penworks

I found them. Please disregard this request now.

Thanks!

I like your channel analogy.

I agree that in 1975 there was a lot going on, and I'll just add a little more background to your comment: "IMO......The Way Channel started expanding its market and, more agressively, separated from other Christian work in 1975."

While I was in the Corps in 1971 - 73, VP conducted The Way Presents in an attempt to immitate Billy Graham's crusades, I think. Anyway, it was a big move for more national attention and we, as Corps, had to get out there and sign people up for PFAL following VP's teaching at the event. So in one way of looking at it, he was trying to expand his market even then and especially so after the first Corps graduated in 1972 and carried "the heart of the ministry" to a few major states, pushing all his programs and running big meetings for VP.

I do remember VP using tapes of other people "healing" so-called possessed individuals, for instance, during the advanced class. But after we heard the tapes, he would give a critique of those ministers, finding them "off" in some way or another. To me, this indicated that VP knew a better way, a more accurate knowledge of the subject. He was more spiritual than those other poor ministers who were trying to do good but just didn't have the greatness of the Word to guide them like we did in our ministry. From the rhetoric I heard during my Corps training, I'd say he always hyped his ministry as being the only one teaching the accuracy of the Bible. And so often, he neglected to give credit to sources he used for his information (to put it mildly)...

I found him. Thanks to all for their help in the search!

"But she blessed a lot of people in STL and probably elsewhere. Is all that just meaningless now?"

Regarding the thinking reflected in the sentence above: IMO this is a good example of the black and white thinking Tex and others have pointed out as a characteristic of TWI. It's a characteristic of most fundamentalist groups.

I think the answer is not a simple yes or no. Just because I left TWI and now consider, as Tex does, that mind control was implemented in my indoctrination, doesn't negate the good hearted kindness I extended to people, IMO.

I look back and would like to think most of my actions came from a good heart, that I was trying to do something helpful for others and sometimes I actually DID do something helpful...but often because I was misinformed about what would be the best kind of advice to give, I may have caused more damage than healing in people's lives, i.e. by telling them to renew their minds instead of referring them to a professional counselor. Those instances are my regrets.

Meaning is a big philosophical topic, but in a word, and IMO, the answer is No, the kindnesses were not meaningless. You value the "good", leave the "bad." Determining what was the good and what was the bad is our ongoing challenge and needs to be evaluated carefully and not with a blanket generalization.

It's hard to imagine anyone could be more full of baloney than what you've presented here... but it's obvious you have no idea what the difference is between the words 'legal' and 'political'.

You use the word IF several times. THAT particular conditional word, applied to THIS situation, actually proves my point. For your use of the word IF becomes a segue into a DIFFERENT investigation by a DIFFERENT agency in a DIFFERENT branch of government.

As the situation currently exists, the investigation is in, of, and by CONGRESS. Congress can do NO prosecuting. The IRS, on the other hand, yes, is NOT a judicial branch agency. Executive branch agencies ENFORCE LAWS (which are made in CONGRESS, which laws are the result of a POLITICAL process).

Therefore, IF the IRS gets involved, it THEN and then only WOULD become a legal question. But as no judicial action has been taken by any executive branch agency, nor has any enforcement action been taken by any executive branch agency, there is, as yet, NO legal question nor dimension to this matter.

Your situation, by which you constructed your insane argument that this is a legal investigation, until someone (agency) gets involved OTHER THAN Congress, is completely IMAGINARY. Another word for the product of one's imagination is FANTASY.

Therefore, your claim that this matter is a legal one is strictly your fantasy. Until then, it remains very much a REAL political issue, matter, question.

btw, "DUDE", Grassley is NOT an agent or member of any entity related to either the executive or judicial branches of ANY government. But he IS a Member of Congress (properly capitalized, btw). As such, his investigation can and is PROPERLY characterized as CONGRESSIONAL... albeit, informal.

That it IS informal only further underscores the POLITICAL nature of his investigation... while further removing it from the realm of being a legal matter.

