Belle

Wow, def, that "study" you presented was about as relevant and about as substantial as the study that My3Cents posted earlier regarding: Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'. And, thanks for seeing what my point was in posting that information. :) I maintain that we are ALL sinners and NONE of us is perfect, THEREFORE, it's none of my d@m* business what someone else's sins are or aren't. FURTHERMORE, not everyone believes the same thing. What I might think is a sin someone else doesn't. Judging and focusing on someone else's sins does me no good whatsoever and in TWIt words, "has no profit in it." Besides that, if vee pee apologists will remember vee pee said that ALL SINS ARE EQUAL! Not one sin is more "sinful" than another. Remember all those X's he put on his poster board? All of 'em are bad. Not one is worse than another in God's eyes. So who the heck am I to worry about my brother or sister's sins when mine are just as bad in God's eyes? Judging and avoiding and not helping, loving and caring for one another is also sin! Besides that, by behaving that way, we miss out on so much in life and on getting to know someone who could make a difference in our lives. I know some of you prefer to “pick and choose” which parts of the Bible you want to believe, follow and obey and a lot of the vee pee apologists don’t give much credence to the teachings of Jesus, but this is how I try to look at things: Luke 6:22-37 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep. Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

How about a ball on a friction-less incline.....does it roll or does it slide?

Come on, STL, you were in TWI, weren't you? ;) Some people still have the TWI mindset that THEY and what THEY know and have to say are more important and "better" than anything or anyone outside of TWI's doctrinal bondage. I was one very self-important person when I was in TWI and considered those who wouldn't listen to, much less agree with me, as ignorant low-life body & soul scum...."empties walking by" - "no better than an animal" in LCM vernacular. Obviously some people learned very well and STILL have that egotistical attitude. Mo, those gentlemen made more of an impression on me than I think I EVER made on someone the whole time I was in TWI combined. :) They are certainly more "Christian" in their attitude, behavior and presence than most of those who hold fast to the TWI doctrine and continue to defend vee pee and all things TWI.

WOOOO HOOOO!!! Gonna be a PAR-TAY!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MOONY!!!

