penworks

Good morning, GreaseSpotters! This is Charlene chiming in thank Rocky for posting this link to what is in fact my FINAL public talk. For what I say about that:

Visit: Charlene's Last Public Cult Talk | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)

I'm here also to thank Pawtucket for risking so much, giving so much, putting up with so much as he's hosted this venue for so many years. Aren't we lucky we can meet here to share our stories, get info, and offer each other support! 

Cheers to you, brave ones!

Ever think about how being regularly faced with symbols in TWI like the old official logo of a globe with PFAL written on it, and hearing slogans such as "The Word over the World" and "The accuracy of God's Word" over and over and over ... helped VPW gain power over us? I have.

A few years ago, I thought about this so much that I submitted it as a topic for a paper I could present at an annual cultic studies conference sponsored by ICSA (mentioned above): their international conference, 2017, in Bordeaux, France. They accepted it, and I delivered it.

After my session, you can be sure I totally enjoyed a wine tour through the countryside with my husband :-)

To read my paper, "Breaking the Power of Cult Symbols" click here.

Cheers.

Twinky, yes, I hope they get help, too, and I think the International Cultic Studies Association can help. I cite that organization in my blog post (linked above) because the author of the article is Michael Langone, PhD, the Executive Director. I know him and have worked with him at conferences, etc. His endorsement of Undertow is on the back cover.

Also, for anyone wondering about Undertow:

Get the first chapter of my award-winning cult memoir, Undertow, for FREE on my website. Go to the Home page, look for "FREE" and click the link, Chapter 1, "Hiding in Plain Sight." Happy Monday! https//charleneedge.com/

Hi GreaseSpotters,

 Hope you are doing well!

Just a note to let you know my blog post today is a special report on QAnon and whether it is a cult. The research was done by a long-time cult researcher, author, and counselor. 

To read it, click here.

On the eve of this momentous election day, I am having flashbacks to life in a cult that demanded loyalty to one man's perverted view of the world. After 17 years in it, I finally woke up and figured out a way to escape.

My memoir of that experience is still on special sale for only $17 until Dec. 31, 2020. It includes some real names of leaders many of you knew, especially around the time of the Passing of the Patriarch in 1986. As a member of the biblical research team at that time, I witnessed what got swept under the carpet.

For an insider's story of how a person is slowly pulled into a damaging world view without realizing it, give the book Undertow a chance. Visit https://charleneedge.com/undertow-on-sale-signed-copies/

I want to thank so many of you Greasespotters for having supported Undertow by reading it and sharing it. This month, we celebrate its 4th birthday!

Cheers. Stay safe and carry on!

Hi Grease spotters,

  Happy to say I can offer, while supplies last, signed copies of Undertow at a student discount of $17.00. Read more here.

Stay well. Wear masks. And may your tribe increase!

Charlene

I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name.

Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.

Beguiled, I hope you find comfort here amongst many of us who know and understand the truth of what you're saying. Thank you for trusting the goodwill of GSC folks to open your heart like you did. It grieves me to learn what happened to you. And saddens me that your family rejects you to cling to TWI. Empathy is not the easiest thing to convey in an online post, but you can be sure you have it coming from me.

Wishing you the best with your new child and creating a life of love and joy!

As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words.

It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this).

Consider this, Vern:  Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to."

In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? 

This is just my opinion, but since The Way's "bedrock of biblical research" has been found to be full of holes, plagiarism, and Scriptural abuse, doesn't that sinking ship make the organization of The Way without a purpose?

If I were Vern, as far as the organization goes, I'd disband it.

Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991.

In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.

This situation is beyond terrible. Shame on the silent ones who fail to warn about any abusive Way offshoots like that one was.

In 2016 I wrote a blog about Barnard's arrest. Recently I updated that blog to honor Jess.

https://charleneedge.com/update-rape-victims-demolish-cult-of-way-corps-graduate-victor-barnard/

Hi, Skyrider. I appreciate the kind words and best to you and yours, as well.

A big thank you to readers of Undertow. Many thanks for taking time to do it!

And thanks to Pawtucket for keeping GSC open all these years …

Cheers.

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009.

Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who wants to put themselves out there for criticism and hate mail, which I get now and then. But I knew that going into what I did ... publishing my story in a book.

Wake up people, Wierwille set this whole thing in motion from day one. It was never "pure" but got corrupted later on. He was out to set himself up as "the answer man."