And btw... your accusations regarding my "argument" are absurd. I made NO argument in the post addressing you previous to your most recent response. I posed questions to you. You did a grand job of failing to answer those questions, however.

I appreciate the education you're providing here. It's easy to see it is a political investigation when it's conducted by a member of Congress...a previous post I made stands corrected.

Cheers!

penworks

Tex,

I'm sooo sorry about your losing your mother - that is a heavy blow! And now a broken ankle to deal with. I trust you'll heal well - take good care of yourself.

IMO your blog is educational yet personal and I for one appreciate the care with which you present your story. Today I'm preordering your book!

Best wishes to you and your family for a happy new year!

Love,

penworks

http://losingtheway.blogspot.com

Thanks for the blog link. That about sums it all up!

Yes, I believe it's a legal issue regarding finances (has their non-profit status been abused?) that's why a Senator on the Finance Committee is investigating it.

I send my deepest sympathies to her family, especially Steve, whom I met in CA long ago. If he ever posts here, I hope he would send me a PM. Florence was a wonderful woman, full of graciousness and generosity.

penworks

Welcome to the Cafe, Tex! Glad to have you here, some of us have been "out" for about 20 years, too, so you may run into old friends. I for one am very excited about your upcoming book, so let us know when it's available!

You're a courageous person and an inspiriation! I can imagine it's been a long road but a very worthwhile one writing your story.

Enjoy your holidays and stay well !

Happy Birthday, Rocky. Hope you see this before midnight. Anyhow, have a super year and enjoy the books on that reading list you recently commented on...

Take care and don't forget to order Christian's book; it was released today on his site!

Stay well!

If you slept in an assigned bunkbed in a trailer...er, mobile home...for two years straight, with four more bunkbeds lined up in a row next to yours and they all had matching blue plaid bedspreads...

you VERY likely were in a cult.

I love his web site, agree he's a very talented writer, and have been in communication with him, also. It's great to see the support he has here on GSC!

Belle - It took courage to do what most of us here did: break off the association with an influence that was not good for us. It was a huge upheaval and took its toll in many ways, depending on our individual constitutions. Currently, I'm reading a book called Battle for the Mind - A Physiology of Conversion and Brain-Washing (How Evangelists, Psychiatrists, Politicians, and Medicine Men can change your beliefs and behavior by William Sargant. This, along with MANY other such books and information about fundamentalism, etc. have helped me understand the complex nature of what we were involved with and how leaving it affects us.

Trust yourself. You very likely did the best you could given the circumstances...remember no one can perfectly navigate difficult situations.

It's Thanksgiving...have an extra slice of pie and a good belly laugh. Both are good medicine for the soul.

Cheers!

Does anyone know whether Bernita Jess is still living? If so, how can she be reached? Jim Jess, her son, is a Corps grad, I'm not sure about Sharon, her daughter.

Hi Penworks.

It's been quite a few years since I've heard from Jeff, maybe 6? but he and Joan are living in Colorado. I don't remember the town, but it seems like it's near CO Springs. And yes you spelled his name correctly. If it helps, his middle name is Paul.

Thanks very much!

I'd like to find Jeff Schmidt (I think that's spelled correctly). He was a counselor at Childrens Camp around 1985 I think. He later married a woman named Joan. Are you here, Jeff? Does anyone know how to reach him?

I hope to find Mike and Arlene Westphal from Florida. They entered the Family Corps in either 1986 or 1987 but I don't know if they graduated or stayed with TWI or what. They had about 4 children then. I was in Florida in the 80s when they were there and would like to contact them.

Ray and/or Fran, if you're here, please PM me. I used to live in your area of Florida. I left TWI 20 years ago. Hope you are OK.

I appreciate the validation and insights from so many other people here! If I write just one thing on this site that is helpful to anyone, it's worth my time and effort here.

When I left TWI in 1987 I felt VERY alone. I WAS very alone. Only a handful of others I knew would still talk to me, and that was because they'd left then, too. But we were scattered across the country. So I turned to education and journaling to help me recover my former identity. That process continues to this day. To have been told "just get over it" when I left TWI would have done a great disservice to me because I would have felt my voice was once again silenced. I would also have missed the adventure of studying my life for its lessons. It took a long time to process 17 years of a highly complex experience...I believe I'm still processing parts of it even now, 20 years later.

