Broken Arrow

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Double sets of books ... I've heard this before - perhaps from you, DWBH, perhaps from others.

TWI's outstanding honesty and integrity is beyond compare. /sarcasm/

Love the way they set the standard and follow that principle, "Render unto Caesar [or the IRS] what is Caesar's..."

This is that same organization, yes?, that said that ABS must be "donated" from gross income - not that income left after tax - because otherwise one was putting "man" before God, hmm?

Thing is, they could have offset the charitable expenditure against tax anyway.

That's if there'd been any charitable expenditure.

Makes me wonder how much any actual charitable expenditure may have been pumped up.

TWI's rationale, if I remember correctly, was that the law was meant for the unbelievers and they would quote a verse from Timothy. We at TWI lived on a higher plain above the law, or so it was said. That really translated into follow the law as long as it is convenient. So, yeah, it's okay to fix the books and lie to the government.

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What Geer did was decide to institute an annual European get-together. He wanted that to become the venue for (at least) European believers. I went to such an event, in Amsterdam. It was a really great time, marred only by the presence of Geer. Then of course Gartmore was ready and events started happening up there.

And that is a really good idea. Saves unnecessary expense and trekking across the world, and European travel is easy and can be done in many ways to suit time and budget. Enables people with a non-US outlook to meet and deal with the issues they face in a more acceptable manner. Or could have been.

Geer's festival/get-together wouldn't be in midsummer, but was to be in winter (December/Jan).

But that's not how it worked out. It was a power-grab. And even if it weren't a power grab, it could so easily have become a burden on European believers - all have to go to the European event, and then all have to go to the US event.

It still doesn't address transport issues for other overseas believers - in Australia, New Zealand, India, Zaire (who were in fact supported by TWI, yes they were), even Scandinavia, who still have to get over an ocean somewhere. But it did give (or would have given) a choice and perhaps a cheaper option.

Hey! Here's a thought! How about we have the event and just the people who want to come can attend! Now why didn't I think of that before? Or, we could just not have the event and spend more time building up the local areas. That means that people who live outside of the U.S. stay in their own country!! Wow!! What a thought!

If Wierwille had been born in, say, Munich, very few people in the U.S. would have made the trip to his festival.

It is grammatically correct to refer to the former President Bush as "W", and even more grammatically correct to pronounce it "Dubya" with a twang. It is also gramatically correct to refer to Wierwille as "Veepster the Creepster".

Is it grammatically correct to refer to former President Bill Clinton as "Bubba?"

Didn't Wierwille get a doctorate? Yes, the "institution" that supposidely issued it was a joke. No, he didn't have to work very hard for it. The place was more of a degree granting mill, but didn't they give him a doctorate, and weren't they legally allowed to do so?

His "doctorate" is not in theology, it's in homiletics which, according to Wierwille, is the "art of preaching".

By the way, even if he earned his degree from Fuller, or some very prestigious institution it wouldn't change my opinion one iota. He was still wrong with or without a degree.

...and they got formal training-in SALES from the Dale Carnegie organization.

One minor note of clarification...The Dale Carnegie organization per se didn't do the actual training. If they had they would have charged about $400 per person. Wierwille got a PFAL grad who was a trainer with the Carnegie group to do it for free.

Eureka! I left in '89 when LCM issued his "follow me or get out" letter to the staff. All this time I've considered myself a coward for waiting for a large crowd to leave so I could safely leave without bringing much attention to myself. Now I understand things better. I wasn't a coward, I wanted to survive. I don't think I could have taken a direct assault from them on my own at that time.

Thanks for the posts everybody! :)

Two men, two women. Er, make that two boys and two girls. The typical WOW family arrangement at the time. I won't get into the stunts he pulled with me when the girls weren't around, what with this being a family web site and all.

He should have been removed from the field via Super Sonic Transport. Most other organizations would have done so. That would have been pure hell to live with for an entire year. That's sexual abuse, pure and simple. Jerk. By the way, I'm sure there were "stunts" he pulled with every single person he was alone with.

