Larry N Moore

Prior to me asking the question I had already seen the info in the links you provided. They (as well as others) weren't very helpful and so I (perhaps mistakenly) thought someone here could help me out. I'm not demanding anyone should. It was just a simple request with no hidden agenda behind it to debate the topic. Nothing, that I'm aware of. Like I said -- I wasn't interested in discussing the book here. I want what I asked for. If no one here knows where I might find such info then so be it. It's really no big deal but, it seems to me that my having the audacity to even ask the question is a big deal to others. Look. It's very simple. If you don't know of where I might find the info I requested then you don't need to respond to the question. I don't know what it is about the question that is bothering some of you. If I had asked you if anyone knew where I might find a critical examination on VP's doctrinal teachings would you tell me where I might find it or make it an issue of me even asking the question? A rum and coke would be nice. :)

Sometimes. :) I asked a simple question. If I knew it would get such a response I wouldn't have. Somehow I was under the mistaken notion that this was the place to come to get info about TWI. Not only about what they did, but what they taught and said. I can question your motives all I want. If I'm mistaken, you can correct me all you want. Fair? I don't want to talk about doctrine. If this forum isn't the appropriate forum to ask such questions then an Admin can move it to a more appropriate one. Read my lips. I'm not interested in debating, defending or otherwise LCM's book. I just want to know if someone here has come across any critical examination of it that I can LOOK at.

Yes, I have a copy. And yes (if I were to re-examine it) I can make my own conclusions. However, it's always helpful to get the opinions of others, wouldn't you agree? If not, I would wonder why you and many others are doing here.

Be that as it may, I'm able to find many critical examinations of most of VP's teachings on the web (this one being an example). And most of those are done to show how those teachings don't approach scholarly ability. I don't see why my bringing this subject up should solicit "smartass" replies. I'm not interested in defending LCM or his book. I just asked a simple question which I assumed someone here could answer. If my asking causes you to have an aggressive response -- so be it. I'm sure the topic won't cause too much of a ripple in this sea of tranquility we're floating on.

Ya know Kit, I've participated on numerous discussion boards where an editing feature is not available. Personally I think it's a wonderful feature. ;) I've seen many critical examinations of the various beliefs emanating from TWI. One of the foundations of its beliefs stem from its view of the Book of Acts of which LCM extensively explained in the book. I think, no matter what our personal opinion might be, the book had somewhat of an impact on formulating TWI members thinking. It probably won't interest most people to read an critical examination of the book but I just thought if anyone knew if such was taken this would be the place to ask.

I've been searching the Web in an attempt to find a critical examination of LCM's book "Rise & Expansion of the Church in the First Century". Anyone know where I might find an extensive look at this book?

That's one I didn't hear said. Usually the line was something about the devil trying to talk you out of it.

Oh my gosh! That reminds me of a time when they were serving liver for dinner. I think there were about eight at the table. Anyways, I hate liver and refused to eat it. Noting I wasn't eating the main dish the Host asked me why and I simply told him I didn't like liver. He then proceeded to educate me -- and I politely heard him out -- on the benefits of liver. When he had finished giving me this long drawn out discourse on it I simply looked at him -- with my eyes as wide as I could manage -- and said: "So, what you're telling me is that liver will make me sh1t better, is that right?" I think his eyes got bigger than mine (and so did a lot of others sitting at the table).

No, my dear, you answered quite eloquently and honestly the one I did have and I appreciate it very much. We're not that far apart. P.S. But if I do think of something else, I'll be sure to get back with ya.

Eyesopen -- Do you remember why you loved it so much?

Another spot -- if it didn't I wouldn't give it much thought. Which means you made some very good points to consider.

Hey BillyD! Your thoughts on the matter, imo, came across as well reasoned out -- or balanced. Trust is a very difficult thing to re-establish once it's shattered. I suppose it helps if you try to put yourself on the other side -- meaning if you were the one who did or said something that put a stumbling stone between yourself and another. I would certainly want someone to trust me again (if I was truly sorry) but, I understand it will take time to build that trusting relationship again. Maybe that's why patience is a fruit of the spirit. We need it. I've enjoyed reading some of the material coming from CES. Hope they can work things out.

Another spot, I've been reading and re-reading the verses you cited and the one that keeps standing out for me is verse 23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." When Jesus said they (the Pharisees) were "from beneath" surely that had to be a figure of speech rather than a literal fact. If this is true -- that saying they were "from beneath" wasn't literally true, then why wouldn't it follow that, when he said "I am from above" would likewise be a figure of speech rather than a literal fact?

Yeah, you're right. It wasn't called for on my part. My bad.

another spot -- those are some excellent verses to consider. I'll give them some thought and respond as best as I can later. Getting ready to go earn some money to pay for the privilege of even having an online discussion.

Can you refresh my memory? What verses did you have in mind? And if you don't mind, would you share what you think they mean and how you arrived at that meaning.

You mean there's a better way?

Yeah, that's a good point. And if by chance the book doesn't come up to your expectation -- look on the bright side -- you just purchased some very expensive toilet paper (you would assume for $98 the paper would at least be of high quality).

Now, now don't you concern yourself. It'll be alright. If I can remember what the topic was. Somehow it doesn't seem right to use nuts and eggs in the same sentence. They just don't go together. but who cares.

Well, be that as it may, I would wonder why God wasn't speaking to you prior to getting in telling you: "STAY OUT! STAY OUT!"

I thought I read somewhere that he was closing down his ministry. Can't remember why other than I vaguely recall there being some internal conflict or a legal issue. Something about stealing the PFAL class material.

Well, we share that pov. There was something about telling people that they should follow this rule or that rule that didn't sit well with me. What was that saying?: "I'd rather see a sermon than to hear one." Btw -- Is Geer still in business?

Oh that! Actually I've read that document (POP) long ago and it's one of many that I have stored on my computer for reference. I was in meetings with RD and JL when the issue first came up. I agree with you that it's a good practice to do some reading before posting. It's not a bad idea but, I personally wouldn't spend a month doing so. My bad.

Hmm . . . well ok then. Happy Birthday to all you non-members who may be celebrating their birthday today but, choose not to register to acknowledge it.

By golly I think you're right! But the self-generated ones are amusing and they change often enuf to keep my interest. Besides, I'm too lazy to bother with coming up with one of my own.