JavaJane

So, just as a general question for all of you involved in this conversation...

How do your posts line up with the concept of agape - whether you define it as "unconditional love" or "The love of God in the renewed mind"?

Do they line up with the great commandments as outlined by Jesus Christ - agape God, and agape your neighbor as yourself?

I find it ironic that there is so much finger pointing and name calling going on in a thread that is supposed to be about the love of God.

Reminds me of something... Oh, yeah! twi... How stupid of me not to have seen it before.

Just remember, play nice. God loves all of you.

Hugs from Jane!!

(Pond - that was a terrible thing that happened to you when you were marked and avoided. I'm glad you are here now and have at least begin to heal.)

((((((POND)))))))

Hi Red,

The site was down at the time.

welcome, Red! Want some pie? Coffee? Got both right here!! (they are all virtual foods, however, but they taste virtually darn good!)

So I don't derail another thread - anybody out there have examples of Takit music? It was before my time, and I'm curious.

Thanks!

You are correct in that is what God told EVE. But was it intended for all women or just her? Some would say it was never meant to have been for all women. In Judaism it is said it was Eve's punishment and it was passed down. Then throughout Genesis various women began the process of undoing that "punishment". Abraham was told to listen to Sarah. Rebecca knew who the true heir was supposed to be, etc.

And I guess the final overcoming of the "punishment" would logically follow in Genesis 3:15 regarding the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent...

Interesting...

Amok! Amok!

*edited to add Amoks because they are fun!

One area I lived in was never like this - we never had to clean a Limb home, the most we ever had to do was clean up, set up, and tear down for classes - and it was on a completely volunteer basis. And most of the time it was fun!

But I think that was because of the area leadership. Things changed when the next limb leader came in... They even bought my car before I moved to "help me out" but refused to pay for it saying something was wrong with the vehicle making it unsafe to drive and that they would pay me the amount for the car minus repairs once the repairs had been completed... I was leaving the next day so I didn't argue - after all, I thought they were leaders in the ONE TRUE HOUSEHOLD, right? Later I found out from someone in the area that they had seen them driving my car all over town. I called them and set them straight. Got my check a week later.

What a change from the people who had been heading up the place previously! I think that whole incident started to open my eyes to the wonderful world of twi.

Anybody have a sample of Takit? It was before my time, but I have heard them mentioned more than a couple of times by other people. I'd be interested to hear it.

Thanks!

Actually, sleep causes cancer - which is spitit possession... so no sleep is good sleep, right?

(hence day old stretched coffee with a dry instant coffee chaser... mmmmm Mmmmmm)

Thank you, Shifra...

It is pretty terrible to think that we were taught to put twi before our families and loved ones. If God is a good God, He wouldn't want that... especially if he's a parent.

I was once told that the word "fun" wasn't in the Bible, so we weren't supposed to be focused on having a good time.

How's that for bondage?

That's the place I want to be - where fun isn't even mentioned!

Good times, good times...

Let's see... the decade of prevailing started in 1990...

And it's 2007 now...

And that's... uh... 2000, plus 7 more years...

Well, you see, a decade is ten years NOW, but back in the old testament days, it was really a lot longer, so it's okay for us to celebrate the decade of prevailing for 20-25 years or so!!!

Like I said, the Decade of Prevailing II - Rosie's REVENGE!!

Come to think of it, I haven't heard anything from JCNG as a focus of twi for quite a while - probably due to the "contraversial" nature of the work... Since this is a kinder, gentler twi, dontcha know?

Makes me think it's a ploy to get more people in, the more similar it is to any other church, then the less threatening... so on and so on...

It seems like twi would get presidential whiplash with how fast they change tacts, but I guess whatever gets the people in the door. Non confrontational, easy to swallow twi. It doesn't hit you until later exactly what you swallowed.

From my experience, yes. They get mushy... but sweet and yummy, too.

I really like grilling veggies as kabobs and then using them cold on top of salad the next day with a little balsamic, olive oil, toasted walnuts or pine nuts and some feta... MMMMmmmmMMMmmmm. Bleu cheese works instead of the feta, too.