Get out your barf bag! Someone loaned me their STS tape from last month to try to prove to me that TWI was better. What I heard was the same ole – same ole. This could have been a tape from two or three years ago – in fact, I had to check the date on the tape to make sure it wasn’t! Anyway, here are some notes I took from the tape. I skipped through parts of it, but I think you’ll see enough to recognize the same BS we listened to in TWI 2. I haven't finished, but I also don't want this to get too long for people to read. :D I've tried to be consistent in keeping my comments in italics and stuff from my notes in regular or bold. August 7 Emcee: Chavoustie Opening prayer is exactly the same and they are still only calling God, “Almighty God”, “Heavenly Father” or just plain “Father”. This was an edict given ex cathdra by the spitting son of Belial before his demise -Almighty God, our Heavenly Father -Thank you for Your Son -Thank you for the path he blazed -Thank you for the accuracy, integrity and solidity of your wonderful, matchless word -In this day and time -Stand upon -Solid foundation upon which to stand -Walk out with resolve and with commitment -Thank you for the BOD -Thank you for continuing to work in them mightily -Thank you for our teacher -For all the Word He has worked in his heart -Thank you for those who joined us here Visiting by bus and by car are believers and guests from the Cleveland, Toledo, Bowling Green and Miami Valley Branches So, they’re still forcing people to caravan into HQ. Gawd, that bus ride from FL up there was awful! I told my ex when we got there that next time we were flying!! I wanted to fly home, but he wouldn’t let me. -Thank you, Way Productions. That was tremendous! How many times did we hear that?? Even after they played songs that are over 10 years old…. What better way could there be to redeem the time than to listen to the great teachings from God’s word - the edifying and encouraging Way Prod - on the Sunday Teaching Service? Did you know the rightly-divided word has been sounding out from International Headquarters through the Sunday Teaching Service tapes for over 40 years? … Starting back in the ‘60s…..the Sunday Teaching Service tapes have enabled men … to stay tapped into the heart of headquarters. Still pushing the tapes and using them to brainwash yourself by listening to them over and over again. These tapes have helped men & women, not God. Did anyone see that? Also, the same freaking terms used over and over again! Can’t they get at least a few new words in their vocabulary? What better way could there be to introduce a new person to our Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry than by showing them a recent copy of the Sunday Teaching Service? We’re not concerned about teaching people about God or just helping them. Nope, you want to introduce them to the ministry. Sell them on TWI. That’s your goal! Get it! Got it? Good! Prayer for money Same stuff here. -Heavenly Father -Thank you for all your goodness to us -Your bountiful supply to US, your people -We walk out on the great and precious promises of your word -Thank you for the confidence and trust that we can have in Your ability to supply -That you can supply our each and every need according to Your riches in glory by Christ Jesus. -Thank you, “Father” for this abundant sharing for the continued outreach of the prevailing Word The Teaching: Don Lomax Building Biblical Understanding: Walking Worthy for God - Very thankful to the Board of Directors for the privilege to teach God’s Word - Our topic of emphasis is The Rise and Expansion of the Christian Church in the First Century and in this teaching, we want to consider how can God’s Word expand with greater impact That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God. Colossians 1:10 -Considered and thought about the impact that our ministry has already had over the years. Over the past 60 something years … ministry …. had tremendous success and impact in reaching people with God’s word. As a ministry, we have accomplished what God inspired in the heart of our founding president, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille—the Word over the World. That is impressive!! We have moved God’s Word over the World. Still promulgating this lie! In the November/December 1995 Way Magazine, there was a “Prevailing Word Report” regarding this great accomplishment. … International travel and electronic communications have virtually eliminated the geographic barriers of our day and time. Language and cultural barriers have been substantially minimized as well, thereby making God’s Word available to anyone who hungers and thirsts after righteousness. Like TWI actually used any “electronic communications” to accomplish that ethereal goal…. We have moved God’s Word over the world. I think about the internet. The Word is available on www.theway.org. Just sign on! BUT, only sign on to that site! Don’t build your own. Don’t go to anyone else’s. And for God’s sake – STAY AWAY FROM THE CAFÉ or you’ll get POSSESSED!! It’s been over ten years since we have accomplished that awesome vision and goal of the Word over the World. Now, we are taking the prevailing Word to the world. How can God’s Word expand with a greater impact? By each individual believer putting on more of God’s Word. Same stale answer! “Put on more of the word!” WTF??? The more God’s word grows and abounds in our lives and in our fellowship, the more it can expand with a greater impact in our day and time. It can have great impact in the lives of the people we know and love in our communities … wherever we might live. That’s how we do it; we put on more of God’s word in our minds individually and collectively first, and then we move out holding forth the greatness of God’s Word with all boldness and we will see God’s word expand with even greater impact in our day and time. Does that say anything practical? Does that give any specifics? I thought this was a “how to” ministry! This is the same vague b.s. rhetoric they’ve been shelling out for as long as I can remember…. “put on more of the word” – “hold forth the word” – “make a great impact” blah, blah, blah….that doesn’t teach people anything! As we delve into the great accuracy and integrity of this word, we’ll see in doctrine and in practice what it is first to walk worthy—what does it mean to walk worthy? Then we’ll go to Acts and we’ll see some of the practical benefits and blessings of walking worthy of the Lord—in particular, walking in peace, walking edified and walking with respect for God and in the comfort of the holy spirit. He never does give concrete answers for these points he says he’s going to cover. The theme verse: For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding: Colossians 1:9 “Filled” means to be filled to capacity. We fill our minds and hearts with God’s Word. “In all wisdom” indicates that we are not only filled with knowledge but “wisdom” Wisdom means knowledge applied. It’s not just getting a bunch of head knowledge of God’s Word. Wisdom means knowledge applied, the right application of knowledge. It is skillful application. Pity they don’t teach THAT! See any TWIts actually DOING anything? All I see and hear and remember being told is to share all that “head knowledge” they pushed on us. “Spiritual understanding” which is the opposite of natural knowledge. Spiritual means things that belong to or proceed from the Spirit Who is God. DUH! Spiritual understanding is a byproduct of building our Biblical understanding. We build our Biblical understanding and we get that great spiritual understanding, because these words in God’s Word are spirit and they are life. I thought GOD gave us spiritual understanding. That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God. Colossians 1:10 “That” is purpose. …. Later “that” is “impact”, but TWI doesn’t P.I. – right! So we are filled with this knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding that…. God not only wants us to be filled with the knowledge of his will - he wants us to increase. So you get filled and you increase. That’s tremendous! Does anyone see anything of value in this section? It sounds like bombastic repetition to me. “Worthy” means balanced. It is a balanced walk. The balance is in knowing the doctrine, the true standard, God’s Word, and then doing it, living it, and practicing it. \ Again, pity they don’t actually practice what they preach. “Unto all pleasing:” Hebrews 11:6: “But without faith (believing), it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Believing pleases God. We believe God’s Word—that is pleasing to Him. “Fruitful;” we can be fruitful. Fruit is good! We want to be fruitful in every good work. “Increasing:” we want to grow from the vitality inside in God’s Word, by that knowledge of God’s Word. Victor Paul Wierwille wrote from God’s Magnified Word, page 16: “We walk worthy of the lord by being fruitful. Not only fruitful, but increasing in the knowledge of God. The more knowledge of God’s word we have, the more fruitful in every good work we can become. The knowledge of the Word and its application will produce fruit.” That’s the practical application of walking worthy of the Lord. You increase, you put on more of God’s word, and then you apply more of that word. Your life will produce fruit. Okay, this was 30 minutes of listening to the same stuff being said twenty ways to Sunday….what a waste! God has no favorites. This is how we benefit from the greatness of God’s Word. As we apply these principles faithfully, we reap the results. This is how any of us grow. God has no favorites, eh? No favorites INSIDE TWI, you mean, but we know that isn’t true either. Apply principles faithfully aka do what we tell you those principles are or you’re screwed.

