penworks

On this subject, I highly recommend the book, Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan.

Remember that VPW got the idea that the Bible was the Word of God and that it was the will of God from Rosalind Rinker waaayyy back. Keep in mind that she came out of the tradition of Fundamentalism which has as one of its main tenants that the Bible (N.T. canon established in the 4th century A.D.) is the Word of God.

There's plenty of info in books you can find in the library and on web sites that explain the history of the N.T. canon, as well as the formation of the O.T. canon. This subject is critical to any study of the Bible, as far as I'm concerned, yet is ignored by most people who are glib when they parrot the phrase that the Bible is the Word of God. Just exactly what they mean is up for grabs. If you pin them down, they usually give you lots of circlular logic in response...they usually are uninformed about what they're referring to exactly...

I e-mailed them and asked whether Paul Mek@l was affiliated with them. I knew him back in the Way Corps in 1972. If I get a reply, I'll post it here.

Here you go.

A quicky, F9 was the first corps to do back to back years.

Technically, the first 3 Corps did two back-to-back years and then graduated. We did have a "field" experience for a few weeks during the second year, being sent out by VP to certain cities to get a class together or don't come back. I was in the 2nd Corps. (everyone came back).

skyrider: The corps logo WAS a five-pointed star with an inner circle......and a 'C' (for Christ) in the core center. Apparently, the program was view to be 'christ-centered'.........with strength and ability derived from there.

Just for the record, the very first Corps seal or logo was created by a second Corps person in 1972 ish before the 1st Corps graduated so it could be put on their graduation certificate. It had two open hands with the list of gift ministries printed on them, a dove and the words The Way Corps. I'll see if I can post a graphic of it...Dr. later discontinued using it because he said people got the idea that everyone who graduated had a gift ministry and that wasn't the case...

Best wishes for a wonderful day, WG!

Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Gahndi

Just for the record, I remember AFTER I had started the Corps program at HQ (2nd Corps), one day I was in Trailer 6 talking with a fellow bunk mate. We were covertly expressing our surprise - and were a little chagrined - about finding out what we'd really signed up for. We hadn't known we'd be sent wherever Dr. wanted us to go after the program was over. That objective wasn't too clear to us when we applied, for some reason. But we figured it was God's will, so we went with it.

No Corps were on the field yet. The first Corps was in their second year of training. The zero Corps had been kicked out, of course, so there was no precedent set yet for Corps grad tasks, etc. I realize now that I was so caught up in the dream that I did not think very far down the road. But at 19 yrs. old, who does? A few do, I guess...but I was not one of them.

I can verify Howard was very ill and that Dr. called it encephalitis. I was in-residence in the Way Corps at HQ at the time. We prayed round the clock for him and heard from Dr. that beet juice was being administered to Howard while in his hospital bed and Pa# L*nn was there often to help. I remember Dr. telling us that this unorthodox beet juice treatment, although sanctioned by the attending physician (a PFAL grad), was causing a stir at the hospital, but that it was helping.

The day Dr. and Howard arrived back at HQ after Howard's stay in the hospital, we greeted him with cheers as he climbed out of the camper. We stood on the driveway alongside the ramp that leads to the BRC dining room. He was very fraile but walked on his own and stayed home for quite a while after that.

I remember Dr. saying he believed the hitchhiker must have been an angel. I was very impressed with that, as I was a very impressionable 20 year old in 1972. (Now you know how old I am :-) Anyway, the event surely was labeled as a miracle. God saved VP's best friend, etc. It seems to me that the story was used at many meetings to testify to the power of God's healing and the stand the ministry took on believing God for miracles, as well as promoting natural ingredients to heal, in addition to using regular medicines.

Oh poor guy! Please tell him his email pal in Florida who he was writing to for awhile has missed hearing from him and wondered what happened. This explains it. He's heavy on my heart...send him my love, please...

Jump in, Sir. I don't think penworks would mind. And the nature of suffering in the world isn't dependent on Bart Ehrman! :)

-JJ

Agreed!

i have to say that i cant bring my self to agree with these 3 points,

...but i'm also guessing it might be better for me to participate in a separate thread on the nature of suffering or something, as i havent read Ehrman's book

I'm almost finished reading Ehrman's book and so far find his arguments compelling. One point in particular about his approach to the scriptures that is impressive is that he sticks with the context of each view found in each separate book written by each separate author. This enabled me to sort out the different views and why the writers had them. To me it's extrememly important to understand each book in its historical context. If you can, give this book as an objective a read as you can and think it over...

I don`t know highway, I only know that I had left to have the baby, that I was asked to return to the limb to take care of a few loose ends. My bc picked me up and took me.

Twinky, thanks it gets worse...

There was a whole doctrine used...I call it doctrine because people have told me that the same reasoning and verses were used on them.

I was told that I had made a vow to God...if I did not finish my commitment on the wow field and enter the corpes in the fall I would have broken that vow...I would have lied to God. It was then pointed out what happened to people who lied to God...annanias and saphira were trotted out. How God didn`t see it as murder because old testament punishment for causing a woman to *lose her fruit* was different than murder....

It was pointed out that I shouldn`t let a group of cells.....not alive till first breath paracite ... not a real baby and to break my commitment to God for that was unthinkable...all complete with verses presented that appeared to support this .....

The sin was not in having sex, because all things were lawful to them which were in Christ...but only in allowing it to prevent me from honoring my promise. I was told that many people in the corpes big names had found themselves in this situation and not to be ashamed...

