chockfull

And of course for a little bit of common sense logic (never found in TWI)...

In a top-down organization, which way does sh!@#$% flow?

Downhill, of course.

Eighty percent, eh? Wonder where they come up with that statistic. They never say, they just make the claim. No scientific backup, no footnotes, just make the claim big enough, loud enough, long enough, people will believe you.

It goes right along with what my statistics teacher used to say consistently as a joke - "did you know 80% of all statistics are made up on the fly?"

One of the last times I remember WC going "with us" was a gray and very rainy day on the Left Coast when the wonderful BL and his pregnant wife took a bunch of us to this apartment complex and told us in no uncertain terms to go win one for TWI. Of course, this being at that time the least religious city in the country, we got lots of door slammed in our faces. However, the BL and wifey found some sweet little old lady who invited the mommy-to-be in for tea, out of pity for her standing in the rain, and they cozily ensconced themselves around this woman's dining room table, the BL only reappearing from time to time to yell at those of us who were still out stumbling around in the downpour.

Such love! Because they were comfortable, we got to witness to everybody in the whole complex, then stand around for an hour waiting to be given permission to go home.

When I was on my WOW year our WC BL never went witnessing with us, not even when she told us each twig was to get a class together in one week or leave the field.

WG

Sounds like some regimented and hypocritical BS you went through there WG. I'm sorry you had to endure it.

And then LCM took it to new heights....or depths, depending oh how you look at it.

Men in Rainbow Tights Doing the Hot Married Chick in Red Tights Dressed Up in the Devil Outfit?

And then all of us got to show it to our kids so they could see what a star he was too?

Looking back this stuff is so funny you couldn't put together a comedy routine that would do it justice....

Then.........these "staff witnessing days" will be a present-day testimony of HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. And, better yet.....maybe you and donna should LEAD THE WAY and knock on some doors yourselves. Leading by example, what a concept????

Now that would be rich - can you picture the Fox and Donna coming to your door witnessing? I mean what would a natural response be to that there with no threat of repercussions? I can see it now.

"You're with what group? And you're a Rev.? They allow that? Oh, and this is your partner? No? Well I just assumed by the way you look...."

That at least would be more entertaining than the Mormon kids with hideous ties or the JW followers entrenched in fear on your doorstep...

You might be a TWI tool if you act holy but lie about people to save yourself.

Sheesh. I didn't post that originally to be the "be all" interpretation of that verse. It's just another way to look at it and one that I've reflected upon. Somtimes when people get all lathered up on one way of looking at a verse, the antidote is right in the vicinity....

Sheesh. They don't witness because deep down in their hearts they are ashamed. Not ashamed of the gospel, but ashamed of the lameness and control freak nature of their ministry. They secretly hope it will get better so someday in the future they won't have to be ashamed.

Those hockey pucks aren't even good for a coaster for a drink. Sandstone at least absorbs moisture.

My wayfer folks taught me if I want to buy a house I should wait for some of our relatives to die. The inherited money they leave would help to not go into debt and stay right with God.

This is such the welfare mentality of TWI. The Bible teaches that if you don't provide for your own especially those in your own house you are worse than an infidel.

TWI teaches you to sponge off your elderly relatives and wait for them to die so you can have their money and buy a house. This attitude is widespread. I've heard plenty of TWI robots talking about "their inheritance" and looking at money belonging to their elderly relatives as theirs before they are dead. It's despicable. It's money grubbing. It's the lowest of the low. When my parents and relatives grow old and die I want to take care of them, not sponge off them and wait around grubbing after the money they may leave.

some times you will not be able to prove things to the world that why the bible is only talking your hearts

Hi Roy,

Sometimes you won't be able to publicly, but sometimes you will. The Bible talking to my heart tells me to prove all things, including exposing the evil that is in TWI leadership that has impacted my life and impacts so many others. I don't know what the Bible talking to your heart says.

sure its good to exposed evil everywhere but the word talking the heart

i love you but your wrong you asking the impossible

If the Word says to expose evil, and you say "that's good, but", how can that Word speak to your heart?

I'm glad you love me, even though you're telling me I'm wrong.

I'm not asking the impossible, I'm sharing a verse in the Bible and my understanding of how it speaks to my heart.

And yet I am wrong?

Do what you want. It's a free country. I will continue to endeavor to expose evil, because that's how the Word works on my heart. I'll continue doing that even if people tell me I'm wrong.

the courts can prove some things

but the heart can prove anything or unproved

love Roy

One of the problems with cults like TWI is that the Word should dictate constraint, love, common Christian brotherhood and treating other Christians as the Word tell us as opposed to how the world treats you. Yet because of the evil within them, it does not.

What's funny is how quickly they change under threat of the laws that govern them in our country. You should be able to say to the BOD of TWI "chapter and verse". But to even get them to respond and act Christian in any fashion, you have to say to them "Court location, jurisdiction and docket number". Outside of threat of legal ramifications, they continue to act with no restraint to the evil they imagine and perform.

