JavaJane

I can't believe I have never heard of that book, Darth! I was involved in twi for the majority of my lifespan. It must not have been available for very long.

Thanks again, all for the post! I like them VERY much!!

:wub:

Wow! What a thread!

In light of all of these thoughts, a section of scripture (probably mentioned before) that has really helped me recently has been Romans 14 from "The Message." I never remember Romans 14 ever being taught before:

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with - even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume all Christians should be vegetarians and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldn't it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn't eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of his own CONSIENCE.

What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for the prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we are answerable to - all the way from life to death and everything in between - not each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly - or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgement, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit: 'As I live and breathe, God says, every knee will bow before me; every tongue will tell the honest truth that I and only I am God.'

So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

Forget about deciding what's right for each other. Here's what you need to be concerned about: THAT YOU DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF SOMEONE ELSE, MAKING LIFE MORE DIFFICULT THAT IT ALREADY IS [emphasis added]. I'm convinced - Jesus convinced me! - that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it....

...Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don't impose it on others. You're fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you're not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what your believe - some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them - then you know that you're out of line. IF THE WAY YOU LIVE IS INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU BELIEVE, THEN IT'S WRONG.

(Romans 14:1-14, 22-23)

Thank you all for your kind suggestions and encouragement!!

I think they will all help immensely. I came to the realization a couple of years back that I needed to get back on track with my creative endeavors, and I learned fast that I needed to work on them discreetly...

I had been working on a novel at one point, but was told by someone I greaty respected that I needed to look at why I wanted to write? What was the profit? How would it glorify God?

Since it was just a NOVEL with no specific POINT or PROFIT other than being enjoyable, I stopped.

Picked it up again a few years later and realized it was actually not half bad, but when I tried to continue writing, it would only come out in spurts, because I kept trying to cram some sort of biblial lesson into it.

I still have the manuscript sitting somewhere. I should pull it back out again.

Thank you all for helping!

From the last time I attended a "do", it was the same music.... and the one before that, and the one before that. Didn't even change the order of the songs...

I can't even listen to "Unforgettable" anymore. Heard it toooo many times.

Anyone get the last album put out?

Don't worry if you didn't, same songs as the last 5.

maybe he meant farting penguins

Just can't stop laughing about that one! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep, in the WAP foundational class... I remember it well...

He found some articles on methane gas being trapped in ice crystals at the bottom of the ocean along continental plates.

He then tied it in with the whole snow being explosive thing and how VP had gotten revalation about it. I never was sure how methane in the bottom of the ocean tied in with snow, but whatever.

edited for spelling

ABUNDANCE!!!

(sorry, Tourette's is acting up again....)

There was a group in Cleveland that really kicked some butt too but left when their music was deemed too vague.

At least that was the reason I had heard.

Vague? What?

Oh... Do you mean that they didn't use enough of the approved words?

Maybe they didn't prevail tremendously in the promised land of the triumphant victory while living sanctified?

PREVAIL!!

I have had a bit of a problem as a formerly creative individual since my experience in twi... Seems a bit hard to let go and really allow myself to work creatively on anything in the past couple of years.

Anybody else have this problem?

or am I the only one?

I find it hard to even get to the point of letting my mind wander a little bit outside the lines, and this is coming from a formerly prolific writer (posts online DO NOT COUNT), painter, poet, and singer... The only time I seem to be able to think outside my box is while driving, because I can't be working on something else in the meantime...

help?

I was walking around one day when two ladies just walked up to me and asked if I needed prayer for anything. Yes! I said and told them my issue. So we sat down and they began praying to Jesus. In my mind I said "to God in the name of J.C." but continued to accept their help. Whatever happened there, the prayer was heard.

My grandmother always prays to Jesus. Always has, always will. My mom says that on those prayers, Jesus just hands the phone to God and says, it's for you.

