Abigail

James said: "If you are not going to Synagogue on Shabbat and hearing the Torah read and taught, Acts 15 has no application to you."

WordWolf said: "Well, since you're determined to end your understanding there and INSIST that Christians are supposed to follow all the Law of Moses,

I see I'm going to have to be more obvious."

What is obvious to me, WordWolf, is that James would put Christians under laws that do not even exist for Jews. There is no law requiring Jews to attend the synogogue every week! Indeed, there were no synogogues, nor was there even a temple when the laws of Moses were given.

A lot like us, except that we didn't start a splinter group, we don't recruit followers, and we don't ask for tithes and donations. Just a few minor details.

Information about his false degree can be found HERE There are other websites that deal with this claim as well.

HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.

It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have all disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!

Well the Theocracy does not exist and will not exist again until Messiah returns, so we are not authorized to carry out penalties. As a result death was replaced by disfellowshipment. That was the case in Yeshua's day as well.

Other than that I am not sure what you mean.

The dietary laws are for all generations forever, just as the whole Torah is.

And there it is. James would put you under laws that even God didn't put you under. Fail to follow his way and you become marked and avoided. Any of this sound familiar? Oh and if you have looked at his website/blog/whatever it is, on the very front page he asks for Tithes. And there you have the real root of his mission - a money grab.

WHO IS THE WAY?

The Way in the Scriptures is a Torah Observant sect of Judaism known as “Nazarene” with roots in Essene Judaism.

Any organization claiming to be “The Way” and teaching that the Law is not for today, is a false “Way”.

James Trimm

Worldwide Nazarene Assembly of Elohim

A follower of the [True] Way

So James would put you under laws that God never intended everyone was to live under? Judaism teaches that the gentiles were to follow the Noadic laws. The Mosaic laws were given specifically to the Jews, who made a specific covenant with God to follow them.

I accept your apology for not reading fully what I wrote. That explains why you make mistakes in your understandings by not taking in to consideration everything that is written.

The KJV story book quotes Noah as being perfect. Do you want to deny that also?

These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God. { perfect : or, upright} (Gen. 6:9) KJV story book, legitimately deny it if you can? (your alleged evidence is?)

Composer, I wasn't apologizing. What does "perfect" mean in old English?

Are you then claiming the site - http://whatjewsbelieve.org/ is misrepresenting Jews?

Perhaps you could contact them and show them why and get back to us with your evidence and their responses?

My personal email is: franjac1@westnet.com.au when you think you have the legitimate evidence to support your claims against them.

First of all, Composer, there is no single organization that can attest to what all Jews believe. That is part of the beauty of Judaism. Our traditions bind us together, but there is also great room for differing points of view regarding what the Torah means. Hence the pages and pages of Rabbinical arguments regarding numerous topics. Secondly, the fact that you can pull something from a website and quote it does not mean you actually understand the words you have quoted.

Oh! so you wash your hands of the story book Jews having the story book Jesus crucified, I knew the bible was a lie, the text false and this Jesus never existed.

Thanks for confirming that.

Finally, just because the Bible says an event or series of events happened, it does not mean that God put his stamp of approval on the event. Again, it is clear you do not understand what you read. You read as a child who takes everything literally and assumes God approved of every eaction the biblical men and women took.

I antagonise and insult no one, they do it to themselves by making outrageous claims they can not legitimately substantiate. I simply provide the facts as they shoot themselves down and embarrass themselves with it.

The more posts I read by you the more apparent it becomes that your problem isn't with Christianity or religion, it is one of simple comprehension.

I'll also be most pleased for you to confirm again the bible tells repeated lies including exposing your Jewish religion as a vicious and violent one that stoned people to death for criticising or disagreeing with its beliefs?

Yes, Judaims has violence in its history. All of mankind has violence in its history. Wars over religion, tribal wars over territory, wars over corporate greed. Some are rooted in religion, others are not.

My premiss is accurate even by the very fact that not a single so called christian outside the story book has ever legitimately obeyed nor manifested the story book promises to a genuine story book Jesus believer. Mind you I have only been personally searching for 50 years. LOL!

What are the story book promises that no one has ever manifested?

James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground. I would warn those of you who are kind hearted enough to want to assist in educating this person about TWI. He will take what he learns and use it in his attempts to manipulate you.

A simple GOOGLE SEARCH and you can learn about his false Ph.d and many of his deceptive practices.

For someone to have this many negative websites designed specifically to expose him . . . well, like I said, he has more negative press than even TWI has.