I do want to stress that what I write at GSC is my opinion ONLY and my reflections on my experiences. Nothing I say is intended to slander or libel anyone or slam anyone's beliefs. I distinguish between beliefs and the process by which a person is made to accept them. [more on that topic is found in Steve Hassen's book] Just my 2 cents...

Man, that's just spooky!

I can still hear and see him saying those exact words as he dramatically fumbled with his glasses or notes or something.

What class was that in? I know he probably said it on numerous occasions, but I'm thinking of a specific class.

Here's the really creepy thing--------Someone on the outside could look at that and say," What's wrong with that? It's true."( or at least Biblical)

But what they don't understand is that he used it in a context that demanded we pledge allegiance to the cult because our feelings were insignificant in the big picture of "Word Over The World".

There are so many, many things that might appear innocuous to an outsider that conveyed a unique meaning to the intended audience.(us)

I don't remember which class I heard that in, only that I heard it numerous times from VP and others (and I probably taught it myself at some point) during my 17 years involvement. IMO, this phrase is akin to "You have no friends when it comes to The Word."

To me it meant I couldn't count on my feelings to be anything of value, especially in decision making or trying to make friends. I understand what you mean about how the phrase may appear to an "outsider" to be "good" but I think they would need to 1) believe that a person could accurately apply verses (usually out of context) to any given situation 2) that gut feelings or intuitions or whatever you might call them are not important and don't carry weight in decision making.

IMO, for my life in TWI, there were many times I should have followed how I felt about something rather than sticking a "positive" verse in my mind or doing what VP said because I believed he was walking with God. Since I accepted the claim that TWI was THE ministry for this day and time, I interpreted my whole life in those terms, whereas had I opened my mind, I could've had a more inclusive attitude towards others (understatement).

For instance, VPW's teaching about turning your back on believers who reject the truth (what he was really referring to IMO was his interpretation of the Bible) meant I should cut off any communication with people who didn't get involved in or left TWI, while in my "gut" I felt I wanted to get their side of the story, not shun them. In such a case, my feelings didn't matter, only the Word as defined by VPW did. This phrase also cultivated the attitude in me that my opinions didn't matter, only what the Bible said or what VP said or another leader in "charge of" me said. Maybe it was just me, but I suspect others experienced this, too.

More directly on topic now, I'll say that I caution myself against telling others what to do like "get over it" since I'm far from being a trained psychologist or counselor. We're all on a very unique path and need different things. In checking out books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassen, I did find a section on Emotional Control, pg. 63, 64 that is helpful, "In order to control someone through his or her emotions, feelings often have to be redefined." WOW!

In order to deny my feelings of wanting to talk with people who didn't believe as I did, I had to convince myself I was doing the right thing according to TWI teachings no matter how I felt. I learned not to trust my emotions. Thankfully, I've undone that indoctrination, but it took awhile to relearn to feel.

Nero, you did just fine.

The *just get over it crowd* are simply parroting what we were taught in twi.

I was talking with someone last night, and was reminded how we were taught to be such cold heartless jerks.

We were taught that emotions were 5 senses, things that could trick us into ignoring God. Emotions could be a tool of satan to lure us away.

To display anything other than a carefully neutral demeanor or a simpering smile was viewed with dissaproval. It must have been terribly difficult for a child.

We had this programed into us to the point that people became uncomfortable with emotions period...any display, was threatening ...

I remember too well.....your grandpa died...oh well ...your dog died last week...oh well that is in the past...why are you dwelling on it...husband dropped you to the floor in a drunken rage, forgive him, it`s in the past....why would you not move on???

The incidents given above all happened in the ensuing years AFTER leaving twi.

I think that expression of rightious anger over the mistreatment....Grief over the abuses coming to light...the shame of finding out that we were decieved...