When the space shuttle Columbia incident occurred, we had a prayer for the families of the those involved during the noon meal at HQ. I remember a lot of people being a little uneasy and scratching their heads.

It was something different than we were all used too.

Yeah, like when we heard that they were giving money to the tsunami victims...

There are some changes happening for the good.

...."People do not have the answers to their problems within themselves. However, at times it is necessary to examine oneself with the guidance of a competent, godly-minded counselor in order to realize the real problem"....

BLECH!!!

Since when did anyone other than Jesus Christ step in to be the mediator between God and man? But then again, I guess that's why we need such strict supervision on our lives, right?

But statements like this make me wonder - who does he go to for "godly-minded" finger pointng ...errr... I mean, counselling?

The whole thing makes me feel sick... like when someone asks you - "Are you doing ok?" when you feel fine and are having a wonderful day.

Used to have a mysogynistic prick that would ask me that whenever he would see me smiling. When I would say, "Great!" he would ask if I was sure. By the time this line of questioning was over, I went from :lol: to :) to :mellow: to :huh: to :unsure: to :blink: and finally end up :( .

Now I realize I was just letting him ruin my day and take advantage of my desire to do right and be good.

Now I know he had the spiritual insight of a pile of poo.

Yup, HW, that's exactly it.

I even remember having a conversation with someone about serial killers and their victims, and they told me we as Believers had nothing to worry about unless we were possessed because the murderer and the victim are both possessed by the same spirit or the murderer wouldn't be able to kill them.

WHAT??

I later heard someone HORRIBLY apply this logic to what happened at Columbine.

How terrible is that?

We were taught that broken fellowship had consequences... and they were terrible.

I was asked once what I would do if I was ever made MA... I scared the person with my answer: I would kill myself. I would kill myself because I didn't want to become possessed by the devil spirits that would attack me once I was outside the walls of Zion... AND IT WOULD BE SEVEN TIMES WORSE THAN WHAT HAD EVER HAPPENED BEFORE!

Glad I had that cup of reality to wake me up!

I've developed a greater sense of empathy now than ever before. It's easy to feel for people when you finally allow yourself TO FEEL.

Thanks for pointing the "Way" to that thread, Belle and WordWolf! LOL!!

Here's another one I heard from a teenager at the gulag a few years back ----

THE AUDITORIUM is HAUNTED by.... :unsure:

The GHOSTS of the FOUNDING BOT!!! :o

Seriously... I did hear this out of more than one kid. Really.

Scary thought, no?

Anybody else hear this one?

FYI

Another brick was added to the clergy during the Special this past weekend.

In the immortal words of Pink Floyd....

"We don't need no education

We dont need no thought control

No dark sarcasm in the classroom

Teachers leave them kids alone

Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

"Wrong, Do it again!"

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you

have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

My results from reading the thread have been refreshing, too....

See, when I was laying awake in bed last night I started thinking... and the thinking turned into talking to God about what I thought. I tried really hard not to filter what I was saying for doctrinal errors or so that I was praying while being in alignment and harmony... having needs and wants paralel... I just let God know how I feel.

Now, admittedly, I did fall into a little of the old pattern of simply listing needs with a "thank you for..." in front, but when I realized it, I went back to simply having a real conversation.

And some of the burdens went away. Because I was honest. I mean what the hey - It's not like He doesn't know what I'm thinking already!

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. Please keep it coming. It's helping me if not anybody else!

to all: [/b]

As with so many of the closed corporation attitude changes mentioned here, it is truly a challenge to retain the kindness of the Lord in a cross-religion environment.

....And I don't think you can remain a groupy exclusively because the Lord loves too many other people, and thinking like that always stuck in the craw of loyal twi people from the very beginning of my involvement (1972 I was witnessed to by Michael Martin).

How true it is! I always wondered how if God looked on the heart He could be so narrow minded as to what He considered OK. If the motive of heart is what is looked at, and people do what they consider to be right and loving God in so many different forms and fashions, then why should we judge?

