Abigail

(((Tom)))) Thanks!

I know this isn't the proper forum, but many of my friends post more here than anywhere else. So, I'd like to put this here for now and then the moderators can move it in a day or two if they want (please). My younger son has been getting headaches. A lot of headaches. 5 in the last 7 days and 10 in the last 14. This has been going on for several months now. He does have a history of migrains, but until the last few months he only had 1 or 2 a month, now they have dramatically increased - if they even are migraines.

His pediatrician has tried a couple of medications, they haven't worked. I spent two weeks fighting to get him into a neurologist and finally got an appointment scheduled for July 27th. I've had him in the ER twice. They ran a CT scan and blood work that came up normal. The ER docs can't help us, they say they cannot treat him in ER for a long term problem and his situation (thankfully) doesn't appear to be life threatening. Nonetheless, it has become a debilitating problem. He can't enjoy day camp and I am having a hard time being able to work and take care of him. Today I had to drive 30 minutes to a state park at noon to pick him up because he had another headache. We then spent 4 hours sitting in the ER only to be told he needs to be taken to a neurologist (DUH!).

Tomorrow morning I am going to call the University of Michigan Hospital and see if I can get him in to someone down there before July 27th, if that doesn't work I amy try the Cleveland Clinic. Ideally, I'd like to get him in next week. Please pray that we can get him seen and that we find an answer and solution. I cannot imagine him going another entire month with these headaches and no answers.

Good night, teachme. I am off to sleep. I hope you think about what I said. I think there is a place for you here, we do get the TWI stuff. Not trying to chase you off, just hoping you will put some thought into what you are saying and why. Hoping you will spend some time listening to others as well. You might check out the About the Way Forums. You will learn a lot about how totally corrupt TWI is. How corrupt VPW was. He stole what he taught from others, he didn't get it by revelation. That might be a good place to start reading, some of the threads on the plagarizing VPW did. Those forums are also a good place to vent some of the hurt and anger you may feel because of what happened to you in TWI.

Even the name you have chosen to post under speaks volumes about how stuck you are in that spirit stuff of TWI. Why not TeachmeJesus, TeachmeChrist, TeachmeGod???? Why do you put a man first? Why do you want to follow an imperfect human being?

I get it though, it is hard to undo the indoctrination of TWI. All of us have been there at some point in time. Your mistake is assuming we are still there. We aren't, you are. And that is okay, but it would be nice if you wouldn't put that upon the rest of us.

You have found your way to one of the few places where there is a gathering of people who get the TWI experience. A place where you can find friends. But, part of that process includes being a friend. It includes honestly, humility, respect, etc. etc. We can share our experiences, our varied opinions, knowledge and wisdom. But I don't think any of us wants to lead the body you speak of, that would be overstepping boundaries.

You know next to nothing about me. There is nothing in the Bible, Old Testament or New Testament that "brings me down." What ticks me off, however, is the arrogance you display and the assumptions you make. You come in here first with posts that are so long and badly formatted (i.e. lacking paragraphs) that few can read tolerate trying to read them.

Then you start talking about Pawtucket as if you know something about him. Rambling on about how he is going to bring the body together, rambling about how he has a secret, as if you know the first thing about him.

Then you start a thread that appears to be little more than you making fun of Roy, as if you know something about him.

Then you start talking as if you know something about what any one of us believes, with all of your talk about how we need to be free from the spirit stuff that you still cannot define.

Now you want to speak as if you know something about me?

Projection, teachmevp, that is what that is called. I think you do protest too much and that it is really you who needs to let go of that spirit stuff you keep rambling on and on about.

Just calling out, the body's leader's failed them any way; Martindale clones. The body has many members, each member needs to do their part. But you are a Israelite, I can see how this announcement that Paul made about the body Yahweh told to Paul of which Yeshua is it's head, could bring you down. Do you live in Israel?

Oh and btw, VPW and Martindale were NEVER the body's leaders. They were con artists, frauds, rapists, aduterers, but they were not the body's leaders. By your own bible the only head of the body is Christ. So why do you call someone else the body's leader??????

