JavaJane

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm

You die when you quit believing to live.

And here's a quote:

"Here's a rhyme, how much wood could a wood chuck chop, if a wood chuck could chop wood?

Here's another. How much deception can be seen and heard, when there is no word, and nobody is really listening?"

I think they need a lesson in rhyming.

*Shakes head*

Just how "spiritually mature" do you have to be to recognize when something is ugly, meaningless, schlock......

Oh yea.....I forget...they're the only people on earth that God spits at....

The most recent one I have seen has all the markings of textbook bad art - no knowledge of human anatomy, hands hidden from view, bad perspective - you name it, it's got it.

Tried to get a pic off the website, but it seems to be down.

...if you buy your "living room art" from the Way International Bookstore. ( UGH!)

ROTF LMAO!!

I was just thinking the same thing - and the more recent you get, the uglier they are!

b. O foolish Galatians! The strong words are well deserved. Phillips even translates this, O you dear idiots of Galatia. In calling the Galatians foolish, Paul is not saying they are morally or mentally deficient (the Greek word moros conveys that idea, and was used by Jesus in parables, such as in Matthew 7:26; 25:1-13). Instead, Paul uses the Greek word anoetos, which has the idea of someone who can think but fails to use their power of perception.

i. The principles Paul referred to are things the Galatians knew, things they had been taught. The knowledge and understanding were there, but they were not using them.

Excellent point - we all read the Bible... heck, apparently the "Galatians tapes" even said some of the correct things, but LCM changed the truth of God into a lie and tricked us right back into the legalism - just in a different way.

c. Who has bewitched you: Bewitched has the idea that the Galatians are under some type of spell. Paul doesn’t mean this literally, but their thinking is so clouded – and so unbiblical – that it seems that some kind of spell has been cast over them.

That's exactly how I felt when I came to realize the smoke and mirrors techniques used to distract from what was really going on in twi. Like I had had a spell cast upon me to make me blind.

Great post, another spot! SPOT ON!!

http://www.aromiditalia.com/AboutUs/index.htm

There are also adds up above for coffee and coffee beans, I imagine due to JavaJane's handles. But why gelato?

My true calling - spreading the true gospel of coffee to victims of twi's false coffee doctrines... no freeze dried coffee sans water, no re-making coffee with old grounds! No nasty coffee from Adoph's!

That's what it means by exposing the secrets of coffee!!

How incredibly stupid and arrrogant! To think that someone could get control of their dreams - and worst to think that anyone had the audacity to impose their own spin on someone's dreams is just ...welll.....insanity.

Oddly enough, I think that insanity is a by-product of not dreaming.......

I actually know from an experience back in the bygone days of yesteryear when I was very young that this is true. Living on pizza, caffiene, and microwave burritos with no sleep for several days will cause you to hallucinate. Scared the poop out of me.

Sure. The legalism in twi was brutal beyond belief. No love at all. The single biggest difference is God loves us, twi leadership does not, did not. I really do get where you’re coming from. Lived through it myself.

Exactly, another spot. In my case, I literally believed that if I ever even considered leaving twi, I may as well go kill myself before I ended up in the hands of devil spirits who would use me for evil. I literally believed that twi was in all ways the end all be all of spiritual perfection. They managed to usurp the place God and God alone should have in my heart.

Is it possible to love God and have a healthy respect for Him at the same time? Is it possible to love Him more deeply because you really get it deep down who He is? The whole beauty of the Exodus record is God showed Israel how powerful He is. He wanted them to take Him very seriously so they would obey. He was trying to impress upon them very deeply these things were WRONG and carry it with them so they wouldn’t sin. Reverential awe (dictionary.com). Fear in the sense of taking Him very seriously. As I stated in my post above, twi doctrine undermined that kind of respect. The kind of fear I’m talking about is not the quaking kind, God and the base bat kind used in twi in connection with leadership. As I stated in my post above, twi doctrine undermined that kind of respect. The God of twi was a genie in a lamp.