And yet one day will come when it is no longer man's day of judgement and they will no longer be able to act with unrestrained evil in their hearts and lies upon their lips but will answer to Him who is True.

you never prove all things to the world or any cult

you can only prove things in your heart

...

the money changers is a outward proving of things but we prove to ourselves

Roy,

Ultimately we all need to prove things to our own heart. Especially the quality of our own lives like the genuine money changers.

Yet we can prove things to the world also, as well as to a cult. The lawsuits against Martindale are an example. They proved his depravity to the world, as well as to the cult, and they excommunicated him eventually.

Likewise the deceptive in TWI of VPW before him, and RFR after him may be proven and exposed. As can the corrupt motives of the leaders protecting their own little piece of the pie. Once evil is exposed, one can abstain from it. When it is concealed, not so much.

To our own hearts, and to all hearts, evil and good will be exposed eventually, with the return of our Lord.

I have something to say to the "get over it" crowd. The scripture involved is I Thess 5:21 - "prove all things; hold fast that which is good".

In the time I have been around these forums, those defending abusive groups like TWI have brought this argument up, that this site and forums consist of people who don't want to "get over it" and just want to keep rehashing old issues and being bitter. TWI current members and leaders view those on this site consisting of people that "hate the ministry" or want to "stay hurt" or are "bitter".

Labeling people makes it easier to build prejudice, and prejudice is a great way to avoid contemplating the truth that a person or group of people bring up.

To fulfill the scripture above in I Thess 5:21, two actions are required:

1) Prove all things

2) Hold fast that which is good

Prove is a derivative of the greek dokimazo, which has common means of trial by fire, purification, and secular references to money changers who would not shave their coins and cheat their customers.

To prove all things, behavior that is contrary to God's Word, God's love, God's intent for His children need to be examined, tried by fire, weighed and balanced. For TWI's leadership, this is what TWI members do not do. Because of the "caste" system in TWI, leaders hold themselves beyond judgement except to their employers. The BOD answers to nobody. Atrocities are swept under the carpet, lies are told and upheld, people are burned and their good reputations impunged and slandered, and anyone with an opinion different than the leaders is eventually blackballed. That is simply not proving all things. Nothing is proven, tested, tried with respect to the behavior and actions of leaders who place themselves above God's people. TWI members develop a "pollyanna" mentality where they are just going to focus on the positive and hope that if they ignore the negative it will go away.

The second part of the verse is to hold fast that which is good - once things are proven and exposed and tried as in the first part of the verse, then one can assimilate the good into themselves and have it a beneficial part of them. Assimilating evil practices into one's self is not holding fast to that which is good.

Here is the rub, TWI supporters. YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ALL THINGS, so you cannot hold fast to that which is good. The evil you knew about and supported, or learned about, that tarnishes your soul. It prevents honestly holding fast to the good because the evil was not confronted.

In one sense the whole existence of GreaseSpot is to prove all things. It is to expose the evil in TWI and offshoots, and confront it. As members aren't subject to punitive retribution here like they are in TWI and offshoots, they are free to share of their accounts of what happened to them (which people still question), expose evil, and confront it.

It is up to the responsibility of each member or poster on GreaseSpot to hold fast to that which is good. There are good experiences, people, scriptures, etc. that we encountered while in TWI. God desires us to integrate into our souls the good, while confronting the evil. Each person has to define for themselves what that means. You cannot judge for another soul which they are doing and say "get over it". The process has to be fulfilled for each person individually. It is a personal growth thing.

So to the pollyannas the message is "prove all things". To the hurt and bitter, after proving all things, the message is "hold fast that which is good". We all choose which message we need at the moment, and it can change depending on where we are at for the moment.

It's been 23 years since I left the ministry.

And yet, you sound exactly like those that are still in the ministry. Ironic. Perhaps you might consider leaving the critical and elitist logic as well.

Actually no discussion of TWI writing styles would be complete without covering the latest and greatest from the podunkville farm and the editing preferences of her Rosieness. The best way to describe this style would be the use of adjectives. So, here we go:

bland

vanilla

lifeless

bologna on white bread

3rd grade reading level

b-o-r-i-n-g

void of personality

overedited

dull

snoozefest

Even Strunk & White would fall asleep reading it

And even more amazing is they are able to reproduce it in live teachings. Yes, TWI is truly medication for the insomniac.

I am being told that I hate them though, and that I hate her friends, and that I hate her background. ... Recently there was a wedding that she was in with TWI folks and, although I originally wanted to go, I was told that I hate all of them and that I would have no fun.

This is a common defensive tactic. When someone brings up a rational criticism of TWI, such as they all act elitist and support elitist doctrine, because they are themselves blindly involved their brain will not allow that logical criticism to remain. So in describing it, it's easier for their little self-justification to say "so-and-so hates the ministry and hates ministry people". Then they repeat it amongst themselves to the point that they all believe that. It doesn't really matter what reality is, they just define their own reality.

It would be way too embarassing to say "so-and-so thinks the ministry's teaching of 'household' is elitist and egotistical in relationship to other Christians so chooses not to be involved with the ministry". You see that would establish the validity of any rational argument and decision. So they make up an irrational argument, state it as true, and act like it is true.

