JavaJane

Oh, Topper!

That sucks! Well, now you know you are no longer in a cult because you are thinking about who YOU really are! It's a fun journey, my friend...

I don't know personally if they do not recognize Memorial Day at all. I do know it is inadvertantly celebrated (if not with pomp and ceremony) by every member of staff who gets to have a day off! (poor things)

Anywho... It may have something to do with honoring the dead. While Veteran's day honors living veterans, Memorial Day is specific to honoring those that have died. Since twi seems to have the idea that the only way you die is by breaking fellowship with God and since the dead are not alive, putting flowers on the graves of the fallen could be considered akin to worshipping the dead.

I'm just thinking out loud... this is, of course, not from any official source at twi.... Like Mr. B, I don't remember one way or another>

Here's information on the history of Memorial Day: http://www.usmemorialday.org/backgrnd.html

Anyone else able to confirm/deny the celebration of Memorial Day at twi?

Thanks, Roy!!

Are the sins we committed, sins others committed against us, and bad things that happened to us in this life remembered in the next one?

I have been taught this doctrine on several occassions within twi - can anyone come up with backing? I can't make it logical to myself as hard as I try... Jesus remembered his crucifixion in his new body, he didn't forget what had happened to him.

The only verse I have heard to back this train of thought has been Isa 35:10:

And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

I never thought this meant that we wouldn't remember the sorrow and sighing, just that we wouldn't experience them any more.

Thoughts?

I think this falls within the duties of robots as decribed in Asimov's fourth law: "A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm"

Therefore, it is our duty to expose the "faulty program."

Humans may be the ultimate example of artificial intelligence... and apparently our programming can be changed and/or upgraded.

I wonder if Iron Chef ever had Poodle as a theme ingredient?

Is this a violation of the Three Laws?

For those of you non-scifi geeks, I will provide translation (from Wikipedia, because I thought I would mess it up:

In science fiction, the Three Laws of Robotics are a set of three rules written by Isaac Asimov, which almost all positronic robots appearing in his fiction must obey. Introduced in his 1942 short story "Runaround", although foreshadowed in a few earlier stories, the Laws state the following:

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Later, Asimov added the Zeroth Law: "A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm"; the rest of the laws are modified sequentially to acknowledge this.

Thanks to all of you who have posted on this thread... It echoes a lot of questions that I have had regarding the subject of women. The information from the Jewish line of reasoning has helped a lot!

Something I was thinking about with Miriam (backtracking a long way back in the thread, I know) is that she may have been influenced by the myth of Sargon - meaning that this story may have sprung to mind when it came time to save her brother. The same story may also have influenced the decision of Pharoah's daughter to keep Moses rather than having him killed.

Also, the serpent in voodoo represents change and transformation. I have also read (somewhere) that the snake is considered the giver of knowledge in voodoo.... interesting in the concept of the transformation of Adam and Eve after their temptation.

As for the status of women within the church - it always rubbed me the wrong way when I heard LCM teach that the only reason God was talking to Deborah and not a man was because there were no men who had risen up to hear... As if God was somehow insulted that He had to speak to a WOMAN.

Basically, modern Christianity has removed the woman from any place of authority within the church - I think it has a lot to do with the Eve being the one who brought the downfall of humanity. She was the cause, right?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

If she was indeed the cause - why doesn't it make her responsible for the downfall of man? (Not that I'm saying she should have eaten the fruit - or whatever it was...) But Adam was the one who seems to bear the responsibility according to scripture. After all, he was only tempted by his wife, while she was tempted by the serpent who was more crafty than any beast of the field.

My point? That because Eve (erroneously) is so tied into the fall it is easy to manipulate the image of women into the temptesses, the cause of suffering for man, and those that must hold their tongues when speaking of spiritual matters.

And as far as the question of Jesus Christ being married (to Mary Magdalene or any other woman) what are the implications if it was true? And I really don't know if it is or not - I wasn't there... The implications would be staggering. Sex would not have the stigma attached to it in our society - it would not be viewed as something base and vile - instead it could be viewed as something holy.... It would place wives at a greater position for respect, because if Jesus Christ didn't NEED a woman in his life, then why would anyone else who is truly desiring to be spiritual need one?

If he is the "second Adam" then who is his Eve? The best explanation I have heard in support of the case that he was never married is that his Eve was Israel, the bride of Christ... but if he was to be tempted in all things like as we are and yet without sin, it almost follows that he would need to have that woman that he cared about as much as Adam cared about Eve...

Been thinking a lot about the Shekinah as the female aspect of God, too. Thanks so much for the information. God is represented with some female characteristics in the Bible, and it makes sense for there to be a female side to God. Since God is the Creator, He/She/It(?) would sensibly have both characteristics of Mother and Father...

As Father, He provides seed (an outside influence on the "egg".)