All roads eventually lead back to inerrancy, don't they?... "It all has to fit or the whole thing will fall apart."...Spend the rest of our lives trying to put square pegs in round holes...."No private interpretation"...Oh, heavens, don't you dare find any symbolism that isn't expressly stated....

Where would the fine arts be if everything always had to "fit", I wonder...."Oh, sorry, Mr. Stravinsky, we simply can not allow for this vile dissonance that defies current musical theory. It simply doesn't fit."

.............................................................................

Inerrancy is the scourge of spiritual enlightenment.

Where would the fine arts be if everything always had to "fit", I wonder...."Oh, sorry, Mr. Stravinsky, we simply can not allow for this vile dissonance that defies current musical theory. It simply doesn't fit."

True statement, but it's irrelevant to this topic.

Inerrancy is the scourge of spiritual enlightenment

Says who? What's "spiritual enlightenment", anyway?

Time is running out. Only a couple months left to sign up.

If not now, when?

If not you, who?

CLICK

(I wonder if they're going to throw darts at the map like they did in the original program. LOL)

Did they really throw darts? I always thought that VP, Jesus, Elijah, and Moses all got together along with Howard Allen and strategized, prayed, and fasted for weeks on where to send "God's best, our W.O.W's" (sniff, sniff, weep).

Double post.

Whaddaya mean, throw darts? God Himself chose my WOW brother for me.

ha. ha ha. haha. hahaha. Haha! Hahaha!! HAHAHAHA!!!

My WOW brother was also our family coordinator for the first few months, until our BC finally believed what we'd been telling her and got permission from HQ to demote (but not remove) him. He used to entertain us, his stunned WOW family. His favorite way, one which always got a huge laugh out of him, was to walk out from the bathroom with his thang dangling out his zipper. haha, what a riot. Another favorite was to walk around with an erection that he would suddenly and unexpectedly flash at us. HAHA! Oh my. Those were some good times. You're the best.

He was from the New Knoxville area and knew Dr quite well, he said.

Darts. I wish they'd thrown darts.

Good luck, Sowers! Now you're the best.

Please tell me there weren't females in your WOW family.

Just repeating what someone already said. I didn't read far enough down before I posted. Sorry.

To live for today, and love for tomorrow,

Is the wisdom of a fool.

T

You don't have to do that in front of McDonalds to do it in front of God. Neither of you guys ever used the f word before, eh? Right.

You're right. It's wrong to say that in front of anybody and yes, I've said it myself in front of others. It's even wrong to say it when you're by yourself and I've done that too. I was responding to your earlier post where you commented how genuine, real, caring and compassionate Ralph was being when he told some guy to flag himself. I'm saying he was none of those things at that particular point in time. Frankly, I'm not so sure today that even Ralph would consider this action "right-on".

Ralph's apologized for stuff and I'm not trying to throw him under the bus. Lord knows I've had to do some apologizing of my own as have some other folks who post here.

I realize Ralph is a friend to Greasespot, or at least he gave an interview, but c'mon, telling a guy to flag himself? He didn't care one wit about that guy or the people in that restaurant. And he certainly didn't care about that lady or the little kid. No, he was just trying to impress the Interim Corps guy he was with. Wanting to show he was "cool". Wanting to flaunt his "freedom in Christ" and to show that even though he was ordained he could still use the "f" word in public and for all others to hear.

Yeah, a real, caring, ambassador for God. Yeah, all because he cared about the "feelings" of the Corp guy. I mean, he was more important than anyone in that restaurant because he was "one of God's people", right? So to heck with everyone else so we tell some guy to go flag himself? Really? What a cool guy!

One thing I'll give Ralph credit for is that he could have verily easily started his own splinter group and he had the good sense to stay out of it. He probably would have made more money if he'd started his own thing like so many others did and he would have been worshipped if he'd wanted to go that route.