I agree with WordWolf on the living Christianity and humility that is found in the Catholic Church. I have been a practicing Catholic for about 12 years now, and going to that Church is still one of my favorites because of the lack of groupiness.

I think being constantly reminded of the Passion of our Lord tends to keep one humble.

That will truly keep you humble.

I attended my first mass that wasn't a funeral on Christmas Eve this past year. The service made me cry I was so touched. More touched than I have been in fellowship in years and years.

The priest had called all the little kids up to the front of the church and asked them where Jesus was. Of course, the kids pointed to the manger. The priest then explained that they could see Jesus in each other if they looked really hard. Then he told them to hug each other and show God how much they loved him.

I'm tearing up thinking about it. That was a teaching with power.

My in laws are Catholic, they love God more than most and they show it in how they love everybody else. God will honor that heart for sure.

Manifest the LOVE!!

Hugs to all!

Just finished this very strange thread... I have heard the same story as Mr. B, only the version of the tale I had heard had the melodramatic touch at the end that he had asked God for forgiveness for what he had done.

And what could that be?

When I was a kid at Sunday School I remember being taught that if I asked God to forgive me when I committed a sin, if I died, I would go to heaven, but if I died with unforgiven sins that I hadn't asked forgiveness for, I would go to hell.

So, just before I went to bed every night to make sure all my bases were covered I would ask God to forgive me for all the bad things I forgot that I did during the day. That way if the bomb dropped while I was sleeping, I would be covered through the "if you ask for forgiveness it's covered" loophole.

I was a weird little kid.

Maybe he was just trying to make sure he had absolution for all the crappy things he did...

That is if the whole thing isn't some sort of weird twi urban legend.

How very very true, Belle.

I have had to work very hard to regain my trust in myself (not to mention others) because of my experiences. It seemed that the closer I got to the center of things, the worse I looked. Makes yourself doubt your abilities that God gave you, and when you became comfortable with yourself you were told you had a problem with ego - that you were too prideful.

I was taken aside at one point and told I was on the verge of "spiritual death" (whatever the hell that means - I didn't have the guts to ask at the time, it just scared the s*** out of me) because of my problems with pride. I was also told that this was taken directly to DEF-confrontation Level III "to the church" (do not pass go, do not collect $200) because of the seriousness of my problem.

Matthew 18:17

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Somehow verses 15 and 16 got skipped - you know, tell it to him alone, then take 2-3 witnesses, etc.

And the funny thing was that the "church" in a branch full of fellowships consisted of 2 people. I guess they were the only ones spiritually qualified to be there. When I spoke with one of them later, they told me that they had no clue what was going on, but that they felt the best thing they could do was just sit still and not say anything.

Years later (like over a decade) I started to consider the timeframe of this in my life - my family had just been made MA, one of the reasons being cited was something along the lines of my mother being "willfull" or something. I wonder if they figured they better get me under control before I grew up to become like her.

Too late for that now. I'm just like my Mom... Hope to become more like her, too!

May I buy you your first cuppa java here?

Thanks! MMMMMmmmmMMMMMmmmm, Pastry, too!!

I thought of something else after I posted the last message on this forum... I do remember being taken aside with another young lady from our branch and confronted about the teen orgies that were happening at the ROA and asked why we hadn't said anything! We hadn't said anything because we were never knew anything was happening - we were at the teachings...

Afterwards, I wasn't sure if I should be offended that someone thought I was involved, or offended because no one asked me to take part?

A few years later I ran into one of the guys who was involved in all of that at the ROA... It was a little strange the difference in attitude regarding things... I was so concerned about not being at every meeting and trying to do my best, and he just kept talking about how he couldn't wait for his parents to go to the teachings so he could go party with the other kids.

My parents, in the meantime, had me right at their sides, and I am glad for that.

Hi, new here... been quietly sipping coffee in the corner booth, but now the caffeine has kicked in...