As Mother, She provides the egg (the basics from which life is produced.

Just thinking, or as you said....

running AmOK AMOK AMok!!

...you eat golden seal when you get double pneumonia

Hey, now! Goldenseal is some good stuff! (tastes like dirt, looks like dirt, but man, it works!) But for double pneumonia, you should probably head to the hospital or something...

DOH! Set Requirements... No set requirements on Gunnison Vacations...

Well, I repeat: Weenie Roast, in the Rockies anyone?

Not unless there's a java joint nearby.

Don't think I could do duo - would have to become a trio - Me, God, and coffee...

Then again, maybe God could turn my water into coffee of I believed hard enough!

Those things do have some traction, I think. To love in this way could be described as "godly", or "divine". It certainly seems to be of a higher level than the normal things that run through our minds a lot of the time. But when we're at our best, as parents to our children, caretakers to our families, contributors to our communities - when we're doing it more than saying it, it's very attainable, very human, almost normal. Demanding, yes.

This statement makes a lot of sense to me. In being parents (good ones, not the abusive kind) and in taking care of our families is where we really see love in action. This is a self-sacrificing love, sometimes with very little in return (at least at some points.) I have heard many men say that they never really knew what love was until they had a child.

Welcome, Shifra! How do you like your coffee? I'll buy!

My story is at GSpot Radio and in the "My Story" section of the boards. So, I'll try to keep from boring others here.

I totally LOVE your story, Belle. You're the BOMB!

I just realized I didn't say what my situation was when I started this thing!

Sorry about that.

I was raised in twi from 12 or so on. I thought it was right and correct and everything else. First place I came to that actually read the Bible instead of talking around it. (Then again, I was 12, what the heck did I know?) My whole family became involved.

So, I thought this was the end all be all... And I continued to think this until a couple years back.

Nope, not the lawsuit - that didn't give me a clue (besides, I only thought it was a consenual affair and a "mistake" never knew it was a plural...)

Not so smart... Oh well...

Anyway... I think I started to realize what was happening when the teachings started to change in their style. Everything seemed to be read and forced... no individuality of the teacher involved. And everything was suddenly being taught straight out of the Blue Book. Seemed like if there had been such a sudden change, something was wrong.... it was either wrong previously, or it was wrong now.

<_<

So I started THINKING about stuff from before when LCM ran things and now... I compared the two and didn't just come to the conclusion that this was a "kinder, gentler" twi. I started seeing things that had been taught wrongly. The whole "all women belong to the king" crap was the start, because after the meeting we had to attend with the explanation of the lawsuit, that was the first thing one of the old timers said to justify LCM's actions. It didn't make sense to me at all... but then again, I thought I just needed to become more spiritual.

But later I really started to consider things and I saw a lot of holes. First, only in LCM's teachings - for instance the whole concept that you could become so strong in an area that the adversary would never be able to attack you there again. What a crock of poo! In that case, Jesus Christ never would have been attacked, right? And then I started thinking about Jesus Christ more and more and the things that were taught in twi and how they applied to him. And they didn't match logically. Like, if weakness always brings down strength, then how did Jesus Christ even begin to minister to ANYONE EVER?

As this train of thought kept going down its tracks, I started to examine other things we had been taught... One by one, it started to crumble, and I saw that the focus was not on God, Jesus Christ, or even on taking care of the believers. It all seemed to center around leadership, specifically the MOG.

The only conclusion I could come to was that something was definately not right... and then I started talking to people... and I started to realize that there had been more going on with the "MOG" that what we had been told.

And I started to get angry. I had sacrificed relationships and people to this IDOL that was twi. And twi didn't even have the balls to stand up and say what had really happened.

You think gospel music is devilish, but Metallica is ok.

(Don't get me wrong, I like a little Metallica now and then.)

Just curious...

How many of us here at GSC were people who were either raised in "the Word" or were people who only got involved during the reign of "He Who Shall Not Be Named But Has the Initials LCM"? And how about those who came in during the current administration?

Why did you leave in comparison to those who became involved during the reign of "He Who Drank Drambuie And Killed Coco"? (If you did.)

When did you begin to question things, and why?

I'm very curious to see if anyone else out there had similar experiences to me.

*edited due to mild bout of dyslexia

Don't kill me for this - I love animals. They're made from MEAT!

http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/asia/fi...00/rec0001.html

It's the first one I've found... enjoy.

1. You know (ginosko) the fear (respect) of the head table.

2. You know the consequences of leaking oil on your leaderships' driveway (I used to bring cardboard to avoid this situation.)

3. You actually think that Ohio is truly the most beautiful place on earth.

4. You have woken up to the song "Beautiful Ohio" and regretted ever thinking #3 before you "renewed your mind."

5. When you thought the solution to a bad day was just changing your mind.

6. You know what female WC haircut number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 look like. (You know what I'm talking about.)