DANGIT! We should have a private e-mail that goes out to everyone here when somebody finds a site like that. That way we can participate if TWI doesn't know the site exists and the TWIt doesn't get put on probation or M&A for trying to do something innovative.

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAY WISHES COMING YOUR WAY, LIFTED!!

Just a little bit more on Gay History and the Church...... GAY SAINTS? The Catholic church knowingly canonized gay saints. Paired saints Serge and Bacchus, and saints Polyeuct and Nearchos were canonized and the church wrote of their love for each other as a part of their holiness. Serge and Bacchus were Roman soldiers who refused to sacrifice to the idols of the Emperor and sentenced to death. Bacchus was executed first, Serge was tortured in an attempt to get him to worship the idols. Serge had visions of Bacchus, in which he would comfort him and urge him not to give in so that they might be together for eternity. Finally Serge was executed, and the couple was canonized as martyrs. Polyeuct and Nearchos were similar, they were also Roman soldiers, martyred because of their Christian faith, and in love with each other. Metaphrastes described them as one soul in two bodies, joined by boundless love. Polyeuct converted to Christianity because Nearchos was going to be executed for being Christian. Polyeuct wanted to be executed with him so that their souls would be united forever in the kingdom of heaven. GAY MARRIAGE? Just one example. Basil I, founder of the Macedonian dynasty, was married to two men, both ceremonies were conducted by ordained clergymen in a church. The second marriage is the most interesting. While visiting Greece Basil was approached by a woman who offered him a dowry if he would marry her son, John. There is also evidence that there was a legal family connection, as well as a spiritual one. John's mother was legally recognized as a relative of Basil by marriage. GAY POPES? Priests (and therefore Popes) were not required to be celibate until the eleventh century, and some took full advantage. John XII-a bisexual pope who held orgies in the papal palace. Benedict IX-a homosexual pope who also enjoyed hosting orgies. Alexander VI-a bisexual pope who was not going to let his fun be spoiled just because he became pope after celibacy became mandatory. He fathered at least 8 children and had many male lovers. Julius III-a homosexual pope who respected his vow of celibacy, but had a male lover before taking that vow. Paul II-Possible transsexual pope? His tendency to wear lavish and feminine clothing earned him the nickname "Our Lady of Pity." CARTMAN, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Jewish philosopher Philo Judaeus was the first to write that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they accepted homosexuals and that the Levitical verses about homosexual acts did not apply only to religious ceremonies. He didn't write until the first century a.d., and the interpretations of these stories by the Jewish teachers and philosophers at the time were very different from his. His writings were rejected by Jewish scholars, who ridiculed him for writing such absurd things. A KING AND QUEEN IN ONE? King James I, the author of the King James Version of the Bible, was bisexual. He had affairs with many women and men, but the love of his life was George Villiers, who became the Duke of Buckingham. Think they were just good buddies? Read this from one of his letters to Villiers. "I desire only to live in the world for your sake, and I rather live banished in any part of the world with you than live a sorrowful widow-life without you." He defended their love before the Privy Council, saying "You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else...I wish to speak on my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect." James I had the Henry VII Chapel remodeled to include side by side tombs for himself and Villiers so that even in death they would not be parted. In 1628-George Villiers, lover of King James I of England and Earl of Buckingham, was assassinated by John Felton, a former naval officer, in Portsmouth. His grave is in Westminster Abbey, beside King James. Quote of the day: I'm a supporter of gay rights. And not a closet supporter either. From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the gay community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being, by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant. -Paul Newman 1995-Stats on gay marriage: Denmark began registering same-sex unions in May of 1989. As of this date in 1995, a total of 2,760 couples had registered, 1898 female and 862 male. The total divorce rate was 264, making the divorce rate 9.5%. Quote of the day: Jesus Christ had the same and cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my sweet George. -King James I of England, responding to charges of an "unnatural relationship" between him and George Villiers

