Kevlar2000

I dunno, I always thought it was one of his made-up stow-reees, simply for purposes of illustration. I wasn't under the impression it was a real group.

Although, with the rise of the fringe religious groups in the '60s and '70s, it didn't seem completely implausible.

Any "innies" want to comment on this?

(I know you were waiting for that. And I hate to make people wait. )

Cost is $100..........???

Milk that cash cow......till the day she drops.

If the innies.....especially the 50-somethings.....re-up their "membership in this buyer's club of pontificating" and fork over $100 for some re-hash of a re-hash....then they deserve to be scammed.

Unbelievable.

If I were a "long-time" innie, I might ask myself at this point,

"So, I took Wierwille's 'foundational' class,

And I took Martindale's 'foundational' class,

And now I'll probably be required at some point to take this new 'foundational' class.

What was wrong with the 'foundation' I had?

Maybe I don't really need to take this class."

What's most disturbing to me is knowing in another 4 years (when I hit 55), I'll be eligible for senior citizen discounts at a lot of places. I don't feel so senior!

Of course, I plan on taking full advantage of it!

I took my dad shopping for Rockport shoes the last time I was in NY. The clerk said they gave a 25% discount to AARP members. I whipped out that membership card so fast I think I gave myself a paper cut.

...on eminent domain, TWI could claim it and kick off the Poopees from their farm and property, making it a gated community with a gatehouse at both ends of Wierwille Road/State Highway 74.

Even with the recent Supreme Court watering-down of this Constitutional protection, any acquisition by a public governmental entity has to be shown to be for the eventual public good.

Since TWI isn't a public entity, they do not have eminent domain rights or priveleges. Nor do I think they would have any claims under any adverse possession laws.

I guess my question to those who are still in the Way and are Advanced Class "candidates" is,

Do you really think it's worth it?

All of this intrusion into your personal life? This scrutiny of your finances (which, unless you're staff, the Way doesn't help you earn)? The anal-retentive obsession with your clothing choices? The ever-present, ever-increasing flaming hoops of requirement, every one of which you must leap without question, unsinged by the taint of common sense and independent thought?

Especially you who have taken this class in the last five years or so. Did what you learned in the Advanced Class make you glad you sacrificed any semblance of a normal lifestyle?

Did you learn substantially more about anything (especially the operation of the "revelation" and "impartation" manifestations, if they're even called that anymore) than what you knew before? I didn't learn much more about "operating the manifestations" then I had before I got there...and I attended the Advanced Class in Emporia in 1978.

And most, most importantly...Did you have a closer, more intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ after you took that class? Did you love him more? Respect him more? Even think of him more often?

If not, then what's the point?

Was this trip really necessary?

ome that gave me feedback before cutting me off said I was, along with some others, cutting down what "Doctor" taught and that PFAL should never be fooled with.

Because...

In the beginning was PFAL, and PFAL was with God, and PFAL was God.

As long as you understand that, you'll understand their perspective.

You're not criticizing a man's work.

You're criticizing God Almighty and everything He is.

It's sad, but when people hear that sort of thing, they do react in different ways.

Yes, and usually the reaction (even if it's unspoken, you can see it in their expression) is,

"Former cult member, eh? So how big a flake are you?"

If the subject comes up (which it hardly ever does anymore), I just say I was affiliated with a high-demand religious group, and left when their demands became too high.

If they want to know how big a flake I am, they'll have to spend some quality time with me.

...2) Expressing genuine remorse for the error or mistake...

Why hasn’t TWI come out and expressed great sorry and immediate zeal to correct all the practical and doctrinal error that they used and allowed to ruin people’s lives?

To express sorrow and remorse, one usually has acknowledge they did something wrong, and have to be sorry they did it.

I don't get the sense they believe they ever did anything wrong.

People give what they want to give. Most churches teach the tithe and leave it up to the person how much they want to give. Hence another example of twi doctrine going way over what the "Word" says. They made it mandatory to give and squeeze the life out of people. Yeah they really cared about all the "leaves" on the tree. They cared about the cashola, nothing more.