Feeling that I had no choice, that I didn`t think thatl I could live life without God....I agreed.

Get this.....The limb co knew where to go and even made the appointment for me. My bc picked me up and drove me me to the appt in the city where the limb was....and stayed with me...I fled the office the first time and was taken back to the lc...I was talked to some more ... a new appt was made....

I don`t want to argue abortion right or wrong either...I just think it was incredibly cruel to have to feel like I needed to chose between God and the child.

ohmygod. This is one of the worst stories I've heard yet. It's despicable. I'm so sorry you went through this at the sickening, twisted prompting of lc, bc, and others in The Way who used "committment to God" as the justification... I think I'm going to throw up.

These posts are very compelling and are a good example of how varied the Corps experience was, depending on when you were in it, how old you were, your own personal aspirations for the training, your previous religious experience, who your Corps coordinator was, how close VP monitored your performance, and on and on.

I was in one of those early Corps, the 2nd one. Craig was in that one, too. VP watched us like a hawk. I went in because I wanted to know the Word, because VPW was proclaimed the man of God for this day and time by the people who witnessed to me at ECU (some of whom were also in the first and second and third Corps), and because I figured I could learn more of God's Word and learn it faster in the Corps than anywhere else. That was my idealistic logic at the ripe old age of 19 yrs. That was my "heart." Those things were only reinforced during the training. And stayed that way for 17 years until I left in 1987. I left because I no longer wanted to be involved with Fundamentalism nor believed the Bible was God's Word. But that's another story...

The concept of being "toughened up" wasn't something I expected, but I did find out after I got there. To me it meant I had to be able to take harsh reproof and correction and do what I was told regardless of whether I understood why at the time (no, this did not include sleeping with the doctor, although others were not so lucky I now know). I had to learn to push myself physically - run faster, father, longer down Wierwille Rd. at 5:00 a.m. I had to memorize more scripture, I had to get along with others who were different than me, I had to be bolder when I witnessed to strangers (I hated that.)

Perhaps this adds something to this discussion. If not, oh well...

For anyone interested, here's a link to an interview of the author on NPR. I find the book fascinating and very pertinent to the topic of why we suffer. Ehrman also authored, Misquoting Jesus. IMO both books are excellent.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=19096131

"Well, they could emerge from obscurity with a prize-winning research team"

Speaking of this topic - Has anyone here thought about the possibility that doing biblical research is as futile as hanging clothes on the line in the rain? It rarely acheives what it sets out to do. IMO - it adds more @#$% to the heap of Bible interpretations that already cause so many schisms in the world.

Give peace a chance.

I, too, just listened to this interview. I personally know Kristen. It's a devastating story. It's unfortunate beyond belief. There were many hurt in the same way, some who knew about it but denied it, and some like me who were oblivious and blind and not targeted - for whatever reason I don't know for sure. The sadness I feel about that blindness is something I've borne for a long time. Sometimes I think that had I known, I somehow could've prevented the abuses. But a social worker once told me that siblings of abused children often feel that same guilt but the reality is they couldn't have prevented it...who knows...

For clarification: I can personally attest to the fact that the lockbox teaching about these sexual activities was not taught to everyone who ended up as a leader. The broad concept of the "lockbox," however, was applied whenever an issue was supposed to be kept "in house," for instance when VP had confrontations with research people who disagreed with him and they left or he kicked them out of the Corps, etc.

Wonderful interview! I've known Kristen since 1970 and am proud she's telling the truth about her experience. The interview is refreshingly frank - let's hope listeners really hear her message...it's clear as a bell. Thanks Paw and Kristen!

Is that the same Kris Skedgell that used to be in Bloomington Indiana back in the 1970's??

Yes. She's an 8th Corps grad. Her blog is at http://losingtheway.blogspot.com/

Here is an excerpt from the upcoming interview with Kristen Skedgell

click here

I for one really appreciate Pawtucket interviewing her. She is a wonderful, sensitive person of integrity whose voice speaks for many.

I just finished reading Bart Erhman's book, Misquoting Jesus. I think he offers an important viewpoint on textual research, a topic I am very interested in since I was on the Research Team at HQ and came to similar conclusions as he presents...

On this topic, I suggest reading:

Wide as the Waters - The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution it Inspired, by Benson Bobrick (historian) and other books like, Karen Armstrong's recent one: The Bible, a Biography.

Enjoy your birthday, Kit! Thanks for what you do to help keep GSC going.

penworks

Does anyone here read any history of the Bible? Does anyone else question the dream of trying to get the "accuracy" of such a book? If you're here, I'd like to hear from you.

To me, that issue is at the root of what drives groups like this new one. I was in the old one for many years. Seems to me time and energy is better spent on other ways of improving the world, but that's just my opinion. Guess I forget I've been outside the box so long it's hard to remember the blind idealism still inside it.

If anyone is interested, other books regarding these topics of who wrote the Bible, the history of the text, and who decided what documents to include in the canon are:

The Bible - A Biography by Karen Armstrong (her latest),

Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels,

Misquoting Jesus by Bart Erhman,

Wide as the Waters - The Story of the English BIble and the Revolution It Inspired by Benson Bobrick, and

Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

to name a few good ones I've read.

Lisa,

Welcome to GSC! Your work sounds great and in my opinion is very important. I don't live in Colorado, so I can't help with that, but there are tons of people on this site who might be fairly near you and available to interview. I suggest you post a notice under the general topic here called About The Way.

Good luck!