Hi IrishEyes! She is wonderful, isn't she? I love seeing that she's been posting when I come to the GSpot. :)

Sorry, Alan, but I will not let some label-making vicious wanna be Christian attack people unprovoked and belittle what THEY believe to be true. ESPECIALLY people on here who have shared their hearts, lives and genuinely tried to help people, regarldess of what label you slap on them. vee pee has lambasted his own teachings and his own credibility. He doesn't need any of us to do it, we're just pointing out what's already there. If you can't have an adult, respectful discussion or debate then you really shouldn't be here. Some of us may disagree on here, but we do it with respect (for the most part) - you don't ever. Every post you make that's vicious and uncalled for will be reported by me. One of us will get banned because I will bug the H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS out of Paw and the moderators till they do something about your behavior - it's totally uncalled for.

There was a discussion about rewards in the Doctrinal section once. I can't remember what all it was about, but I do remember the rewards NOT being anything like what TWI taught. IMO, doing "works" because you're aiming to get "rewards" removes the heart of doing the "works" and invalidates any "rewards" you might get. It's like everything else TWI teaches - you follow the legalism they teach and then you can make DEMANDS of God.

LOL! How quickly they forget. I can't say anything, though, I literally ran down the hall in a hospital once because a lady who worked there had been put on probation. I saw her at the Coke machine and turned and ran the other direction before she saw me. I was terrified! :o Now I realize how silly that was.

No More??? They're gonna quit making you read regurgitated vomit?? I know! Craig has written another book about being faithful to your wife and taking care of the flock of God. It's going to be the new foundation for the coming year.

Uh, do I owe someone on here a thank you? :unsure:

David, I just saw that you aren't going to be able to make it either. :( I'm so sorry!! I really was looking forward to meeting you and hearing some of your pickin' & grinnin'. :D Sudo, not sure if that's a compliment or a southern-style insult. I'm sure you've gotten pretty good at those, at least you didn't finish law school there, or I'd really be concerned. I've had my share of good times at The Grove, but I much prefer wearing comfy jeans to ballgames instead of coiffed hair, pantyhose and a dress. It's too dang hard to keep from spilling 7&7 with high heels on and those nice blouses inhibit my cowbell ringing abilities. :D

Happiest of Birthdays to You!!!! B) :P :D :P B)