Their are different kinds of it; like a body of spirit, or a spirit life, or a spiritual existence glory, or the spirit talk to my spirit, or the fruits of the spirits and it goes on and on.

So you think we should give up that spirit stuff that you assume we believe, yet you cannot even define. And then what, should we follow you? Is that your point? That the only way is your way? You are going to teach us now?

WHAT spirit teaching stuff? Do you mean Christ in you the hope of glory? Do you mean the trinity? do you mean the tree spirits, sprites, angels, druids? Pretty much every person who posts here has different beliefs about different stuff. I tossed out darned near everything I was ever taught in TWI and started from scratch years and years ago. I am Jewish.

Cman has beliefs that differ from mine. Sunesis has beliefs that differ from Cman and from mine. Roy (2027) has yet a different set of beliefs. We may have cross over areas where we agree, but we also have difference. And we offer each other respect for our differences and learn from each other because of our differences. You cannot presume to know what one of us believes without asking. You assume we believe something, but you are mistaken.

Oh please, come down off your self appointed pedestal already. What spirit stuff? Pretty damned vague when you think about it. Why do you ASSume any spirit stuff is important to anyone here? We are a diverse group with diverse beliefs. Most of us are long out and OVER TWI. You are the one who still seems to be stuck on Martindale and VPW, not us. And that's okay, everyone works through their stuff at their own speed. But don't project your issues on the rest of us.

While Paul may not spend a lot of time quoting the OT, he and Jesus both spent a lot of time discussing Jewish oral traditions that are not contained within the OT

You sound like you have a lot of stories you could tell. But, while I understand having respect and admiration for a person, you tend to come across as if you worship Ralph.

Pawtucket is not our leader. He is simply a kind man who runs a website. Ralph D. is not our leader. I don't know him very well, but from what I do know of him, I suspect he would not like the title. You are not our leader either. God is bigger than that and we do not need to follow men.

Why do you think there is a mantle that needs to be passed? Martindale ran a multi-level marketing scheme or a cult (depending on your POV). That scheme was started by VPW. There is no mantle to pass. There never was.

I gave it up for lent

I don't know whether what I was doing was genuine or not. I lean toward not. I remember as a child, playing with a childhood friend. We tricked a neighborhood boy into believing I was from another country. I pretended to speak in another language and my friend pretended she understood me. Was I speaking in tongues then and didn't know it? or was I doing what I did as a child when I spoke in tongues in TWI? I may never know. I certainly wasn't raised Christian, although I grew up in a small, predominantly Christian town. Picked up a few things. Even went to Catechism (have no idea how that is spelled) for a time, because my friends all got to go. :)

Whatever, either way, now it just gives me the willies and reminds me too much of TWI. I tried doing it a few times when I couldn't sleep, because SIT always made me sleepy when I was in TWI. It doesn't work for me anymore, it doesn't even help me sleep.

I just have to jump off topic long enough to say Roy, I am really enjoying your sense of humor. I hope you will show us more of it.

One of the differences between Judaism and Christianity (at least more fundamental branches of Christianity) is that Judaism teaches that all people are God's. Christianity (at least fundamental branches of Christianity) teach that only those "born again" or "in the body" are God's.

Here's the thing though. I was able to do what I did because I was mad, I was amused, and I was afraid. I was mad because at that point I was pretty darned sure I had been had. I don't like being conned, not out of money and most definitely not out of 10 years of my life. I was amused, because I knew they would be afraid. They lied, liars are always afraid. And I too was afraid. I had that little nagging doubt, pestering me, "what if they were right and I was wrong?" I had to face that fear and find out. I couldn't spend the rest of my life with that fear eating away at me.

I am Jewish, teachme. And I am not messianic. Does that sum it up? I tossed all that spirit stuff. My fruit is good. That isn't bragging, those who know me would say the same. I am a good person. Yet, I have friends who are Christian, their fruit is good also. Hence my questions to you regarding who is in and who is out and how do you tell.

