma isn't the exact same thing as TWI's believing = receiving. It's not always instantaneous. And the bad things that happen are looked upon as a learning experience to better ourselves instead of as a way to tell if we did the right thing or the wrong thing.

I find the whole thing completely fascinating.

**hit edit, and then decided not to add anything after all...

When I was still in, my family was made mark and avoid. They pressured me to get out... told me horrible stories about the abuses in TWI. Told me I was brainwashed, controlled, etc...

I would try and explain that I believed them, but that where I was was a nice place (which was true!)

My mother told me that I wasn't speaking for myself, that I was only speaking what The Way told me to speak. She told me that I was being controlled.

This is one of the things that led to me cutting off all contact with them when it was suggested I do so by my leadership... I felt like my mother and father DIDN'T RESPECT ME. That they thought I was an idiot. That they didn't believe I was capable of thinking for myself.

I was over at my mom's recently, and was talking about someone I know who is still in. My mom told me, "Wayfers are stupid. They have no brain. They are incapable of thinking for themselves!"

It still hurt to hear her say that. And then I realized something...

I LEFT OF MY OWN ACCORD. It was my OWN DECISION to leave. I didn't get kicked out or marked and avoided like my parents. I made the decision on my own. Even while in the cult, I HAD FREE WILL. Was I manipulated? Yes. Did I believe a lot of lies? Yes. And when I finally saw it for what it was, I LEFT.

I told my mom, "People in the Way still have their own minds. They can still think for themselves. They are just influenced by The Way... If they couldn't think for themselves, if they had 'no brains' then The Way wouldn't be losing followers left and right. People can make up their own minds, and they can see the hypocrisy if they choose to open their eyes."

Therein lies the rub - THEY have to CHOOSE for THEMSELVES.... and by telling them that they can't think for themselves you are implying that they are powerless, weakminded people... and it doesn't help them. It only diminishes you in their eyes.

Walk carefully with those who are still in. They are condemned enough by the TWI leadership machine. They are guilted enough. They are disrespected enough.

The best thing you can do for those who are in is show them there is another way, a way out. Show them that TWI's lies about what happens when you leave are false. Show them that the adversary will not send devil spirits to possess you if you leave. Show them they can be free and happy and blessed, and that God will not desert them. Just give them love without condemnation and conditions. They don't get that within TWI.

I realized during that same conversation with my mother that all those conversations where she told me how controlled I was, how brainwashed I was, how weak I was... It helped to drive me away from her and further into TWI. Not that any of that is my mother's fault. It's not... TWI is solely to blame for the schism in my family... but those conversations didn't help heal it.