Double post.

Let's not forget Glad Magazine. (I'm just kidding)

The teaching itself, the knowledge being advertised has always existed was never really "lost" as sometimes inferred - knowledge can't be lost even if the things known no longer existed. Meta-phys-ed-whacky topic I know but worth considering in this context.

That's another thing, this stuff about the mystery being hidden since the death of the Apostle Paul, and uncorked only when VP taught it in PFAL is absolute poppycock. I very much remember sitting through session 5 and seeing the grads with awestruck faces as VP said, "Christ in you etc...." I learned the same thing in church, a lot of people did. I thought, "That's it? That's the big deal?" But I decided I was missing something. Soon I joined everyone in lockstep and became awestruck myself as VP would come on the tape again and go, "Christ in you....! Don't get me wrong. I think the new birth is pretty exciting. I just don't think the truth of that was lost and covered until God showed it to VP, and VP taught it to us.

Great post, Socks. JL would make a better impression on me (not that he needs to, but just saying) if his "ministry" found some way to be self supporting w/o fleecing people of donations. Let the work prove itself as a true ministry, complete with signs, miracles, wonders, etc.

All I have seen from Lynn's group is the same useless rhetoric I used to see in the way international. IE, people going on and on about how electrifying the teachings are, and how amazing it is that we "know" so much more than everyone else. <_<

Speaking of which, I used to think the teachings of TWI and JAL as "electrifying", but when compared to work other people have done, they're mediocre at best. JAL really is an average communicator and not a Bible teacher at all. I'm not saying he isn't a nice guy and a good friend to some. PFAL, the wonder class, really isn't all that impressive either. I, along with most of you, dubbed PFAL as the greatest teaching on the Word of God since the first century. No it isn't. PFAL is a hodgepodge of different points of view of a person. It is not an exhaustive, nor even an introductory view of the Bible. Yes, I realize it's B.G. Leonard's class originally. Regardless, I still have the same opinion of PFAL. It's sad that many started and stopped their Biblical quest with PFAL.

Boo Hiss :wacko: :blink:

I'm sorry you had to see that. At times, I'm swept over by bad puns and I can't help but share them. :wacko:

Old Way musicians never die, they just get tuned up.

BUMP on this thread for the benefit of others who have come to the Cafe recently, and as it seems relevant to another resurrected thread currently on display.

Did VPW lose his eye to a fish hook?

Or to cancer?

Or one to a fish hook and one to cancer?

Whatever...the man lost an eye and the man is dead from cancer. And nobody at TWI was honest enough about any of it. It's GSC telling the other side of the story that has exposed the reason for his death.

I don't care why he died.

I do care that TWI still isn't honest in its dealings with its people.

He taught that cancer was a devil spirit. Not that it was caused by a devil spirit, but that it was, in fact, a devil spirit in itself. So, was Wierwille possessed, or was his teaching wrong? Wait a minute! His teaching can't be wrong since what he taught was the greatest revelation of God's Word since the first century. Wierwille received it from God Himself. So he must have been...no wait! VP was the Man of God and therefore could not have been possessed! So, he was neither possessed and he didn't teach wrongly. Confusing, isn't it? Either way, Wierwille and TWI lose.

I'm not sure if the folks who weren't around while Wierwille walked amongst mortal man can appreciate just how "heavy" this really is. He literally stood up there in front of us and very matter-of-factly talked about how cancer has life in itself and therefore a spirit. He also talked about how disciplined his mind was and that he entertained no thoughts contrary to The Word. He also said repeatedly that God promised to teach him the Word better than it's been know since the First Century if he would teach it to others. Then he died of cancer. The only thing TWI could do was suppress the cause of death. It's public record, though. Anyone can see it for themselves.

Oh, I see. You meant WHY-fore.

I bumped it up because, on another thread (that I can't remember now), someone was singing the praises of VP (He wasn't really a Dr.) Wierwille's work on RTHST.

Ohhhhh!