The reality is most all of us here don't hate TWI or hate TWI members. But they will never accept that regardless of the truth of the statement.

Manipulation---The wayfer mindset needs it to survive.

She may have distanced herself from them physically, but, mentally, she is still a "Way believer".

Yeah true - those mindsets run deep. She has chosen not to go to fellowship though. Part of this is all growing up and learning to survive on her own without her parents and their opinions mattering that much.

most people in twi look old to me.

As did most Jews coming out of German concentration camps. Oh, but TWI says those didn't exist ;)

It's all good - Caleb came on here probably becuase the SOWERS program is not TWI, but based on Way Corps principles and is kind of part of an offshoot. This is one of the only places for ex-TWI members or offshoots to post publicly. Everyone's mouthy on the Internet. And it's hard to spend much time on forums when you're working on a farm long hours and doing Bible study outside of that.

Karate = too many bad movies, too many self-indulgent braggart students

TaeKwonDo = for serious students.

slaps forehead.

hey everyone! I appreciate the warm welcome! :) I will address matters as i have time. i am busy working on a farm right now and hours run 60-70 per week.

Hey Caleb,

Nice to meet you. Working on a farm and studying the Bible are all good. I think many of us started out like that in TWI, and we eventually found ourselves locked into a lifestyle that deposited us 20 yrs down the road in a place where we've all thought "how did I get here?" possibly wishing we had made different choices.

I don't know a huge amount about the org behind the SOWERS, but if it's just Victor and him doing a training thing as a year's experience that's one thing. If it's supposed to be the start of another worldwide ministry and you're on the ground floor as one of the founding grad classes and are committing to a "lifetime of Christian service" you may want to rethink some things and keep your options open. There's tons of ways you can fulfill Christian service beyond allowing an organization to control your life.

he is agreat man of God, and a great person in general. He is one of the most loving, caring, kindest people I have ever met. I heard him yell only once or twice in ten months, and that as because he needed to get someone's attention. I am damn proud to consider him a friend. When it comes to teh word he knows his stuff and tries his best to live a Godly lifestyle. BUT! he does not shove it down anyones throat, he doesnt think he is the end all be all authority on all things God, he is very humble, respectful, and someone who i will aggressively defend. I am not a violent person, however, if you want to make any personal attacks against him, you had best not let me know your true identity. I am willing to fight over comments made about him.Trust me, you really dont want a ....ed off redneck knockin' at your door. Some people in the sowers program will claim they have seen me me angry. Well, they havent. My intentions here are not to fight though, so lets keep everything respectful and decent.

The floor is open for discussion.

Awesome! A young redneck Bible student with a chip on his shoulder! It sounds like your year of training really helped you obtain the balance, longsuffering, and humility of the fruit of the spirit ;)

However I will say that fighting skills and anger have very little to do with one another, so you might want to tone it down there a little, Joe Dirt.

You know, if V2P2 wants to make himself a niche in Bible study while working on a farm like his grandpa, I guess that's cool. There seems to be a small market for it. And the org his grandpa founded now has someone who walks around with the nose in the air as opposed to working on a farm, so he couldn't do worse without some serious effort.

Nice to meet you. Thx for stopping by. Have a greasespot doughnut.

Regarding how TWI leadership handled untimely death: when Fred B, who had been our Limb Coordinator before being transferred to Missouri, we were told in our fellowship what a great man o' God Fred had been and how the adversary had been gunning for him because of his great stand for God and the ministry. We were all made to feel guilty that our shortcomings and lack of believing had opened the door for this horrendous attack. On the other hand, at TWI HQ itself, Fred was posthumously ripped to shreds for his lack of believing. Everybody was to blame!

I remember that, Oak. I knew Fred. He died in an auto accident tragically, left a young wife behind. Martinpuke used it as a teaching incident regarding weekly schedules and carrying out what you plan. Apparantly Fred had deviated from his plan to go check out a deer hunting area on a farm close to where he was traveling. And if you don't do exactly what you planned it opens up the door for the adversary. What a frickin' joke. The whole d@mn reason for all the schedules was Rosie making okie turn one in to the directors to keep some kind of limits on his whoring around.

I guess you can't "kick em in the balls" anymore, since Rosie is in charge, eh?.

You mean because hers are usually hidden under a dress?

In my world we call that karma

Living well, producing Christian fruit, and helping others is the only revenge against TWI worth living. I salute you, AwayNGone.

I wish I could post the ones I know about in detail, I truly do, because they're amazing. I just don't want the attention and I don't want it on my friends. I'm more concerned about the impact on them.

Many of us know much more than we can share. Suffice it to say concerning liars, I John records the fact that they live such a lie that they even deceive themselves. They have a compulsive need to redefine reality surrounding them that they continually revise the simplest of facts to conform to their little worlds. Christian Scientists can look at a broken bone, and instead of getting it splinted and operated on can say they see it whole. This is very similar to these liars we discuss. They lie to themselves to practice, so when they lie to others it's polished.