PLEEEAASE.

Sigh.

I agree with Socks regarding this, as I was an eye-witness, like Socks, to the manner in which VPW conducted himself and ran the organization:

" … I don't subscribe to the theory that "the Way was fine until Martindale/Geer/Finnegan/Whoever screwed everything up".......His main guys all learned from him and acted in complete alignment with his wishes."  

I can't imagine anyone listening to hours of tapes to find it tucked in a teaching. I have no audiotapes of VPW. Does anyone here have tapes and time to find the snow story?

On 1/7/2020 at 5:30 PM, penworks said:

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. 

Thanks.

I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

Just to be clear, I am looking for a TAPED account of his telling this story. With his voice recorded doing it. I have the book, TWLIL, which has it in print.

I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class, but I haven't found it available anywhere.

Thanks!

Oldiesman, you're welcome!

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. 

Thanks.

I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

Welcome, Zanezim,

   I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did.

I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time.

Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! 

Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC.

Penworks

Quote

From Skyrider: "Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine."  If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982]." 

Penworks: Just a small correction: Charl*e Quill#n was working at HQ on "Bless Patrol" while I was on staff 84-87. He didn't "split out on his own" until sometime after I escaped in 87. Wierwille died in 85, so VPW never knew Quill#n split.

 

On 7/5/2019 at 9:13 AM, Lifted Up said:

Thank you. I remember hearing this talked about on GS years ago but I was still waybrained at that time and had not yet recalled my own loosening up, not by my choice. It explained why some Way women went along with VPW's sexual "doctrine" and were glad to serve the "man of God", or help loosen up other leaders, even low level ones like me. Charlene Edge in "Undertow" writes of how she got testimony of how some women went along even as others wee being badly hurt.                                                                                                

Hi, this is Charlene Edge who wrote Undertow. Yes, it is true that I included some information on this topic in my book. For a first-hand account from one of VPW's "girls," I always refer people to Kristen Skedgell's memoir, Losing The Way. Also, other women spoke out in another book, by Karl Kahler, called The Cult that Snapped: A Journey Inside The Way International.

Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!) by Hector Avalos, PhD.  Prometheus Books. 2007.

Just sayin … there is an alternative viewpoint for those interested in questioning the value of continuing to hammer away at biblical texts in hopes of recreating "the original." Even if we did reach that goal, what would we have? A text that still contains contradictions (four different viewpoints in the 4 gospels), violence against "unbelievers," in the Hebrew Bible, condemnation of homosexuals, subjugation of women, etc.

Just sayin … let's take a look at bibliolatry and get honest about that. Perhaps this is a topic for the Doctrinal thread. Sigh … 

Raf, when you asked for examples unique to TWI, I thought of the section at the end of Karl Kahler's book, The Cult That Snapped. It begins on page 275. Wayspeak: A Glossary. He has 6 pages full of terms you could check. If you don't have a copy of the book, let me know.

An example would be "undershepherding" meaning "following up on witnessing by pastoring a new person." Also "cop-outs" - former members of The Way.

Also, here are a few things, some are phrases I think are unique to TWI usage, maybe not … but when I use them when speaking to outsiders about The Way, I find myself having to  translate what they mean.

1. advances meant retreats. VPW said we don't retreat from anything, we advance in God's Word. Churches use the word retreat for weekend immersions of fellowship and teachings, but TWI had to be different than churches, even in naming this sort of event.

2. lift - meant offer something or someone in prayer. I remember the first time I heard this it sounded so strange. Lift?

3. witnessing - meant evangelizing, not seeing something happen.

4. off the Word - meant not obeying Way teachings.

5. Karl had this one in his Glossary, too. Wierwille was "our father in the Word" - at least in the Corps, we called him that because we likened him to the apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 4:15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

DWBH wrote: "I’ve never really investigated how the thing was received by the biblical research and textual criticism folks at the academic and university levels. I wonder if anyone outside TWIt or the splinters and offshoots even uses it?? Anyone know?"

I recall that the Society of Biblical Literature knew the concordance was published in 1985 because some of the guys on the research team had been attending SBL meetings and talking about it to SBL members over the years. I do not know how it was actually received by those academics, or whether it is used by anyone today, including anyone at TWI HQ or in offshoots. Wish I could be more helpful.

P.S. Rocky posted in the Doctrinal section a link to another video Juedes made about TWI's Aramaic project, which I worked on in part. 

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