chockfull

The lying is a byproduct of the political hierarchy in TWI. The people in these positions get to the point they put too much stock in the "God called me to this position" logic, and they justify whatever it takes to keep them in that position, primarily including lying to cover their @ss3s. They get into an "end justifies the means" mindset, and sweep huge lies under the carpet in the name of protecting "the ministry".

What they don't realize is that with their lies, they've already lost any genuine ministry from God. He simply no longer energizes where hearts produce falsehood. So all you have left is a structure and a set of procedures for producing teachings and fellowship meetings. The machine runs, but nothing is produced. The lights are on, but noone is home.

Most basically, from God's perspective there is "speaking the truth in love", and there is "speaking lies in hypocrisy". God doesn't back a liar, no matter how it may appear initially.

How do you know a politician is lying? His lips are moving. What's completely ironic is that d0uchen0zzle's like W@llfoot are the ones that fit into the culture of TWI by lying their @sses off. They are perceived by the upper echelon as fitting in because lying is how they all function when it suits them. So they are blind to liars because they are liars. They did that Corps couple a favor. Maybe they'll leave, and then TWI will have less volunteers to fire. Actually maybe they'll fire all their volunteers and then there will be no more TWI. They are so stupid that's completely feasible.

Skyrider is correct - however later on Dorothea started teaching this corps class called something like "how to be a christian wife" or some such thing where she taught it was god first, then yourself (because you couldn't do anything for family if you were not taken care of), your spouse, your children, others.

In either case (or any case where TWI "taught" anything about parenting) the children came out on the losing side of parental attention, love, schooling, nurturing, etc etc.

This is all content in the Christian family classes taught. okie and donna had their class they taught, which had this content of course. But there was no place in teaching segments for where the harem fit in, or the side relationship with r0s@lie o'donnell. So that was replaced with a more vanilla version taught by the C0ulters which is where it's at now.

The funny thing is when people actually try to live those concepts. Try missing a class due to children or spouse priorities. Then you'd hear some blockhead sputter about how the class is really part of your relationship with God and guilt you into it. Really? I thought that was my reading / prayer time. The funny part - okie and donna's class talked about toddlers and bedtimes and suggested like 7:30 or 8 as a bedtime. Oh, but that's during fellowship. Again getting to hear blockheads sputter.

In reality the best way to live a Christian family is to avoid TWI. Read / teach the Bible at home, be an example as a parent and keep people out of your family business.

And yet we were supposed to have a "quiver full" of children.

You mean except for when they had a policy where no Corps or Staff could get pregnant because they couldn't afford it.

I don't think I could globally say one way or another if all tongues in TWI were real or counterfeit. The group is counterfeit. Yet God looks on the heart and works with people where they are at.

As the title suggests, I wonder who we should be more concerned about: Muslim Extremists? or a very small insignificent group of people Headquartered in a little German Hickville, OH USA town.

On a national and policy level? Muslim extremists.

On a local level and on this forum? the small insignificant group of people HQ'd in Hickville, OH.

Why? Because the small insignificant group continues to sell snake oil, suck people in, and leave their lives empty carcasses after parasitically sucking the life out of them. And there's virtually no place to expose them outside of this site. Which alerts people.

i KNOW you think i'm possessed ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha

nah, you're sweet, excie.

I know who "Research Geek" is and he did work in Greek, he did not work on these Aramaic projects.

Didn't Mike G*d*** work on this project too? I seem to remember him going back to school at U of Chicago for Aramaiac studies prior to him leaving twi. Sorry if I'm asking about someone who might not want their name associated. But those are cool interlinears, and some of that work influenced other stuff that's finding it's way into good Bible software now.

There was this one time, like, when I stopped in 7-11 for an icee, that I was just standing there and I heard this voice saying "I will teach you the Word like it hasn't been known since the first century", and I like shook my head in disbelief and closed my eyes and then opened them, and it was snowing so thick I couldn't even see the gas pumps. Then I like was really confused, and I heard the same voice saying "That will be $1.39 please" in an Arab accent and I opened my eyes again and saw this man with a towel wrapped around his head, and I said "Jesus?" and he said, "no my name is Abdul but I have a brother named Jesus that looks a lot like me". It was then I realized I better steer clear of those energy drink icee's or I might be in danger of starting my own cult.

