Thomas Loy Bumgarner

To all who have responded to this thread, I suggest reading Karl Kahler/Carl Collyer's The Cult That Snapped

A Journey into The Way International,especially the Chronolgy(pp.i-v); Chapter 2, pp.7-10;Chapter 4, pp.31-

50; Chapter 6, pp.55-76; Chapter 8, pp.93-112; Chapter 10, pp.117-130; and Chapter 13, pp. 167-184.

Titles for above mentioned chapters are A Lot of Stuff Kids ; He did it His Way ; The Hippies Turn on ; The teeth of God's Love ; Rows of Weapons ; and The master Student, plus postscript entitled Millennium on pages 271-274.

Raf, see my reply at LES, which in a single word is NO! You still serve a purpose, bro.

Mark,also Moravians practice both infant and adult baptism. Most of the groups you mention usually by their teenage years have Catechism and Confirmation.

You may also want to try www.bookfinder.com and type in Victor Paul Wierwille, or do a google search on his name.

I know this has been brought up before in other threads, but does anyone have the following CD's of the various groups : Pressed Down, Tom Lepinski, Stevie Kay, Joyful Noise, Rock of Ages 1971-1975 or have these record albums been converted to CD format? I am willing to pay $20 per CD. Thanks! TLB

I proably was one of the few who spoke and interpreted in tongues not using KJV language and common expressions. instead it was more college level English like "I have spead out a banquet table of my many promises for you to feast upon, so my children partake and enjoy my loving goodness" or "Be like the wind

and bees that pollinate flowers, so spiritually matur in my Word". How many of you did Interpretations or prophecy like that?

I still think that Walter Cummins, as well as John Lynn, Ralph Dubofski, and Gary Curtis, plus Peter Wade would have been far better choices than Craig. They might have been opened to new research biblically speaking and really make TWI an ecumenical, interdenominational organization. At least it couldn't have been any worse, could it?

Dear Groucho, tried both website and snail mail, but got no response. Of course, this was back a few months ago. Had better response from Peter Wade. BTW, either of these 2 gentlemen would have been far better as

President of TWI than toy-boy Loy. In case you are curious, there was a Lutheran pastor named Matthias Loy

who in the early 1800's was from Ohio(believe it or not) and several people started naming their children after this pastor which explains how my grandfather Elvin Loy Bumgarner,Sr., my father, The Reverand Elvin Loy Bumgarner,Jr. and I got that name. But as for Craig being from OK and getting that name, well you know, it's a Mystery. If anyone knows Walter's phone number, just pm me. Thanks!

John the Baptist and the priests practiced what is called mitkvah, which is purification rite.

To Nato, Confused, Argus and other newbies, Welcome to GSC. I am the resident Lutheran poster to these

forums. You might want to check out the thread on My Story forum. I am a church musician, took Pfal in '75,

left TWI in Dec. 1979.

Belle, I hope that pic wasn't the weenie roast , or is that HQ staff SNS meeting? LOL

Argus, Welcome to GSC. Don't know about Martindale, but rumors have suggested that his former wife

Donna Lombardi Martindale was bisexual/lesbian, especially with the present president Rosie Rivenbark.

Mark, you might be interested that Lenoir-Rhyne College has been for the last 12 years been sponsoring an

Aquinas-Luther Conference on various topics. Although Luther did say "sola scriptura", today we proably would say scripture as primary souce, Lutheran confessions as secondary, church Fathers as tertiary level. Lutherans do have tradition, both historical and denominational.

Mark, I happen to be Lutheran, in fact ELCA(Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) which signed with the Holy Roman Catholic Church the recinding of the condemnations in October 31, 1999. I am an Evangelical,

Catholic, Orthodox Christian who happens to be a member of a denomination whose leader was a German monk, priest, and mild reformer unlike Jean Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, or John Knox who were more radical. I am personally very High-Church liturgically(organ, sanctus bells, incense, icons, stations of the cross, etc) who relunctantly does Contemporary Christian Praise Music only to attract outsiders to the faith. So be careful about being anti-protestant since must Catholics would disagree with you, and I have many who are my friends as well as the Eastern Orthodox community. Thomas

When I attended Mrs. Wierwille's funeral, i didn't see Reverand Cummins whom I assumed would officiate at

the service. Anyone know his whereabouts?

I guess everyone is at the wiennie roast, that is if they didn't get flooded out. When I first heard of it, I thought they were talking about VPW and LCM and their sexescapades, so my mistake. Jellystone Park, eh?

