penworks
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Seems to me there's no end to this rabbit hole. While I was in the research department at Way HQ (long ago and far away) there was an attempt by some members of it to study the history of the text in more depth. Walter C*mmins initiated this. When Geer showed up and challenged LCM, that project backfired. The endeavor raised too many uncomfortable questions that, to those who admitted it, revealed the fact that VPW's legacy of fundamentalism (he was already dead by this time) was incapable of allowing honest inquiry into textual or historical Scriptural research. I witnessed this situation and write it in the latter part of Undertow.
After I got out of TWI, I spent some time sorting out my evolving thoughts about the Bible and what it is. I came across lots of sources in the good old public library and college libraries. This was the late 1980s and 1990s when people actually browsed around in brick-and-mortar libraries to see what they might discover on the shelves. I later found scholarly works online.
For this thread, I'll just offer three sources that were helpful to me. But I realize my interests are unique, not for everyone. For those interested, here you go. I'm not promoting Amazon as THE place to buy these books, I only include links to Amazon to give information about the books.
Wide as the Waters: The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution it Inspired by Benson Bobrick. 2001. Wide As the Waters: The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution: Bobrick, Benson: 9781451613605: Amazon.com: Books.
The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament by Bart. D. Ehrman. 1993.
I think Ehrman is the finest, most accessible scholar today working in historical research regarding texts.
This last one was eye-opening to say the least.
The End of Biblical Studies by Hector Avalos. 2007. The End of Biblical Studies - Kindle edition by Avalos, Hector. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
These days I'm happier out of the biblical research rabbit hole.
I read lots of fiction and poetry and even write some of it myself.
Peace,
Charlene
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2 hours ago, Lifted Up said:
Do you feel that in many ways we were treated as children in the Way?
Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: Wierwille called us Way Corps members his "kids." This habit was deliberate on his part.
Obedience was a primary goal of Wierwille's... he touted God as asking us to obey "His Word." Obey, obey, obey. That's what parents ask children to do.
Infantile people do not question authority. They obey it.
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Hi folks,
First, an update on how Undertow is still going strong since its publication five years ago (and a little more).
It's been sold around the USA, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Australia, Germany, and who knows where else through Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and The Book Depository, which offers free world-wide shipping.
As of 12/31/21, there were 1,475 copies (incudes paperback and ebook) that had been sold.
So, I send a big thank you to Greasespotters for helping me get that story out. It's two stories in one, as Frank Schaffer described it on the front cover of Undertow. The two stories are: my personal one, and one about The Way organization that shows the devious Wierwille at work, up-close.
TODAY cults are still in the news. Diane Sawyer did a special program that aired last night about Heavens' Gate. Here's a link to info: In Exclusive Interview, Former Cult Member Reveals She 'Never Stepped Foot Out the Door' | PEOPLE.com
So, more people are asking questions about cults. I know you can tell them some good answers.
BTW - some grown up kids of my former Way peers have been contacting me lately, thanking me for Undertow that gives them important and healing info their parents do not or cannot tell them. They are thankful. Some are mad. More voices may be coming here with stories of abusive Way leaders, but also of wonderful recoveries from the darkness of The Way. I'm humbled Undertow has helped them on their journeys.
Stay strong.
Charlene
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On 12/16/2021 at 4:23 AM, socks said:
Some of them were pretty good at hiding it too and lying about it. Not Kris, specifically but there are others who today want to holler back to the hooting' an' tootin' they did then and act as if they didn't get anything in return - I'm not one to name names of people that could be harmed by it and I don't act where I don't have or want permission to - but - the fact is there were both men and women who were as opportunistic as VPW - and if you got caught in their web of bull sh it they were good at hanging you out to dry behind their curtain of deceit. But some of those that came and went and some who stayed got exactly what they wanted out of it.
I came into the Way Corps and working there with a past I was trying to put behind me and grow out of. People often mistook that for innocence. I won't pretend I was some kind of a bad bad man in my day but I'd been around the block already more than once. I had met people like Del D before any of us were ever exposed to PFAL, and I was happy to give a start over to anyone who wanted it - and after a few years post PFAL I wanted to put certain things behind me - I was far from being perfect but I just wanted to build on certain things and it didn't include extra marital sex and the use of drugs, like pot and heavy drinking.
Which made me a "square" to some people, and not to be trusted.
Fukk them. In their graves or wherever they're swilling their bs today - just fukk that and them, twice over. Manipulators who lied and hid what they were doing. No wonder VPW liked them, he knew kindred souls when he saw them. You can use people to your own advantage that are that stupid.Yes, they (VPW's "girls") hid the fact that they slept with him or rather interpreted their liaison with VPW as "serving the man of God," which really means they slept with him because he intimidated them into doing it, preying on their sympathy. Or did they get brainwashed into believing they were "helping" him? I know some who would answer YES to that question.