All of these emotions can make people uncomfortable. I seriously doubt some folks know why they get so irritated with posters who are finally unplugging the stopper on the emotions that we bottled up for decades.

Being allowed to feel, to express ones self is just one of those areas that so many of us need healing in, post twi.

Very well put, Rascal! Yes, it was drilled into us that "feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever" which IMO means that I had to turn off genuine, human responses which for the most part were appropriate, and turn on the switch that recited a Bible verse to "control" my mind with, thereby negating the emotion.

This bred confusion, frustration, coldness, and arrogance. I regret very much having succumbed to that. Thankfully, a person can change that way of being. Thankfully, simple kindness and patience with oneself and others mends the soul...it did mine.

Penworks, I really appreciate your sharing, its great to hear the perpectives of the very early TWI folk and corps people.

I remember you guys - your corps. I was in high school and VP would send your corps to Columbus. Many of you stayed at my house. Everyone loved my little sister. I think I was too weird - no one knew what to make of me :)

Except, I remember it was a Friday or Sat. night around 1 or 2 a.m. and I was watching roller derby ( don't all teenagers stay up late and sleep in 'till noon? Or was I the exception). Anyway, who comes out but TB, you know him :). He spent a good half hour convincing me I should be in bed and not waste my time with that. He then went back to bed and I finished my show.

Anyway, I saw early on VP's nasty side. I was pretty much able to avoid him in the corps, except, when I was called to his motorcoach and he told me several times, very graphically, the type of sex acts he'd like to perform. Talk about a disconnnect. I left. He pretty much left me alone after that. I also think the corps got way too big for the "sit at the feet of the master" stuff.

When we did sit at his feet, or LCM's up there in that huge room at Emporia, I forget what its called, at the "afterglows" - they would turn the lights down low and we'd all get comfy and fall asleep as they droned on and on and on.

Did you feel you were learning incredible spiritual stuff since you were in daily contact with him in your corps?

Depends on how you define "spiritual stuff," but viewed through my idealistic rose colored glasses, I thought I was learning how to listen to God (which would be in the spiritual catagory) so I got very sidetracked with thinking God was telling me to do certain things, like who to marry, etc. Saying he got revelation was VPW's method of explaining away his behavior, which to our "five senses" might seem bizarre or mean at times. VP would use that to justify everything from firing leaders on the field who didn't agree with him, to making us clear the fields of rocks so more lawns could grow, etc. He'd always say, "The Father told me to...." How do you argue with that? Like someone once said, "It's like trying to argue with the communists...they always have an answer." At the time, my impression was that this was a spiritual way to live. YIKES! I had absolutley no frame of reference other than comparing spirituality to the way the Sisters of Mercy (ha!) conducted their lives around me when I was in Catholic school. And I for sure didn't want to wind up like them!

Wordwolf's "take" is very good. I was in the 2nd Corps in 1971-73 and VPW was at HQ with us most of the time. Thankfully I missed out on the motorcoach, but we did meet in the Fireplace room in VP's home many times when he'd sit and talk about the problems in the ministry, appeal to our sympathy, and drink drambouie. We also met outside under the trees by his house, sitting on blankets etc. for teachings. The back of the BRC was an informal meeting place, also, as was the dining room, of course, when he'd sit up on the back of his chair and liken his ministry to Paul's. As we all know, the idea was we'd learn his "heart" on how to run the ministry, live the Word, and work like dogs. The book, "The Way: Living in Love" captures a lot of that closed-in atmosphere, only in a pollyanna way - totally idealistic and white-washed propaganda.

What appealed to me (at 19 years old) was the claim that I could learn more of The Word through the Corps experience than anywhere else because I'd learn directly from the man of God for the world! WOW! Starving for "answers," you couldn't keep me out! BTW - the Corps principles were not published until after we were in the Corps. AFTER we were already in the program we found out that Dr. would assign us to wherever he wanted us to go as leaders and workers after graduation. Surprise! But by the time we got that news, I was so idoctrinated that I simply accepted that fate. This was God's ministry, after all...:-)