Think I'm grilling this week!

Just wanted to let you all know that I have begun editing a project I started years ago - started off like I was stuttering... But it got easier and easier to write.

got through 30+ pages in a little under a week!!

WHOOOO hoooo!!

I'm writing again!

Thanks to all of you who posted on this thread and who PMed me with words of encouragement.

That ol' debbil spitit called WRITER'S BLOCK has been cast out!!

Just thought this poem was interesting in light of the topic:

LOVE

Gurulugomi (Buddhist Sage~12th Century AD)

If you develop love truly great,

rid of the desire to hold and possess.

That strong, clean love untarnished by lust,

that love which does not expect to be repayed,

that love which is firm but not grasping,

enduring but not tied down,

gentle and settled,

diamond-hard but unhurting,

helpful but not interfering,

cool and refreshing,

giving more than taking,

dignified but not proud,

soft but not weak,

that love which leads to Enlightenment,

then you will be washed of all ill-will.

Sound familiar?

My 2nd marriage outside TWI has been a dream come true for me. I have a completely opposite marriage this time. There are no secrets, and we are equals and in LOVE!!

I think that "no secrets" part is a real big key, Notta... We all had secrets in twi, and they were used against us when we did tell them - i.e. the "From Birth to the WC" crap they had people write, only to have those heart sharings turned around on them and used to hurt them at a later time when it was convenient for the leadership.

The same even happened in some marriages where either secrets were hidden from spouses because of that fear of the secret being revealed to someone in a position of authority in an interrogation (oh, did I say that? I meant "counselling") session. Or worse, being afraid if you let your weakness show your spouse would desert you as being "spiritually contaminated."

Before we got married, my husband and I both sat down and had a very long discussion about what came first - twi, or each other. This was sparked by the man who was counselling us when he said that he knew that his wife would leave him if he ever left the ministry. (this man is a good man, by the way - one of few who have been ordained by twi.) How sad is that! That this man who had devoted his life to this ministry and placed everything else on hold for it knew that his wife would leave him if he ever left twi.

After that session, my husband and I sat down and had a long talk about priorities. We decided our committment was to our marriage which was our vow before God. Not to any organization.

Anyway, glad to hear your marriage is good, Notta!

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself, hmmm...I didn't...but you did. Excellent post! Do you mind if I copy it for future reference? It's not like it would be the first one of your posts that I have copied. Hehe Between you and Abi and several others my file cabinet runneth over! But that's a good thing.

So if we are going to act upon the premise that the OT is mostly history and that not everything in reflects God's will then where does the question of the Bible denegrading women fit in?

Take what you want! I'm giving it out for free!!

As for the question of the Bible denegrading women... I think most of the denegrading can be tied into the culture of the time and not the specifically the commandments given to them by God. Since the Bible was edited by MALES and MEN were the ones who put together the final canon, I think we can be assured that at least SOME of their male-dominated society viewpoints crept in to what was seleceted and what wasn't...

I would love to spend some time reading some of the other books that were rejected from the final cut - it would be interesting what was considered as holy writings prior to that editing process.

Was it the Counsel of Nicea where that canon was set? I can't remember... but that specific Counsel, if not all of them had a definite political agenda as well as a spiritual one!

Thank you all so much. Heard this morning that Uncle Vince now has a tube in his leg to help drain the excess fluids in his body. We're praying that this will help his lungs as well.

Once again, thank you all so much!

Hello, Nico!! Welcome to the Spot!! I'll buy you a cup of coffee if you want!

I'm sorry, Bluzeman, I really thought you were just jokng about the bigot thing, I didn't mean to come off that way at all. I was just joking about it.

Just as a reply to all the bigot stuff... for the record, I am the WHITE half of a BIRACIAL MARRIAGE... And have lived in inner cities surrounded by blacks, hispanics, and asians...

I was also raised in a small town of about 500 or so people that was predominantly white with a few native americans. I can skin a deer, pluck chickens, ride horses bareback, go barefoot most of the time. I also grow my own garden in my backyard and one of my best friends in this town is a self-professed redneck who competes in tractor pull races and couldn't make it into work on Friday because she was chasing her son's sheep that had broken down the fence.

