brideofjc

I knew it! Couldn't resist....like looking at a bad accident....you just have to....you know????? Where's that puking icon that floats around the GS?

Funny, you should bring up those verses WG...when I was in seminary, the professor was pontificating upon those very verses, but then ignored the very fundamental teachings that the seminary was promoting...LOL, i.e. "stay to context" I unfortunately do not have my Bible with me at the moment, but I do believe I have my notes in the margin and it definitely doesn't mean that. I don't particularly wish to barf right now, so I won't go the link that you offered based upon your description of the article :blink: When I GENTLY reminded the professor about the context and offered the meaning.....he just looked at me and I got a "B" on my paper today...do you think there was a cause and effect with that grade??????

No, not BECAUSE of men, but BY men. If you can fix the odds in your favor....if you know what I mean by that....then say that it is the will of God that you OBEY these rules.... Then keep people (especially the underlings) ignorant of the original languages that the English texts were translated from..well....OMG! Snowball keeps getting bigger and bigger.....when will it end?

I think both are responsible. If I screw up, why should I be responsible for his behaviors? Should he be responsible for mine?

But some say that this "death" is just separation from the True God, not "death" as we define it located in the flesh realms. The fact that man's spirit died on the day they sinned, simply means that the connection point to God died. It doesn't mean that it ceased to be eternal. When we got born again, it was that connection point that got reestablished via the Holy Spirit.

Me too, Ex! The Lord Jesus is the only one I truly submit to, and if there are any others, the Lord will show them to me. Yes, there is. I hope you're blessed this Sunday Easter day, Rascal!

Job didn't lose his wife, she suffered right along with him at the loss of their children and home and all of their wealth. Plus, God doesn't view you as inferior, man in his fallen state began viewing women as inferior because he couldn't own up to the fact that he was right there and could have stopped his wife and he didn't. So to avoid having to deal with it, he lowered Eve almost to animal status, who was only good enough to have sex with and bear his children, etc. etc. The church unfortunately has propagated false doctrine by separating Eph 5:21-22 and they continue it because quite honestly, too many men like the idea that somehow they are in charge, so they continue to the falsehood.

Again, as I said before,, Rascal, both of the people in a marriage have entered into a covenant, and a covenant is supposed to have well being on both sides. The man is not the master just because he has an extra piece of flesh up front. Sometime if you ever have the time, next time you're in a doctors office or check it out online.... look at a depiction of the female reproductive organs and really look. You will see how close they are to the man's. I kid you not. I was at the doctor's office and there was a poster up on the wall and I thought it was just phenomenal when I looked at it and saw the similarities. Indeed, when the Scriptures say that the woman was to be the mate that was complete for the man, God indeed meant it. We were made completely suitable. And no one say, Duh, please. It was too cool.

Hear! Hear! Glad to hear it. I was gonna ask you next if you were married.... Alas....

See, I believe that Ephesians is speaking equality between the husband and wife. Eph 5:21-22 are tied irrevocally together by grammar...the one another is the husband and wife. Besides all of that Dooj....I would make a teriffic mistress, and I even pay a decent wage....

Love was a luxury in that day, I do believe. Marriage was arranged for financial betterment of the families or political reasons. Therefore, for the husband to love their wives and the wives to respect the pre-arranged marriage partner was phenomenal in their day.

I know that this is sometimes an explosive topic that brings out the worst in some folks....but do present your ideas. I know what TRADITION has taught...but is this really what Ephesians 5 states? Tradition has taught that it is only the woman's job to submit to her husband, but the verse right before 5:22 Ephesians 5 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. But right before 5:22 is 5:21 where all the believers are exhort to SUBMIT YOURSELVES ONE TO ANOTHER.... Could it be??? What do you all think? Be Polite!

That's why we are told that we will know the real Christian by the fruit that they produce. However, I realize that sometimes, even the REAL Christian goes through periods of unproductivity and times of trials where they may not appear to be at their best. I guess this why the angels are going to gather out the tares first at the time of judgment and then the REAL Christians will appear as they truly are. Blessed of the Lord.