Not too long after I left, I foisted a close encounter upon them. They were telling people I had taken a break and was coming back. The branch coordinators even told a friend of mine I had been invited to their son's open house and would likely attend. Of course, I never received my invitation, but seen as how I heard it had been extended, I decided to show up. The fear on their faces was worth the trip. :) They knew that I knew, they knew I had been on the internet. They were terrified I'd take others out with me. I didn't have to, they managed to do that all on their own. :)

My twig coordinators' had a son same age as my oldest. Both boys played soccer on different teams. One night the two teams were playing each other and there they were, acting like they didn't see me. I walked up and said hello, asked them how they were. They squirmed. Never saw them at a game after that, even though the two teams played several more against each other.

Of course, that was all a long time ago. I haven't run into anyone still in TWI in probably 8 years now. Not sure if TWI even has anyone left in this area.

You think so? Am I in or out?

Yup. The entire thing was designed to keep us in submission and keep the money rolling in. Now, I refuse to pay homage to any man. Submission did not come naturally to me back then and now I just don't do it at all.

is anybody else is the body? How do you decide who is in and who is out?

In researching that three in one god thing throughout the years; it seems they laid the ground work for the name of Yahweh to be used. They got raid of all that god sacrifice stuff of the Gentiles for us, so we can use that name, many moons ago. Although one could spin a book or something, I would love our teachers and preachers of the body to teach us this matter.

Who are the teachers and preachers of the body? Who are the body?

Abi's statement regarding "speaking in tongues" included a caveat.

"basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life."

For some people, it DID interfere with their ability to function in life.

People used "speaking in tongues" to try to solve all sorts of real-life problems that needed realistic intervention. Things like cancer, depression, poverty, homelessness, personal safety and more. It went hand in hand with the "law of believing". And there is hard core scientific evidence that it suppresses one's ability to think critically, thus leaving one in a state of mental vulnerability. We used it in TWI to self delude ourselves into a misguided allegiance to a corrupt organization.

I have seen those studies too, Waysider! TWI took everything to extremes. The Bible says things should be in moderation, but there was absolutely no moderation in TWI.

Soul Searcher,

There is no one right way. Everyone has to find their own way.

You guys didn't squabble like this when you were "in", didja? (jk)

For what it's worth, my ewf has been shopping "churches" since she left a year ago and can't seem to find anything she's comfortable with. Of course, that's no surprise.

Which raises a question in my mind: Does recovery from the cultish aspects of Way theology imply, or necessitate, a "recovery" from the doctrine? Wouldn't it...shouldn't it?

Just wondering.

There are still thousands of believers who still ascribe fully to Way theology warmed-over.

Not everything TWI taught was wrong or bad. In fact, I would say they had a lot of principals for living a good and decent life right. Where they really, really blew it was in how they applied those principals, in how rigid they became. For instance, take the law of believing. The basic concept isn't bad. There is nothing wrong with picturing yourself accomplishing something and then taking action to meet that goal. However, there is something very wrong with condemning someone for no "believing big enough" to get healed without the help of a doctor.

Speaking in tongues. Well, basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life. Personally, I no longer pratice it and I am not convinvced it is genuine, but still . . . harmless if it isn't hurting anything or anyone.

So, some find their way to new churches. Some become agnostic, some athiest. Some re-research what they were taught, keep some things and toss others.

For some, going to church is a wonderful thing. It offers community, a place to worship, a place to study, a place to give. However, I don't believe there is anything in the Bible that requires one to attend church.

I go to the synagogue when I am moved to do so. I am far more centered around my family, my immediate community and my friends. I am not particularly comfortable with joining a religious organization. Been there, done that. I have no desire to build my sense of community, my friendships, etc. upon little more than a common belief system. I want more common ground with my community. I want more diversity in my life. I want exposure to vastly differing opinions and beliefs.

I also do not want to feel contrained to a particular doctrine. I do not want to fear expressing a differing point of view regarding God, morals, ethics, rituals, etc.

That said, when I first left TWI, I attended a Vinyard Church for a time. I chose it specifically because I had already met the minister and he knew of TWI, what they were about, what they taught, etc. I was somewhat comfortable there, because I didn't have to explain my background, it was already understood. It was a very peaceful experience for me and I met some very kind people.