I was just poking fun at the people in this town, no specific races in mind...

And as for the "inbreeding" comment - people at my work have married people who have the same last names they do (things like Bornsketter and Hossfelt) - they DID check records before they got married and found out they were related by marriage only - they each had one half of set of great-grandparents in a situation where one was a widower and one was a widow... Got married after they already had kids from the previous marriage... Not REALLY inbreeding, but darn close. We joke about it at work all the time. They all tell me they know I'm not from here because I'm not related to anyone who works there.

You can call me a bigot if you want. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I really didn't mean it like that.

*edited for grammar

My husband's Uncle Vince is in the hospital. His lungs are filled with fluid and his liver is failing. He may need a transplant. It is effecting my father-in-law quite a bit because this is his brother.

Please pray for Vince and his brothers and sisters. He is very loved in this family.

Thank you all.

I dont think that Eve was placed "under" Adam so much as Adam was given the responsibility of Eve. Remember he is the one that denied any copability in the whole "apple" affair, and blamed it all on Eve. So then in the "fall" Adam was given a huge majority of the responsibility of his wife. If I remember correctly without going back some pages to find it, man was charged with the protection of the woman and if he died his sons were responsible for her. So it wasn't so much that woman was made lower than man but she was removed from the equation so man could not blame her for his own actions any more. That of course backfired because today Eve is blamed for the entire fall of man.

Good point, Eyes!

As for the OT being viewed as history rather than the will of God in action - this makes a lot of sense to me... We can learn a lot from the history, but without the understanding of the culture of the time it just doesn't make a lot of sense...

Things like that are all over the place in our own history books. Without the understanding of social interactions and customs of the times, the reasons of wars, political upheavals, etc, don't make any sense, even a couple of hundred years ago. Or even looking at current events such as what is happening in foreign countries.

Just because culture dicates something doesn't mean it is right or wrong, or even God's will. There are some groups that believe it is God's will to kill their daughters in "honor killings" because they were kidnapped and possibly raped. They are not viewed as victims, but as bringing disgrace upon their families. You may not even be able to document this tradition in this culture's own holy books, but it still happens and is still viewed as God's will.

So many things are blamed/credited to God who probably had absolutely nothing to do with it. I think many of these records in the OT reflect this.

Someone in twi once said to me that the culture of the time was based on God's will, and by studying the "orientalisms" involved we could uncover the truth behind the culture... Makes it sound like we should all be living as they did in the OT then, doesn't it? I don't ascribe to this view. I think by understanding the culture we can better understand some of the records - but if the actions of the people mentioned in the history - if they are "good" or "evil" or just plain stupid - has to be judged on their own merits.

Was it accepted by culture in the OT to have multiple wives as king? yes. Was it accepted according to the law given by God? No. Deu 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. (in reference to the king.)

Obviously there were some who obeyed culture and not the Laws set out by God. (David, Solomon, to name a couple.) Just because these were "Men of God" doesn't mean that what they did was right in the sight of God.

We had the same problem in twi - we (ok, at least I) thought that everything the "MOG" did had to be right, even if it didn't make sense or line up with the what the Bible said...

I remember asking my mother the very first time that I took the class as a teenager, "Mom, why does he keep repeating himself? Does he think we are all stupid?" She should have just said, "Yes"

Hmmmph!

My mom actually told me before I took the class that a lot of it was repetitive - but that was because he was teaching to the lowest level of intelligence that could take the class...

So, Eyes, her answer to that question was YES. She said the same thing about the collaterals, too... and a lot of things, come to think of it.

So do all those inbred white neighbors of yours know what a bigot you are?

Rick

Nah, I look pretty white.

I don't know about noble, maybe a litttle nuts..

I'm just.. a Squirrel without a cause..

Be careful, Mr. Ham... It may be "squirrell thinning" season at HQ - look out for Howard!! He hates your entire species!

I've got it!!

Decade of Prevailing II - the Reckoning.