Yes. A healthy respect for God is necessary, and needed in order to be able to see His greatness. The analogy of a genie in a lamp fits well. And I am glad to hear you say that this fear is not the quaking kind of fear, but a "reverential awe." Before coming to twi as a young teen, I had been taught in the denominational church I had been attending that God did terrible things to people - that He sent unbaptized babies to hell, that He killed people for his own enjoyment. God became even worse than a baseball bat to me - He became a monster. By all means, please do not misunderstand me - I think a reverential awe is great... I think being terrified of an all-powerful maniac is not.

This is one of the verses vp used to justify dispensationalism. His thing was license and being able to disregard “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Not under the law, you know. If you are walking in love in the renewed mind and in fellowship you can break the entire OT, according to twi, if you’re mature enough. It was not to us, but for our learning. We now live on this higher spiritual plane, doncha know. You and I may not have done this, but plenty at the top did. Keep in mind the subject of Galatians was faith vs works. It isn’t tossing out the law, or it would be ok to murder.

I agree as well. The Law should not be completely tossed out the window...

For me, Galatians has been an incredibly healing book when I read it as not just meaning the Law of the OT, but as ANY man made tenants (string the chairs, set the table the right way, don't fellowship with unbelievers, etc.) that took the focus away from the accomplishments of Jesus Christ and the greatness of what we have because of it. In this way, Galatians opened up to me in an entirely different light... The people who were leading the Galatians away from God did not do it just by forcing the Law down people's throats... If so, then what's the big deal? For me, the answer was that these people got so caught up in their works that they couldn't see the greatness of the spirit within them. If you can walk by the spirit and the example of Jesus Christ, all the law gets taken care of... as you state below.

Love God, love your neighbor is itself a commandment given by JC, as he said, it summarizes all the law and prophets. The basic change in the NT is how we are justified (not our works but faith), the accomplishments of JC doing what obedience to the law could not do (redemption), and a change in emphasis dropping the rituals but not the ethics. NT builds on the ethics side. It points out it is sin to act in a manner that is not loving towards others. It was sin in the OT also. The distinction is we are not under the law in the sense of justified by works. Growing up in love is fine. It’s great, but giving not under the law as a reason isn’t logical.

Thank you so much for your explanation, another spot... I think we are on the same page after all.

I think I understand the logic behind the idea that we will forget the sins we have been forgiven for after we have the new body, but how about those sins that were committed AGAINST us? For example, will we remember the things that have happened to us that were negative when we receive our new bodies?

I don't see the logic in not remembering anything negative that happened in our lifetime... What would be the incentive to fight the devil unless we understood that he was evil and had experienced that evil for ourselves? Would we remember the fall of man as what put us in a place that we would need redeeming? Would we remember why Jesus Christ had to be sacrificed - which was our sinful nature?

RainbowsGirl, thank you for your explanation of why we would not remember the terrible things we had done in our lifetimes.

Thank you all for your input, this has bothered me for some time.

Start a new thread and I'll give you my opinions on fiction and the universal themes involved.

I'd post more, Mr. Hammeroni, but it's past this kid's bedtime.

Good night, GSC!

And once again, the squirrel is left alone in an empty room to ponder the secrets of the universe...

I give up on that one... click here - it works, too....

Mr. B...

:blink:

That about sum it up for you?

BUT are you a.....Turd? :biglaugh:

Dang it!! My cool picture didn't show up. Let me try again...

Mr. Hammeroni, are you a Time Lord?

I was at the Way HQ in 1983 on Memorial Day (in-residence Corps) and in 1984 (on staff there my interim year). We celebrated Memorial Day both years ... with the day off when I was on Staff ... it IS a place of business and the employees got days off ... hard to believe, I know, but we did. I don't think there is anything insidious about doing Pentecost a week early so the employees can have the day off.

I think the employees would agree with you, there, DL!!

Please forgive me in advance, O fellow GSCers... I am not well. I am giving you fair warning :

http://www.poodleturds.com/

I am not a poodle:

I was thinking I could leave twi and its doctrines behind.