Seriously, though, I've learned to recognize the still small voice of God in a rainbow, in the laugh of a little girl, in a sunset. He is magnificent and wonderful and a very loving and gracious Father to me, who doesn't deserve Him.

Huh! I saw this on his twitter page:

"Training a new hire on the best collection method I have ever seen. "

And all of this vast experience in evaluating collection methods so as to be able to train new hires is compressed into the year 2009? Well at least he hasn't forgotten how to hype something up.

i'm not saying this was the way, but it's all too similar for me -- and wierwille knew all that too

a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Oh my. Why did they let him do it? Think about it. . . you make such a great point! Okay, the family is gone. . . LCM is gone. . . there are only a few faithful minions hanging about. . . but, who is left there with ALL the money. . . the property. . . and can to do as they please?

Those two women. . . . who don't really hide their affection for each other. . . are in each other's pockets, and have the freedom and means to do as they please.

They let him purge the place and then finished the job, knocking it down to a manageable size.

Tell me this hasn't been going on for years. It isn't about "biblical research" or "Moving the Word over the world". . . .

It is about a romance.

Now why does this sound to me like the intro to a trailer for a movie?

Two women ..... can't really hide their affection ...... in each other's pockets .... free to move ......

A forbidden love ...... they let him purge the place ...... now they've finished the job .......

Tell me this hasn't been going on for years .......

Is this really "biblical research"? ....... Is this really "Moving the Word over the world? .........

Come see .... the epic saga .......

Brokeback Farmlands........

[Queue the banjo music in background]

maybe I shouldn't ask..

Actually, there's all sorts of things to ask. Like how exactly does this work, in terms of baseball analogies? pitcher, catcher, 3rd baseman? bat boy?

Are they going to exchange jewelry after a certain period of time of knowing one another? Like the 2 that lived with RR? One bed on vacations?

Or don't do any of this "so the ministry is not blamed"....? What % of single women are we going to shoot for in leadership positions?

Personally, I don't think that was QUITE the issue lcm had.

I think he obsessed about homosexuality because he was hoist on his own petard.

He was STUPID ENOUGH to marry a woman whose sole criterion for marriage was "high climber in twi."

He was STUPID ENOUGH to retain a simple jock mentality about things- what he liked, being macho, etc.

IMHO,

he was STUPID ENOUGH to be interested in threesomes, and mentioned it in some form to his wife.

That was part of a "dumb jock" mentality, and viewing his wife as a THING, not a PERSON. She mattered IN RELATION TO HIM.

So, he starts mentioning more things any devout Christian leader would avoid.

This opens the door for other things he wasn't hoping for-

like the other 2/3 of a threesome assembling, but not inviting him to make up the last 1/3.

WordWolf, I think you have very perceptive insight into the inner workings of WHY. Things do not happen in a vacuum regarding people. There is an inner cause for everything. The destruction that manifest within eventually was reflected out. Then the aftermath is left, and people sweep it under the carpet and live on in its wake.

Hi, Believersnonbeliever, I am new to this site and still trying to figure it out. So far I have seen very little edification here. As I see it, the Way, attempts to stick to God's Word and to its motto "the Word of God is the Will of God". Does anyone do that perfectly or even near perfectly? Of course not! But at least somebody is trying to speak God's Word to people and teach them what is available from God. Your girlfriend could be right! God want us to go to His Word. Not just talk about "people" and "the past". The Word of God has healed my heart. Talking about people has never healed me. There is great power to believers in this our day and time to believers who confess Romans 10:9 and then claim their power that is available in the name of Jesus Christ. Somebody has to teach it! Somebody has to hold it forth! I do not see "grease spot cafe" teaching people the power that is available to believers in this day and time and or how to utilize it in daily living. What you do is up to you. God has given each of us the ability to decide for ourselves.

Tag

Hi tagalong,

Actually functionally the Way sticks to more of "the Word of the BOD is the Will of God" more than their professed motto. Romans states "let your love be without hypocrisy", where the Greek word represents the two masks actors would put on in Greek tragedies. If the Way's motto is "the Word of God is the Will of God" yet how they function is "the Word of Rosalie is the Will of God" then this is a perfect representation of how the Word and the Way differ. The Way functions no differently than VPW's old criticisms of the RC church - their priorities are 1) Pope ex-cathedra 2) traditions of elders, 3) Bible.