On the topic of superiority. Anyone out there kinda miss the old "I'm better than you are" mindset that was oooooh so comfortable? Wasn't it a great feeling to kick off your shoes at the end of the day and just KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW that you were better than everyone else out there because you HAD THE RIGHTLY DIVIDED WORD??

I am being a little bit sarcastic here.

just a little.

But seriously, it's a little difficult to help people when you look at them like everything that happened to them happened because they deserved it. God looked past what we deserved when he gave His son for us.

We were taught "saved by grace" in doctrine, but we were also taught that we could lose access to God's ear by screwing something up. Where's the grace in that?

New here.. Hi to all! Been lurking in the back booth checking ya'all out for a while, and I like the atmosphere of "say what you think" that permeates this joint - it's refreshing!

I was raised in "the Word" starting in my early teens. I can honestly say that I am thankful for most of it, and believe that I had a good childhood. I never got in much trouble... But I think this also had a lot to do with my parents, moreso than the ministry.

I never knew about the sexual crap that went on until much later... when I was an adult.

I definately had it a lot better than my other siblings... I was older, out of the house by the time things got real religious. I'm glad. They had to endure the FC after being yanked from highschool. The stories they relate are theirs to tell if they ever want to. It was not a healthy environment for them at all.

I do remember being very upset at one point in my late teens because my parents had decided to go into the WC with my sibs, but couldn't take me because I was too old to go with them. I hadn't even had a place on my own yet! I got very mad at God then because I felt He was taking my family from me.

I got over it, though, [yeah, right] and followed my parent's example by increasing my commitment to THE WORD and going out on an outreach quest. A good time. I learned a lot, met good people, and was forced to grow up, buck up, and LIVE THE STANDARD!!

I lived the standard so much that when my parents were made MA, I MAed them too, thinking I was doing God a great service. Boy, was I wrong! Thank God I know now. He didn't want me separated from my family. He never took them away from me, I took myself away (with a healthy dose of encouragement - not strictly stated by leadership, mind you.)

Now I know better. Not so niave. In a way, it's nice to know, but in another way, it was nice to be ignorant.

Ignorance is bliss, but when you do get that steaming hot cup of reality poured right in your lap, it hurts like hell.

Things are better. My family is together, I am thankful for their forgiveness.

In the back of my mind there still that annoying voice saying "You've walked out of the Household and therefore God's protection, your prayers are worthless, how dare you"

Sure you're not playing that audio clip that's lying around here somewhere?

Welcome JavaJane

I see you've brought your own coffee.

What's that say on your avatar? (on the bottom)

I am NEVER without coffee. I think I was born with it in my blood (or at least that's what my Mamma said.)

As for the avatar... "Is the planet shaking, or is that just me?"

Chas - thanks for the compliment...

And Groucho - the few times in the recent past I have found myself praying with depth have been in the midst of BIG emotions... Rage, sadness, extreme happiness. At those points, I have no problem breaking the facade and being me.

I think it has so much to do too with the idea that we are to "control" [translation: do not have] emotions.

... or was that EMOTICONS?

Hello, Bolshevik and All...

I'm a "newbie" at the cafe, been silently lurking in the shadows at the back of the cafe reading posts and feeling the place out for a while, and I have to say it has been a PLEASURE to hear everything people have had to say, whether I agree with them personally or not.

I have had a similar problem to Bolshevik... Prayer within the fellowship for so many years (won't tell you HOW many, just that it was a lot) was so stilted that I still have problems within my private prayer life. I don't find myself WANTING to pray because when I do I slip back into the old "lift list" mentality - which isn't so much a prayer as was stated previously, just a listing of needs... After thinking about it, it reminded me of when I would pray before going to bed when I was probably a preschooler (before my family got in "the Word".)

It almost seems like a chore in some cases. Any advice on how to share your heart with God more would be great. I don't think it's supposed to be as boring as I have made it.

Once again, thanks for having me. You will be hearing much from me in the future, I am sure.