Most churches understand without being told that tithes ("abundant sharing") are completely voluntary, and cannot be forced from their congregation. Any attempts to do so will result in, at a minimum, their membership leaving in droves. At most, it could lead to criminal prosecution for extortion.

It seems the Way International attempted to insert its control hooks far too deeply, and now are learning a bitter lesson:

you can only &^(% with people for so long, and then they will turn on you.

*singing the Ren and Stimpy "Happy Happy Joy Joy" song*

Have a great birthday Radar!

People have not been taught how to understand things like figures of speech, Eastern customs, what revelation truly is, and the accuracy of the Word. Our ministry provides this service and direction.

The implication being, no one else except us knows about this and can teach you about this.

None of the Way's research on any of this is original, so of course others know about this and offer information concerning these subjects. Today, one only needs an internet search engine to do their own "research" into these subjects.

"Our ministry provides this...direction."

We'll tell ya what ya needs to know, keeds. Because it's what, class?

The Way, The Way, and nothing BUT the Way! That's riiiiiiight!

. What time is it: 13:00 hrs.

2. Name: Kevlar2000

3. Nickname: Kev20

4. Piercings: none

5. Recent Movie: The Passion of Joan of Arc

6. Eye color: brown

7. Place of birth: Maryland

8. Favorite food: just about anything you're making. No onions, brussel sprouts or eggplant, please.

9. Ever been toilet papering? no

10. Love someone so much it made you cry? Yes

10 a. Ever hate someone so much it made you cry? No

11. Been in a car accident: Yes

12. Favorite day of the week: Saturday

13. Favorite restaurants: Macaroni Grill

14. Favorite Flowers: Whatever I can get to grow.

15. Favorite sports to watch: Orioles baseball, Ravens football

16. Favorite Drink: nonalcoholic: water;

16 a. alcoholic: Guinness

17. Favorite ice cream: Breyer's

18. Disney or Warner Brothers: Pixar

19. Favorite fast food restaurant: Burger King

20. What color is your bedroom carpet: light brown

21. How many times you failed your driver's test? passed it the first time.

22. Winter, summer, spring or fall: fall

23. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: Marshalls or Eddie Bauer

24. What do you like to do when you are most bored: sleep

25. Bedtime: 10 pm

26. Favorite TV shows: Battlestar Galactica, Smallville

27. Last person you went to dinner with: My daughter

28. Ford or Chevy: Toyota

29. What are you listening to right now? Italian Renaissance madrigals

30. How many tattoos do you have: none of which I'm aware.

31. How many pets do you own: none any more

32. Which came first the chicken or the chicken egg? the devilled egg.

"I'm having an opportunity"

And I would think, "Make sure you name it after me."

... vacations to exotic locations, new cars, healthclub memberships, and spa outings were total fantasy for 95% of the peons, but reality for many leadership - even having a savings account was possible for leadership - it seems the peons lived way more on a needs basis than leadership did!

But ChasU, you're not seeing the issue properly.

As good and faithful stewards, walking in the love of God in the renewed mind in the household, steadfastly holding forth the prevailing word of truth as a candle to a darkened world in this day, time and hour, they are standing against all manner of unrighteousness and wickedness, and, lest the evil one tempt our people by having an overabundance of worldly mammon, desire to count it all joy by a re-distribution of physical non-necessities so that the spiritual man may arise in the hearts of the household so that we may stand firm and erect at the Bema.

Yes, it might be good to let our people in our Household fellowships enjoy the fruits of their own labor...

But is is best?

*tongue firmly in cheek*

Thanks guys!

I'm sorry I didn't see this until now, but I appreciate your good wishes.

The point is, POP resulted in a tremendous amount of gradual exits, as opposed to the 'banishments from the kingdom' that seemed to be popular in the 90's.

I would guess the reading of the Passing of the Patriarch paper indirectly caused some, like myself, to leave.

I had not actually read the paper, nor do I remember if it was discussed when some of us twig coordinators were told of the other crap happening with the Way.

But I do know the leaders who were honest with me about what was going on were leaving "the ministry".