7. You have suffered one of above mentioned haircuts.

8. You thought agape was only confined to the "household" of God.

9. You lived in an imaginary box called "Sanctified."

10. Everytime the phone rang and you heard your leadership's voice, you cringed.

So, that's how it was taught in VPW's class? Hmmmm, interesting.

In LCM's it was taught that a "dream" didn't really mean a "dream" but rather a "vision" that you had when you were awake and that God NEVER communicated to you while you slept.

Back to the daydreaming issue: I can understand the whole thing with not letting your mind wander all day long so that you really never know what is happening around you, and such, but it was carried to an extreme, much like the doctrines concerning dreams that you have while asleep.

If nothing else, the dreams you have while asleep would be worth examining just to know what you are dealing with on a subconscious level. If I had paid attention to that a little bit more, I think I might know myself a little bit better.

Oh, crap... That was toooooo funny, dmiller.

They need to get a clue. People die. Sometimes they are good people, sometimes they are bad. Sometimes the bad people live for a really long time when they deserve to bite it. Sometimes good people die before they should. This is just how it is. It's reality.

It just seems to me that not acknowledging the importance of this woman's life or death goes along with this whole idea that seems to permeate twi in the latter days that if we just don't mention the negative... if we are just POSITIVE ENOUGH, then all the bad stuff will just go away. Or, if you could just keep everything perfect all the time, then nothing bad could possibly happen, right?

Something stinks in "Zion" but no one wants to acknowledge it, either. They just pretend that LCM was never president. From what I understand, even the tapes on which he taught have been marked off limits to most people. Because if they can just wipe out the memory of the one bad thing they admitted happened, then it will all go away, right?

Jesus Chris exposed the Pharisees for what they were. He showed people what was wrong as well as showing them what was right. He ackowledged the negative, then changed the circumstances. But he spoke the truth.

He spoke the truth when he said "Lazarus is dead." He stated the truth, then he went about changing the circumstances Unless you see what has happened and state the facts, then how can you ever change those circumstances?

And the truth ain't always nice. In fact, sometimes it's downright foul.

*edited for biblical accuracy according to the KJV because I am up way toooo late... but after I changed it once, I realized I was rigth the first time... what the heck?

"It takes two to tango". Don't it?

I can be responsible for deciding to buy a carton of milk. The store's responsible to sell me a carton that's fresh and drinkable.

Thank you, Socks!

Chas - what that picture really needs is a verse underneath it so we could all know whether or not it's edifying to be an a55 hole.

On a completely separate note - I was thinking today (something I try to do more and more) about daydreaming... I remembered a day long long ago when I was involved in an outreach program in twi... I was very young, out on my own for the first time, and I suddenly realized that I was no longer letting my mind wander. I was so proud of myself. I was no longer daydreaming.

Until that point oh so many years ago, I had been a daydreamer, letting my thoughts go where they wanted, thinking about all knids of things. After going into that program, I realized that I had so many other things to think about that all circuits were engaged (I thought at the time) with the WORD. This only flies if THE WORD is comprised of making sure your bed is made, that you witness to your quota of unbelievers, that your song leading was correct (smiling, correct count on the song, sit up straight, make eye contact with everyone in the room, etc.), that I was getting in the correct amount of time in the "word" (I put in quotes because this was also comprised of tapes and ministry publications), making sure basically that I was perfect in every possible way.

Since I am not Mary Poppins, who is only practically perfect in every way, I found that this perfection I was trying to acheive really took a heck of a lot of work and brain time. And boy was I proud that I had managed to use up so much of my brain that I didn't have time to think about anything else.

After the program was finished, I remember being corrected by a leader never to wish anyone "sweet dreams" when they went to sleep, because if you were dreaming, then you were not controlling your mind properly, or you had unfinished business from your day. A believer who was in fellowship with God would not need to dream. SO, since I had already stopped daydreaming, I started trying to stop dreaming at night as well.

Didn't work. Man, did I condemn myself for that one for a while, before I realized that the statement was totally ridiculous after I did some reading about what functions dream serve. I figured this leader was probably wrestling with condemnation as well, but when I talked to them about it they said that we dream but shouldn't remember our dreams.

Anyone else out there ever heard this one?

Anyway, I'm getting back to dreaming more - day and night. My brain is becoming a much more pleasant place to be. I forgot how much fun you can have in your head, you know?

You found your calling Java Jane! ;)

I'm thinking of applying over at Letterman...

Glad to be of amusement!

You are an amazing woman to still be sane and in love with God after all of that.

Hugs to you, eyes!

I am still in love with God... I think that's because I loved Him before I ever met twi. I'm learning to know Him better now, and I am very thankful for that.

but I am definately not sane.