As far as you seeing little edification here, perhaps the function of the site is different than blowing sunshine up people's rear ends. In that, it might be similar to the book of Ezekiel or some of the OT readings. You know, in the Word of God? Read Ezekiel and tell me how edified you feel. And yet it is truth. Truth is what heals people's hearts, not ignoring sin latent within an organization. Not a Christian scientist like convincing the mind only to look on the positive side. Not a sweeping under the carpet of behavior so perverse you can scarcely speak of it. You could say Ezekiel "talked about people" too. Mostly about the leaders of Israel.

With respect to the power available in the name of Jesus Christ, and confessing Rom. 10:9,10, perhaps you and I live in different worlds. I see the Word being taught on TV, in churches, in Bible studies, in small groups, in communities all over where I live. And yet to see that I had to be delivered from the spirit of error wrapped up into the elitist doctrine of the Way International. Jesus was asked when he walked the earth "who is my neighbor?" Looking around me at the quality of the Christians I meet, and then considering the quality of what is really lived by those in TWI, I see no basis to look down my nose at any Christian, or to snidely comment "they haven't learned the Word we have". Yes, and they are blessed not to. The version of the Word learned in TWI can be summarized in the verse "knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth". The elitists in TWI are puffed up. So, tagalong, "Who is your neighbor?" If you judge them harshly, be ready to be judged by the same standards when Jesus Christ returns.

Let me get this straight? The people who were tricked are culpable for the abuse of others? The one's who unknowingly supported a system which allowed for abuse?

Yeah - completely illogical. This is the same argument as trying to make all Jews equally responsible for the death of Jesus Christ. No, it's the d@mn leaders. The Sanhedrim voted for it, with a couple of noted exceptions.

"seeking the devout" - another term

Absolutely. I've heard this term many times, and it illustrates the egotistical elitism of the group. It communicates that somehow only the most devout of Christians in their personal lives are worthy of being witnessed to by TWI and joining their organization.

When in reality the antics of TWI's leadership would have gotten them kicked out of most Christian organizations on the face of the planet, especially the ones with any form of democratic non-dictatorial government.

Some of the tribes in Africa will not allow picture taking as their spiritual beliefs indicate taking their picture may capture their soul.

Here, in modern TWI, we note similar behavior in picture taking.

TWI members in like behavior shun picture taking for fear that a picture may capture their soul in association with someone less committed to TWI than they are. Or that their soul may be captured at a moment where they are associated with someone who later "cops out" thus preserving their association in time for others to recognize.

Another public service entry for the journals of superstition in social anthropology. We should do stick drawings to help illustrate.

"Do you agree with LCM, or are you possessed?" Obviously, there are times when it was possible to disagree with him and not be possessed.

When the actual truth is closer to "do you agree with LCM, or is he possessed?" and the answer is obvious.

Like Jesus said of the Pharisees, they call darkness light, and light darkness. That's true gaslighting for you.

The really inane thing about it is that "present truth" appears as a phrase in the KJV Bible,

but they've applied what they refer to as "private interpretation" to it!

2 Peter 1:12

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

This isn't talking about truth NOW, since truth is truth, and does not change with opinion.

It's talking about the truth that's HERE- the truth is PRESENT! You don't need to hunt for it- here it is!

(One of our posters pointed this out YEARS AGO. Naturally, they're still teaching it INCORRECTLY

rather than admit a mistake.)

But lcm (who was made "head of the research dept") did something vpw was fond of doing-

focusing on King James Version English, then forming a teaching or doctrine around something

without ever seeing if the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic/Syriac matched what he said.

Here's the same verse in different versions.

The New International Version.

2 Peter 1:12

So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.

New American Standard.

2 Peter 1:12

Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

Contemporary English Version.

2 Peter 1:12

You are holding firmly to the truth that you were given. But I am still going to remind you of these things.

English Standard Version.

2 Peter 1:12

Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have.

hahahahahaha.

This is so classic. TWI has huge amounts of doctrine, songs, policies all centered around interpreting the word "present" as in contrast to "past" when the true interpretation of the word is "with you" or "in proximity to".