FWIW, one of the websites discusses how he at one time purported to have involvement with the Mormons so he could recruit among them as well. And then there is the allged Jewish upbringing, and . . . . you tell him of TWI, you give him amunition.

James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground.

Composer, I posted my previous response without reading your entire last post. Frankly, you were so completely off the mark with your Noah remark that my gut response was that the rest of your post wasn't worth taking the time to read. But, I came back and read it anyway. Pretty damned funny, you telling me all about what the Jews believe, because I AM Jewish.

And I have to say, I find it quite offensive that you would use my religion (which you don't seem to be a follwer of)to insult and antagonize those of another faith. That is most definitely NOT the Jewish way. So, while you can quote scripture and you can quote other sources, you plainly do not understand the meaning of the words you are quoting.

In the process, by the way, you completely changed the subject. You started this thread by quoting the Bible and claiming because you didn't know anyone who followed that particular passage of scripture, these people were imperfect and therefore false Christians. It is your premise that is false (as I already showed you), not the Christians you are attempting to disparage.

Composer, first of all you are barking up the wrong tree, I am not a Christian. Second of all, you clearly do not understand much of the story book you keep quoting from. Noah was righteous yes, but perfect he was most certainly not.

Exactly my point, James. The problem for you is going to be that these people have already been sucked in by one false prophet, they aren't going to be so easily fooled again.

Your intentions ring loud and clear in your lengthy posts. You wish to preach and teach and win followers to your way. Your responses likewise indicate you have no interest in discussing and learning from others because you already believe you know more than anyone else here.

[size=4"

Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give the money25 to the poor, and you will have treasure26 in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matt. 19:21) NET story book (My bold)

So far, the tally from my requests at other forums remains at: genuine christians = 0 and christian frauds with pathetic and pitiful excuses for their disobedience and failure to obey their alleged master = 100%

Over to you. LOL![/size]

Composer, as I understand Christianity the idea is that the only man who could be perfect was Jesus. If the rest of humanity was capable of perfection, there never would have been a need for a savior. So, I guess I am not following your logic (or lack thereof) or what it is you think you have scored with this post.

I would say much of the art of modern medicine is pretty miraculous.

My Messiah is Yeshua and if you advocate rejecting the incarnate truth, then that tells us enough about your credibility.

Yeah, well good luck with that James. Most of the regulars in the doctrinal forum have known me for going on 10 years now and we have had many discussions about Torah, about our lives and families. And they know what about you, exactly????

My Great uncle is Jewish. He lives in Adare, Ireland, but the closest synagogue is in Cork, after that, Dublin. He refuses to wear his kippah in public, and claims that going to synagogue would be "work", and that breaking God's rules to obey other rules of God, is senseless. There is no synagogue in Limerick, although there used to be. And a little anti-Semitism goes a long way. The riots in Limerick over a century ago are still remembered. There aren't a lot of Jews in Ireland, and My Great Uncle thinks that all this talk of any Messiah having already come, is foolishness. 'If the "messiah" had come, he would have fixed things!'

Irish Jews, from what I've seen growing up, probably do more drinking than other Jews around the world do (at least, on a regular basis), and they know when the Sabbath is. It's Tam's day off and a few cold ones to relax. Last year a couple of Hasitic Jewish Rabbis visited him. He said they started telling him stuff to do. He invited them to buy a house, stick around for a while, and he'd consider their 'wisdom'. As Tam tells it, they declined and left the country the following day, that following day being Sunday. Funny that.

Gen, your uncle is right. If he is stricly observant and if going to synagogue would require him to drive a car, then he would be "working" and thus breaking one of God's rules. There is nothing in the Torah that requires one to go to the Synagogue on Sabbath. That is tradition, and it is a good tradition if one can keep it, but it is not law. And yes, the Sabbath is to be a day off. A day of rest. In fact, on the Sabbath the Chabad women have special clothing they wear which is designed to be particularly comfortable for just that reason.

You cannot equate going to synagogue with going to church. Judaism is centered around the home and one's community. Remember, in Torah there was only one temple and most people could not travel from their far away lands every week to go to temple. Rather, they only went for specific high holidays, and even then not all could make the trip. Synagogues were designed after the temple was destroyed. They allow the Jewish people to have a community with each other i and to worship with each other in a more modern civilization.

Chabad does NOT reject Messiah. Perhaps they reject YOUR Messiah, but they most certainly do not reject Messiah.

and yes, yes I would regard Rabhbinic Jews as a better authority on Torah.