The limb leader who told us half-truths and evasions, who started to demand more of our loyalty and time, stayed with "the ministry".

I finally decided enough was enough.

I told an "innie" relative that "God told us to leave."..........................

"oh really?" was the response.

Do you think she believed me? :unsure:

Bliss, I've been disassociated from the Way religion for almost 20 years, but I would almost bet money their unspoken thought was,

"Which god?"

(And I didn't even need Word of Knowledge for that one.

Just chalk it up to genuine spiritual suspicion.)

Ah hell, let's just burn him as a witch...

Why? Does he weigh as much as a duck?

(A reference to the witch burning scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, for those who are wondering)

...most of us in the early days did come directly from Doop's or Heefner's ministry, not VPW's ministry. In fact, without them, I doubt VP would have made much impact at all.

Absolutely. I had not even heard much about Victor Wierwille until close to the time I took the PFAL class in 1972. All my exposure to the Way was from the people who came weekly from Westchester County and south to visit our fellowship.

I can pretty much guarantee I would not have taken a bible class which was primarily presented to me by a middle-aged preacher. It was the enthusiasm, clarity, commitment, and sureness of people at or near my own age that sold me.

In fact, when I took the class (presented on a reel-to-reel Wolensak tape player), I was kind of put off by Wierwille's preachy style of speaking.

She just found out the Word really isn't over the world.

That does suck. My sympathies, Wayfer Not.

I would keep your boss informed of the conflicts you're having, and make sure you are doing what your boss wants you to do, not what your co-worker wants you to do.

And, if all else fails, keep your resume up to date.

Good luck (ha, I said "luck"!)

Hi Wayfer,

What is "PTO"? Personal Time Off, or something like that?

I work in state government, and am boggled by the amount of leave you all receive. We accrue 1 week of vacation leave, 15 days of sick leave and 7 days of personal leave when we start. After 5 years, we accrue 2 weeks of annual leave, up to 5 weeks after 20 years. The sick leave and personal leave accruals remain the same. We can accumulate as much sick leave as we can. 50 Vacation leave can be carried over into the next year, and the 7 personal days have to be used by the end of the year or they are lost.

All leave must be approved by that person's manager, and is generally granted unless there is evidence of abuse or it negatively impacts work.

It certainly sounds like it's being abused where you work.

Being a newbie really has it's disadvantages, and it's harder when supervisory staff don't support the people who actually do the work.

Some of the things I've found to help me is:

Do the best job you can do (which I know you're already doing);

Which should make your boss look as good as possible (not always the easiest task in the world);

Which may get your work noticed by others higher in the government food chain. If they're at all cognizant of what goes on in your office, they may reason, "I'm noticing an improvement, and I'm pretty sure it's not coming from Supervisor X, so what's different? And who's this Wayfer Not person, anyway?"

If you get the opportunity, talk to others outside of your immediate sphere of responsibility - make yourself, your hard work and your goals known. Somebody will notice.

"The newbie will move on to bigger and better things while the 13 year veteran still complains they don't make enough money"

Remember - living well is the best revenge. :)

...M & A (God that sounds like S & M)...

And they like it that way.

Hi Gillian,

One thing that I try to remember when I read missives like that from people still associated with the Way...

We were once where they are now. But we aren't any longer.

She might be harboring doubts of her own, and may be trying, via Wayspeak, to communicate with someone whom she knows is no longer required to parrot TWI edicts.

In any case, should you choose to pursue this, keep your ears open, your mind alert, and your heart guarded.

As far as "See Ya At The Bema",

I have no problem with the phrase *See Ya At The Bema*. ...as far as that phrase goes ---*See ya at the bema*

it's just one more way to say *see ya later!*

We used to have a saying when we parted, "See you here, there, or in the air!" But this was a generally friendly farewell, rather than an oblique way of saying, "P1$$ off!"

Just out of idle curiousity - Was anyone who posts or lurks here a part of that WOW branch?

(besides me, of course)

It was a fairly large group that year; around 7 or 8 WOW families. I just wondered if any of them ever come here.

Or, for that matter, is there anyone here who was introduced to The Way by any of those WOWs in that area that year?