I'm concerned that I'm going to have to know PFAL inside out just to avoid believing it again in another church.

But you've had a lifetime of experience living PFAL, right, Mr. B? Just pick out the good stuff and spit out the bad... Nothing wrong with that...

Just like with greasespot - you decide what's good and what's bad. No pressure.

How about a poodle wine cozy for your Pinot Coco?

From Off Shoots Collections to Daleks... not to far from the original topic, when you really think deeply about it.

I bet this is the real reason I feel so at home around here... it's not the communal twi experiences... it's all the scifi fans!

Anybody have a sonic screwdriver?

I am reminded of the reasons Dennis Leary gave for the meat we eat: whatever is cute (otters, cats, puppies) we don't eat... But when we see a stupid ugly COW or PIG (not cute) we say... MMMMMMmmmmMMMMMmmmm.... meat!

I think all of this started to hit me while taking one of my last pfal classes before the new class... I was sitting there in the back row trying to stay awake, or at least not let anyone see me fall asleep. I had my Companion Bible in front of me and started reading the notes next to the verses vp was reading - and it was almost verbatim. I thought that was strange, but in my sleep deprived state (I was working early every morning after working crew on the class) I figured it didn't matter too much.

Why that's Rose Tyler from the new Doctor Who. Run for your life

Yeah!! Another Dr. Who fan!! (us scifi geeks are coming out of the woodwork!) Hooray!!!

:

Wow! How cool. That makes a lot of sense, another spot. The fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning. Let's face it. Most of us would have done a lot of stupid things that we didn't because we feared the concequences when we were growing up. There has to be a deterrant.

No fear of God or concequences is unsound thinking. Makes sense to me!

But then again, wasn't it fear of consequences that kept a lot of us from doing the right thing while involved with twi?

My motivation not to steal from others is not that I may go to prison, it is because stealing from someone else would hurt them. I do not murder because of the harm it would cause others, not because I am afraid that I will get the death penalty. I also do not worship anything before God because it would hurt God's heart, and I love Him.

As stated above, the motivation of a child is determined by fear of consequences inflicted by parents... this is how they learn initially what is right and what is wrong...

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Since we are no longer under the law, we should be growing up into love as our motivation.... loving God, and loving your neighbor as yourselves.

Not that we shouldn't fear conequences for our actions, but our motivator should be love.

The squirrel hit it on the head again!!

I think (at least for now) the best thing I can do for myself is spend some serious time developing who I am and my own relationship with God - not the pre-packaged "relationship" any religion says that I "should" have. God is pretty big, I think He has room for an individual daughter like me who doesn't fit into the regular mold.

After all He made me.

Interesting to note that the two great commandments laid out by Jesus Christ both involved love (agapeo.)

But it does say to agapeo ourselves, too...

Never really thought about that before.

Jesus Christ is the only one who really walked the law perfectly, and he himself did not necessarily keep the letter of the law as described by the religious authorities of the time (at least in how they perceived that law.) His walk was based on the heart of the law, described in the two great commandements.

Interesting...

If we were able to agape ourselves, would we let people walk all over us?

...I just won't pay anymore for warmed over, half eaten, regurgitated pfal material. If it was so great the first time around, why do I need to buy it all over again? If it is so great, why is it that the only people who seem to see the greatness of it are these grifters who insist on continuing vic's legacy?

I feel EXACTLY like that, Mr. Squirrel... If I am going to start attending another group, then it will be ANOTHER group. Something at the base of the doctrine of twi was wrong, or it wouldn't have produced the fruit it did through the abuse of its followers. Why would I want to attend somewhere that was based on the same doctrines?

If the only thing different than twi is a few small details and the fact that they hate twi as it is today, it just doesn't make sense to head in that direction... Seems like that ministry would mainly be based on hatred for one thing or the other.

Just thinking out loud, here... I figure if you are happy where you are, then stick with it - it must be meeting some need for you.