Smarter than the average bear, boo-boo. Remember what MR. Ranger, I mean Hameroni said Yogi. So, Ham how was your coronation, I mean inaugaration ball? Now, can we get back to the topic at hand? PS, next time I'll bring the booze(schnapps, beer, wine and Drambuie/scotch/rum, etc). Still trying to find a single or divorced woman to cuddle with. If Ted can do it, then I still have a shot at it. We now return to our previous program already in progress.

We also teach Luther's small and large catechism to our teenagers and our adults study the Augsburg Confession and its sequel called the Apology/Defense(not a retraction but a further commentary). We also use Service book and Hymnal as well as Lutheran Book of Worship and With One Voice for traditional liturgy,

while for Contemporary we use Worship Together and Songs for Worship DVD's.

I'm surprised that TWIHQ doesn't declare Wierwille road private property and kick out other farmers such as Popee by making it a gated community with security guards posted on both Ohio 29 entrance and Shelby County road entrance/exit. Go ahead and purchase/buy out everyone on both sides and build new facilities on the Highway 29 entrance. But I bet Shelby county residents won't take that too kindly and may sue TWI in county superior court or state court, and we know Rosie doesn't need this headache.

I mentioned earlier about Via Del Christo/VDC, the Lutheran version of El Cursillio de la Christiandad, as well as other expressions such as Teens Encounter Christ/TEC, Pathways, Emmaus Road, Tres Dies, Kairos,

and Epiphany(last 2 are prison ministries) which includes 3 day retreat at a camp/conference center and is very busy with activities for Christian believers(not seekers/inquirers) and includes almost 20 talks, not lectures with again small group discussions on these "ideals" in the walk with Jesus. There is no brainwashing/programing minds to "groupthink", plent of food, 9 hours of sleep. However, this is not for everybody, but neither does it create cliches/factions within congregations(or shouldn't) of "Super Christians

with all the answers" versus the ordinary believer. Instead, there is strong encouragement of the concept of the one body of Christ and each individual with their own gifts and talents bring diversity to the health of the church.

Alpha session 1: Christianity-Boring, untrue, and irrelevant? Christianity is public truth. If true for some, then true for all. If not true for anyone, then it isn't true for everyone. See Gospel of John 14:6. Objections and Misconceptions like What does Christianity have to do with life? Directions for a lost world. Hunger for meaning and purpose; First order questions of life- What am I doing on Earth? What is the point of life> Wher am I heading?Reality in a confused world, Does it matter what we believe? Truth understood and experienced. Life in a dark world-Created in God's image, fallen in sin, forgiven in Christ. men and women were created to live in arelationship with God. Leo Tolstoy was left asking"Well fine, so what?"to which he had no answers. Life without a relationship with God is like a television without an atenna. I used to think I was a nice person because didn't rob banks or murder people. Christ died toremove our guilt and to set us free. He died instead of us. Beginings session 1: John 3:1-16.So, is this all there is? If your house were on fire and after saving your family and pets, you had only time to rescue one item, what would it be? A lot of people sum up their basic approach to life by using bumper stickers they place on their cars: Normal people worry me, my karma just ran over your dogma, Money isn't everything but it sure keeps the kids in touch, compost happens, it is as bad as you think and they are out to get you. ordering"sea monkeys", Can you remeber a significant time of yearning to experince God? Where were you? How did you respond? Did you try to forget it? Did you feel unnerved? Did you embrace it? Do you now have a yearning to know more about God? I won't put up the other sessions, but hope this gives you a taste for it. Thomas

Raf, are those your relatives? As for Mike, it's time for him to take his medication for hallucination and paranoia. Anyone who by revelation says Jesus is coming back with PFAL and other Wierwillean books in his hands is not mentally sound. Where are the attendants with the strait jackets and tranqualizer darts?

I'll give some quotes later on from Alpha and Beginnings, but am in a hurry.

I want to go back about Wierwille preaching to the trees, squirels, rocks and so forth. My a Protestant version

of St. Francis of Assissi. Too bad he didn't live according to the prayer associated with Francis. As the Church

lady character on Saturday Night Live(Dana Carvey) would say" Isn't that special? Could it be Satan?'.

Mike, you as well as Allan and Oldies/Phil Spector(shouldn't use your real name when posting if using an alias) are like a broken record/scratched CD. If Wierwille had footnoted/endnoted and provided a bibliography on PFAL, RTHST, ADAN like he did for JCNG, JCOP, and JCOPS, we would not be having this discussion. Check out my post on Alpha and similar classes now being offered by mainline denominations and compare them to PFAL and WAP. And don't sulk and act like spoiled 2 year olds. You are suppose to be Adults and mature, not whiny brats not wanting to share your toys. Sorry if that hurts, but its tough love.

For more info, click on my church's website at www.holycrosselca.org about Alpha and also to see my pics of me and various musical groups. Thomas