I recall a meeting in the fireplace room of VPW's house, which was the basement. It was sometime in 1976 or 1977, during the year I was separated from my then husband who left me there in Nov. 1976. There was a third Corps person who wanted to divorce his wife. VPW, in his chair alongside the fireplace, Drambouie in hand, confronted that person about divorce, stating that his (VPW's) situation served as an example of "staying together no matter what." He said that even though Mrs. Wierwille had had a hysterectomy which debiltated her from enjoying sex, he stayed with her. That was commitment. I did not want to know this. He foisted this information upon us whether or not we wanted to know the intimate details of his marriage.
In hindsight, I realize that telling us this was possibly his ploy to gain our sympathy. Perhaps, I think now, it was his effort to justify his extra marital affairs. But that's just my opinion. We'll never know for sure. I do know I felt VERRRRRY uncomfortable with his telling us this most personal information. Why would a man do that?
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For further help on recovery, I recommend: Take Back Your Life
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Thanks so much for posting this part of your life story, Raf. I'm grateful for it. It's a lovely way to share with us the complexity of your life, of all of our lives.
Charlene
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Skyrider,
Thank you for sharing your story in such detail. I admire that. The more background and insight about TWI that's presented here from eye-witnesses and thoughtful former members, the better.
Over the last five years since I published my memoir, Undertow (about my 17 years in TWI) not a few former members have contacted me to share their stories. They themselves can't speak out for various reasons, but they validated many things I wrote about in my book. It's up to those of us who can speak and write to sound the alarm.
Let's hope more brave former followers get up the gumption to share their TWI experiences, info about Wierwille's abuses, plagiarism, manipulation, and the resulting harm to so many which continues to this day, some of it through offshoots from the original Ohio-based organization.
Wishing you and everyone here at GSC a happy and safe holiday season.
Cheers,
Charlene L. Edge
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I just love nostalgia ... it's so cozy and comforting and ... oops ... other stuff that's not so great. In case you missed the article I wrote on this topic (posted here on GSC back in 2009), here you go. Enjoy.
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Plenty of former Wafers know that there "allegedly" were women in the early years of the "ministry" and then ones in The Way Corps who were Wierwille's "girls." He seduced them. One wrote her story about that in, Losing The Way. Others have told me themselves. This is not a new revelation on GSC.
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In 1971, I attended the first ROA and went to every one thereafter until boycotting the ones in 1986 and 87 while I was working at HQ and trying to figure out how to leave ...
I see this revival of ROA as a way of recruiting young folks like I was back then, who are oblivious to the twisted roots of TWI, Wierwille's plagiarism and abuse of power, especially concerning women (the alleged secret harem, etc. that I happen to know now was in existence), the patterns of manipulation beginning with Wierwille, used to perpetuate its warped agenda of controlling people to further the organization and, in my view, its sick ideology of bibliolatry, homophobia, and self-righteousness beneath the cloak of "loving people" but in fact only demanding their loyalty. There's more, but ...
As for nostalgia, I don't underestimate it in groups like this. It is powerful. But the target audience for this ROA is aged 18 - 35, or thereabouts, right? What are they nostaligic for? Not the "good old days," as far as I can tell. It's the current older "leadership" who are nostalgic and think this event will inject energetic new leaders/believers into its withering cause. Sigh. It might, but aren't people in this age range TODAY more attracted to social media, instant gratification, on and on? Are they willing to spend money on travel, housing, food, etc. for a week of ... what? Maybe. And just what are the goals they're supposed to shoot for if "The Word" is already prevailing (at least in some people's imagination). Maybe they'll just be looking for a good time meeting others their age and finding a future spouse or something. Good luck with monitoring what happens there, if monitoring is part of it. Seems like a lot of accidents waiting to happen in one way or another. Hope not, but human nature is ... well, human, no matter how many Bible verses you push into people's minds, no matter how many rock n roll bands sing on stage, no matter how much "sprituality" is talked about.
I shudder whenever I think about it. That's just me. Go ahead and call me Wet Blanket. I don't mind.
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On 10/27/2021 at 12:17 AM, Stayed Too Long said:
A good article showing different cults
Thanks for posting this. I added a comment there, too.
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On 9/17/2012 at 7:09 PM, penworks said:
Kept it for the future possibility of writing a book ....
... which, in 2017, was published as Undertow. :-)
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4 hours ago, skyrider said:
Yes......Lonnell Johnson, 5th corps, ordained clergy.
He exited twi in late 70s, early 80s.......and got his PhD. Smart. Successful. Strong Christian.
Lonnell was in the 2nd (Second) Corps with me. Facts matter.
Cheers!
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Hi GreaseSpotters,
This is Charlene checking in to say HI and let you know that you can read a FREE chapter of my memoir about being in the Way during the early 1970s and 1980s. I was on the biblical research team.