Great example of making the scriptures say whatever you want them to so you can promote your own agenda.

Unfortunately for TWI, most people with teeth, a car, a job, and a modicum of rationality also have a home, a mortgage, and a short tolerance for drivel about a twisted interpretation of "debt" and how you should remain renting for the bulk of your adult life.

now what is it with Rosie in charge?

It would still be a licktatorship - one where butchy looking women raise themselves up to power.

The Way International and Muddy Waters

Muddy Waters was the father of Chicago blues - played with great soul and feeling. Much of modern rock and roll comes from the influence of blues such as this, as well as modern blues itself.

TWI's exactly the opposite. An asphyxiating legalistic dictatorship that sucks the soul out of everything they touch in exchange for a false authoritarian hierarchy they call the household of God.

One - played with soul.

Other - sucks out soul.

Any questions?

Can anyone shed some light on if anything is taught as far as who/what is important at TWI? Are children taught to disassociate with kids in their schools who aren't members? I was at a fellowship last summer and a young senior gave a "heartfelt speech" about her two weeks at the advanced class and she said that "the best part of the trip was realizing who my real friends are. I mean all the girls I have been hanging around with my life, who I laughed and cried with, are not my real friends. The people I met at the class are my new best friends!" That's not word for word, but it's close. That really struck me as odd and a slap in the face to the people she laughed and cried. You know, her actual real friends.

A little light. No they aren't taught to completely disassociate themselves with kids in schools who aren't members, at least at this time. They are not as isolationist as the Amish or Jehovah's Witnesses where they withdraw from society or have no involvement in extracurricular things like sports / etc and are expressly forbidden to have friends outside TWI.

What they are taught is an elitist interpretation of the "body of Christ". Instead of a view of this as all Christians worldwide as a body, their interpretation calls into question how any 2 body parts could work together if they are not "likeminded". In a human body, the brain, hands, eyes, etc. work together in harmony. So by TWI logic, and a vast stretch of the figurative language intended in the epistles there, they say that the REAL "body of Christ" is TWI and its members.

Another concept you will hear is the "family of God" vs. the "household of God". TWI jargon will say "in the household" or "not in the household" with respect to labeling people. People "in the household" they will say you can trust with your heart, or they will say like you observed "they are my REAL friends", etc.

Now to be fair some of what you heard may just be emotional hype because the girl went to OH for 2 weeks along with other TWI members from around the world, met many people, was excited, and made a bunch of new friends that she can link on MySpace and Facebook. However, another part of it is fundamental error in what is taught and commonly believed. It makes members what I call spiritual elitists, or spiritual snobs. Which was exactly how the Pharisees acted.

At that exact time she was getting ready to enroll in the Way Corps, but upon meeting me decided to cancel those plans.

Here's another tidbit of information. The Way Corps through the thriving years of the ministry (late 70's - 86 when VPW died) had hundreds of Way Corps participants. After that numbers dwindled - more recent years there have been 10 - 15 people total, including married couples with children. And some of them get kicked out before graduating. There is a large problem among the non-married Way Corps that the single women outnumber the single men to the tune of about 7 to 1. For a while there they had some policy because of this that a married Corps girl could marry a non-Corps guy with the stipulation they would both go through the Way Corps training.

So marriage and children due to the biological clock of a young woman is a major concern with respect to her what they call "spiritual goals", or desire to enter the Way Corps. Any potential mate would be scrutinized and evaluated in light of his desire and ability to do the same thing. That is probably a higher level of pressure they would put on a bf/gf situation than normal even. With numbers being what they are, the young woman has few choices.

Anyway, that's a little more of the false reality there affecting your gf. Hope that helps.

I find myself asking God why. Why me? Is this what it means to have God in your relationship? Why do many of my friends have great relationships and no God? I know these are selfish questions, but they are honest ones.

There are scriptures that talk about what benefits to an individual trials bring. You are building strength to be a good Christian husband, which is different than being just a husband without God in your relationship. Trials build patience and character. We all have our own.

brainfixed your post has a lot of exactly what was wrong. Actually so many parts of TWI are exactly that.: obedience is more important than health and well being.

The problem with this distortion is that it communicates that God is like a strict authoritarian entity, who you absolutely obey without question. In my opinion and experience God is a lot more involved with reaching out to me where I'm at.