In that day, if you lost your virginity (for any reason) your chances of marriage were almost null and void, unless your father found a very old widower who didn't mind. However, since it appears she believed these strangers who came to her and understood that very possibly she was going to die right alongside those in the city, sounds to me she was a very practical woman who understood which side her bread was buttered on in more ways than one. It could be also, that she already knew somewhat about the Hebrew God and had heard of His fame bringing His people out of Egypt, the destruction of Pharoh's army et al, and knew this was not a God to be trifled with. Since it would appear (according to these strangers) that their God had set this city for destruction, voila! She made a choice to live...... sounds s-m-a-r-t- to me!

Christianity changes WS? What the Lord Jesus stated in the first century still holds true today. The Lord put the standard so high so that people wouldn't just dump their spouses for frivolous reasons, like a cuter skirt. I agree with you also Rascal. Those who only want to lay the blame at other people's feet and not look at their own part in it....oh well. They need the counseling IMO. Abuse is not love...and therefore....hasn't the vows already been broken? Yes, they have. As I said before, the Lord Jesus placed the bar so high so that people wouldn't just jump in and out of marriage, like the Pharisees and Saduccees were doing.

Well said, Dot. Tares are just that....they do look just like the real wheat until the harvest comes....then....nothing there. I'm unfortunately still being crushed by a lot of so-called Christians who are (I believe) jealous of the ministry that the Lord has given to me, want to make a dollar off of it and I won't let them, want to control it (because after all a man makes a better leader ) and I won't let them do that either. Still picking myself up off that floor, feeling as if my faith sometimes has been tested to its very limits of endurance. It is easy to recognize that open blatant evil, but it is very difficult when the cloak of Christianity is covering the unrepentant heart. And Dot, unfortunately, its not just those that live on a farm in OH that are into that either. They are in the local churches as well, all over the world, right down the street from you and I. Thanks for the link to the page, its kind of scary to think that so much of us probably can relate to something in that article.

When the Pharisees confronted the Lord Jesus about the issue of divorce, the Lord Jesus quite clearly and succintly stated that only in the case of adultery should one split, not because someone misrepresents themselves while dating. Perhaps then a longer courtship and engagement should have occurred before they said "I do." The Lord Jesus wasn't trying to be a hard person, but the point of the message is divorce is not to be taken lightly, like they do in Las Vegas. Get married, enjoy a roll in the hay, and turn right around and get a legal divorce all in the course of a day. The reason as the Lord Jesus stated, Moses allowed divorce, God didn't. Moses allowed it because of the hardness of the men's hearts in his day toward their wives. They were tiring of their wives, casting them out of their homes without their children, and because of the culture, the men were allowed to take another wife, but according to Mosaic law, the women were not until the man died, (perhaps a little push in the right direction would have helped ) So God told Moses to allow divorce, because witout the divorce in writing she could not get married again, which would then force her to live on the streets, beg for a living or turn to prostitution in order to survive. Divorce was allowed to help the woman get on with her life even though she would still be bereft of her children from that particular marriage. It was so bad during that day that a man was allowed to get rid of his wife if she burned his toast. Sooooooo....... The Lord Jesus put the heart of the Father into His message by putting the standard a lot higher for the separation of a man and woman.

According to the Word of the Lord, RELATIONSHIP came first and then when A&E decided to go on their own, subsequent religion (they decided to serve themselves) came into play. Thus, because the Lord still wanted a relationship with A&E He eventually established a better religion where they would get their eyes off of their own selves. Besides, God created us to desire to worship something (it is supposed to be our Creator), therefore, He corrected their fault and I believe He is bringing those that desire Him to live eternally with Him. Unfortunately, those that want to remain in a self worship status, will spend an eternity apart from their Creator. :(

Hey there...wanna ride in my brand new wagon????

Well said Bolshevik! Not prepared to argue anymore Garth? Ahh, what a party-pooper!