To read Chapter One, "Hiding in Plain Sight" click here.
A little about me:
I am Charlene Lamy Edge formerly known in The Way as Charlene Lamy then Charlene Bishop. I graduated from the second Way Corps in 1973.
My memoir, Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International was published November 21, 2016. It is available in paperback and eBook at major booksellers and independent bookstores. Paperback ISBN: 978-0-9978747-0-9.
In 1970, college students at ECU, who were grads of PFAL, recruited me to The Way. I gave The Way 17 years of my life.
From August 1984 to August 1986 I worked on the Biblical Research Team at Way headquarters in Ohio, specifically on the Aramaic Concordance project.
In 1987, I escaped from The Way headquarters with my family and disassociated myself from the organization for good.
MY WEBSITE: https://charleneedge.com
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Greetings. Over the years I've found important help/understanding/support from the International Cultic Studies Association.
Today, I republished on my blog what I think is a mainstay of checkpoints for understanding how a cult affects a person. See what you think. Agree with some aspects? Disagree? Find helpful?
Check it out at https://charleneedge.com/the-3-d-cult-experience/
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Good morning, GreaseSpotters! This is Charlene chiming in thank Rocky for posting this link to what is in fact my FINAL public talk. For what I say about that:
Visit: Charlene's Last Public Cult Talk | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)
I'm here also to thank Pawtucket for risking so much, giving so much, putting up with so much as he's hosted this venue for so many years. Aren't we lucky we can meet here to share our stories, get info, and offer each other support!
Cheers to you, brave ones!
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Ever think about how being regularly faced with symbols in TWI like the old official logo of a globe with PFAL written on it, and hearing slogans such as "The Word over the World" and "The accuracy of God's Word" over and over and over ... helped VPW gain power over us? I have.
A few years ago, I thought about this so much that I submitted it as a topic for a paper I could present at an annual cultic studies conference sponsored by ICSA (mentioned above): their international conference, 2017, in Bordeaux, France. They accepted it, and I delivered it.
After my session, you can be sure I totally enjoyed a wine tour through the countryside with my husband :-)
To read my paper, "Breaking the Power of Cult Symbols" click here.
Cheers.
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Twinky, yes, I hope they get help, too, and I think the International Cultic Studies Association can help. I cite that organization in my blog post (linked above) because the author of the article is Michael Langone, PhD, the Executive Director. I know him and have worked with him at conferences, etc. His endorsement of Undertow is on the back cover.
Also, for anyone wondering about Undertow:
Get the first chapter of my award-winning cult memoir, Undertow, for FREE on my website. Go to the Home page, look for "FREE" and click the link, Chapter 1, "Hiding in Plain Sight." Happy Monday! https//charleneedge.com/
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Hi GreaseSpotters,
Hope you are doing well!
Just a note to let you know my blog post today is a special report on QAnon and whether it is a cult. The research was done by a long-time cult researcher, author, and counselor.
To read it, click here.
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On the eve of this momentous election day, I am having flashbacks to life in a cult that demanded loyalty to one man's perverted view of the world. After 17 years in it, I finally woke up and figured out a way to escape.
My memoir of that experience is still on special sale for only $17 until Dec. 31, 2020. It includes some real names of leaders many of you knew, especially around the time of the Passing of the Patriarch in 1986. As a member of the biblical research team at that time, I witnessed what got swept under the carpet.
For an insider's story of how a person is slowly pulled into a damaging world view without realizing it, give the book Undertow a chance. Visit https://charleneedge.com/undertow-on-sale-signed-copies/
I want to thank so many of you Greasespotters for having supported Undertow by reading it and sharing it. This month, we celebrate its 4th birthday!
Cheers. Stay safe and carry on!
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Hi Grease spotters,
Happy to say I can offer, while supplies last, signed copies of Undertow at a student discount of $17.00. Read more here.
Stay well. Wear masks. And may your tribe increase!
Charlene
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I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name.
Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.
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Beguiled, I hope you find comfort here amongst many of us who know and understand the truth of what you're saying. Thank you for trusting the goodwill of GSC folks to open your heart like you did. It grieves me to learn what happened to you. And saddens me that your family rejects you to cling to TWI. Empathy is not the easiest thing to convey in an online post, but you can be sure you have it coming from me.
Wishing you the best with your new child and creating a life of love and joy!
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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words.
It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this).
Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to."
In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way?
This is just my opinion, but since The Way's "bedrock of biblical research" has been found to be full of holes, plagiarism, and Scriptural abuse, doesn't that sinking ship make the organization of The Way without a purpose?
If I were Vern, as far as the organization goes, I'd disband it.
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Biblical Research
in About The Way
Posted
The rabbits built themselves a new house as they were fed up with the hole thing.