James, I am a long time poster here at the cafe, though I do not post often anymore. I am also Jewish. I have read your posts since you first arrived here. While others attacked you, I maintained an open mind. For a brief period I was excited that there might actually be another poster here who understands Torah from a Jewish perspective. Clearly, I was mistaken. It is apparent from your posts that you like to appear intellectual, educated, and scholarly, but you most certainly do not get Torah at all.

In fact, I would say most of our Christian and Pagan regulars here in the doctrinal forum get Torah better than you do.

James, you cannot pull a a few verses out and claim that sums up everything written on the entire subject. Well, you can't do it with any integrity anyway. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where people rightly proclaimed the dishonesty that another was partaking in.

BTW, this is a discussion board. That means we share a few thoughts, concepts, verses, resources etc. We then discuss the topic with others, giving some amount of respect and honest consideration for what the other participants have to say and then perhaps responding to it. You aren't participating in discussions, you are preaching. One would have to have an awful lot of free time on their hands just to get through one or two of your posts!

Or, if one wants a reliable source for information on "lashon hora" one could go to Chabad.org and look it up there. Or look it up on Jewfaq.org or a number of other websites designed by people who actually practice Judaism, study Torah, and understand it. Which, btw, James clearly does not.

BTW, James, using yourself as a source does not add validity to a logical argument/discussion/debate. For that, one must use other reference material.

No doubt this is a fascinating discussion.

Could somebody please synthesise the arguments or post a synopsis or give bite-sized chunks?

I'm all for rooting out Weirwille rubbish and misdirection, but I need something accessible that is of interest, before my eyes glaze over with excess of words. It's excess of words that got us all into trouble in the first place.

Every time I read James' posts the phrase "straining at gnats" keeps going through my head. It is a lot of wordsmithing with no apparent real understanding of how to live and love. It is exactly as it was in TWI. Make oneself sounds scholarly and intellectual by arguing about words. Its a shell game.

I have not responded to many questions because the most efficient way to do so would have been to cut and paste. There are few doctrinal issues I have not already covered in my books and articles. however I have been asked not to cut and paste and more, so that leaves me having to spend hours recomposing what I have already composed.

I have no need to put myself on trial here. I just spent nearly a year in discovery and depositions preparing for trial by TWI and in the end they chose to settle rather than go to trial. I have no intention of now being the subject of a witch trial by ex-TWIers.

Our beliefs must be big enough to include all of the facts, open enough to be tested, and flexible enough to change.

If anyone wants to discuss doctrine then you can email me at cleartruth@yahoo.com

If you want to engage in Lashon HaRa and Slander attacking me rather than my doctrinal arguments, then enjoy yourselves.

Lashon HaRa is the sin of using words as a weapon to harm someone.

It is amazing how many people who would never think of picking up a baseball bat and attacking someone with it, will take up words (true or false) and use them as a weapon to attack a person. This is as wrong as picking up a baseball bat and using it as a weapon. And the man who says that he is only repeating what he read or heard, is like a man who uses a baseball bat to attack someone and then insists that he is not responsible because he did not manufacture the bat!

My response to the slander about me is here:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

And my response to the false claims of Copyright Infringement and Plagiarism of the HRV are:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8850000/8850159/1/print/jstrimm3.pdf

James, it appears as if you came here to recruit, therefore you have opened yourself up to a trial of sorts. You want to preach your propaganda then the people will try you, if they are wise, before they follow you. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice . . . .

Also, you clearly do not understand the true concept of "Lashon HaRa."

hi abi

can you tell me why you started this thread? thanks

ExC, I just thought it was a funny article. Cracked.com does a lot of "spoof" and humorous articles. I read them, they make me laugh. I thought I would share this one. It made me laugh at myself where I see myself. It made me laugh where I see others in it too. Not in a mean way, but sort of in the same way we might laugh at a family member who we know is not perfect, but who we love anyway.

I've been away from this place for a long time. The first time I walked away for a lenghty time I came back and I found everyone irritated me, even those who I was once close with. I left again for a long time. Now I am back and I am not irritated. Instead it is more like seeing old friends and remembering how silly we could be some times.

I think sometimes we take ourselves and/or each other too seriously. It is good to laugh. Laughter is good medicine.

Is it just me, or does it seem as if Composer by and large ignores anyone he can't argue with or take a jab at, and only responds to those he can?

I thought this was quite amusing, particularly because I have seen these techniques used from time to time.

You can find THEM HERE

And if you enjoy this article you may also enjoy: Personality Disorders Caused by the Internet

You are not alone, Luna. Many of us here can relate to how you feel. BTW, I really like your name.