The Lord Jesus studied the Torah, for example when He finally stood up to read Isaiah in the synagogue of Nazareth, it says he opened it to just that place. Now that took a lot of reading of that particular scroll, to just o-p-e-n it to that exact spot to read. It doesn't say that he had to search for it and it took him 20-30 minutes to find the verse he was interesting in reading. The Lord Jesus venerated the WORD OF HIS FATHER, written down in the scrolls. It doesn't preclude the idea that He didn't spend a lot of deep intense prayer (conversations) WITH HIS FATHER.

... including cultures that _predate_ the Bible, ... by centuries. ... s-o-o it begs the question. Where did the flood story originate again?? I believe it began with NOAH, Garth. Flawed response, _particularly_ considering the oft-made (and loud, I daresay) claim that the aforementioned deity is (supposedly) perfectly moral. ... S-o-o, if _we_ behave in like manner, and it is considered _immoral_ (and that by the same 'holy and moral' standard that comes from said deity) to inflict murder (s-u-r-e, let's cut the crap and call it for what it really is, shall we? wink.gif ) upon someone for doing nothing more than lying, ... and yet this aforementioned perfectly moral deity does the same, ....... then, sorry Charlie, but you don't get to get away with the "but He's the Creator of the Universe" copout as a means of getting around that blatant discrepancy. I do believe that this is a forum for people's VIEWS, and I have exposited mine. My beliefs are that Yahweh is a perfectly moral God and as such, He has the RIGHT to judge that which HE CREATED. PERIOD. Since you as well as everyone else are the CREATED ONES, you and I don't have really a whole lot of say about it. Do we? Now you may flap your gums about it, but it won't ever really change much about it, will it? N-o-o-o, I'm indulging in logical comparisons of actions between one deity and another, and exposing the practical cognitive dissonance that many people (ohhhh, ... like you) apply when they see the injustice done by one deity (the one they don't believe in), and totally miss seeing it done by the other deity (the one that they do believe in). ... It's kinda like how it's easier to see "the mite in your brother's eye" but not the "log in your own" principle. Yeah, that would work if Allah were real. However, it is interesting that this god never shows up until about 600 A.D. and he shows up by a "prophet" who hated the Jews. Now, about these so-called (yours) acts of injustice done by one deity and not the other per se. Israel was commanded to kill the nations that inhabited the land that Yahweh was giving to them. HOWEVER, at no time (that I can think of offhand, I don't have my Bible handy) was Israel ever told by Yahweh, when they were at peace, to rise up and go over to such a such land (not their promised land) and just slaughter simply because those people don't believe in the same God. However, this is not the case for the lesser deity in question (the one not mine), Ahh, the slogan...."REMEMBER 911" Even today, they are still busy just slaughtering. Israel defends and fights back, yes......for the incursions on their land or just fed up with missiles coming in....and so they rise up and send them back or invade. We are told to imitate our God, yes....but we are not EVER told to BE HIM. There are some things that the created ones cannot usurp, and this is Yahweh's prerogative right to judge.

I would say that it most definitely has to be conscious. This was why A&S bought it. Peter tagged them on it, why have you LIED to the HS? This wasn't just a blunder or omission, but a deliberate attempt to hide the price of the land. So is this unforgivable sin, it has to be a deliberate knowing that it is a work of the Lord, yet spouting out that its really from the devil. This is why the Lord Jesus tagged the Pharisees. These weren't everyday fishermen with only a limited amount of Scriptural knowledge, these were the elite religious people, priests, Levites, and even eventually the high priest. They knew the Scriptures forward and backward and this is also why the Lord Jesus pounded them with (paraphrase), "You think you have salvation in YOUR Scriptures/Law." They knew what the Scriptures said about the coming Messias, and they knew that Jesus was filling the bill on every count. Another place of Scripture...the Pharisees were hearing Him speak and they could see that the people were following HIM and no longer THEM and they wanted to DESTROY HIM. I believe it is called JEALOUSY. So the Lord Jesus told them, they could speak badly about Him, but not the Holy Spirit. NOT EVER! I don't plan on ever doing it. If I WERE to get close, I would hope the Holy Spirit would lead me away from the offence.

I believe this is possible even today Geisha. I think it possible today that Christians could transgress too. It speaks of works, not Lordship.