More famous gay and lesbian people. Note how many are in political positions. I deleted most of the actors/actresses/authors, etc. - especially those most people are familiar with. This information comes from Wikipedia. Alan, I'd say you might want to focus more on problems at home instead of harrassing people here given how many elected gay and lesbian people you have down there. ;) Persons of confirmed homosexual or bisexual orientation The following list includes those people who have confirmed their homosexual or bisexual orientation or whose homosexual or bisexual orientation is not debated. A * Jane Addams, American social reformer * Edward Albee, American Playwright (Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?) * Alexander the Great, Macedonian King and conquerer of Eurasia, bisexual * W. H. Auden, British poet B * Francis Bacon, British painter * Francis Bacon, British philosopher and scientist * Tammy Baldwin - member of the U.S. House of Representatives (D - Wisconsin) * Alan Ball, writer (American Beauty, "Six Feet Under") * Samuel Barber, U.S. composer * Clive Barker, Author, director, artist, known primarily for his work in the horror genre * Tim Barnett, New Zealand member of parliament * Roland Barthes, French literary theorist * Katharine Lee Bates, writer of "America the Beautiful" [1] (http://www.lesgo.com/articles/america.html) * Terry Baum, American playwright and congressional candidate * Simone de Beauvoir, French philosopher and novelist * Leonard Bernstein, U.S. composer and conductor, bisexual, Aldrich, Robert and Wotherspoon, Gary (Eds.) (2001). * Ole von Beust, mayor of Hamburg * Elizabeth Birch, former head of Human Rights Campaign, longtime partner of Hillary Rosen (see below) * Anthony Blunt, British art-historian and traitor * Josep Borrell Fontelles, Europarlamentary from the PSOE (an Spanish marxist party) * Ben Bradshaw, British politician * Scott Brison, Canadian member of Parliament and Minister of Public Works and Government Services * Bob Brown, Australian senator C * Julius Caesar, Roman dictator * Caligula, Roman emperor * Jean Jacques R�gis de Cambac�r�s, French lawyer and statesman, author of the Code Napoleon * Chris Carter, New Zealand Minister of Conservation, Minister of Local Government and Minister for Ethnic Affairs * Roger Casement, Irish patriot * Michael Cashman, British actor and politician * Ralph Chubb, British poet, artist, printer, and prophet * James Clark, British ambassador to Luxembourg * Roy Cohn, associate of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy * Aaron Copland, American composer, documented in Howard Pollack's biography, Aaron Copland: The Life and Work of an Uncommon Man * Henry Cowell, highly influential American composer * Aleister Crowley, occultist D * Libby Davies, Canadian member of parliament * Jeanine Deckers, Belgian nun and singer-songwriter * Bertrand Delano�, mayor of Paris * Samuel Delany, science fiction author * Elio Di Rupo, Belgian politician * Roman Dmowski, Polish politician, black mailed by the Okhranka, Imperial Russia's secret police * Joseph Douc�, psychologist and Baptist minister, founder of the International Lesbian and Gay Association * Alfred Douglas, son of John Sholto Douglas and partner of Oscar Wilde * Marcel Duchamp, artist, inventor of the found object E * Brian Epstein, British, manager of The Beatles * Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and The Rhine * Uzi Even, first openly gay member of the Israeli Knesset F * Per-Kristian Foss, Finance Minister of Norway * Michel Foucault, French scholar, partnered with Daniel Defert from 1963 till his death, Aldrich, Robert and Wotherspoon, Gary (Eds.) (2001). Also dated Jean Barraque. * Pim Fortuyn, right wing dutch politician * Barney Frank (D, MA), US Representative G * Greta Garbo, actress * Federico Garc�a Lorca, Spanish poet and playwright, martyred in the Spanish Civil War * David Gerrold, science fiction writer, inventor of Tribbles * Andre Gide, French novelist and Nobel Laureate * Neil Giuliano, Tempe, Arizona mayor, declared himself homosexual in public * Brian Greig, Australian senator * Gorgidas, Theban military leader of the Sacred band of elite troops of paired gay lovers. H * Han Aidi(BC27-BC1), Chinese Emperor in Han Dynasty. * G. H. Hardy, British mathematician * Michael Huffington, American politician, bisexual J * Michael Jeter, American actor, "Mr. Noodle's brother Mr. Noodle" of Sesame Street * Jeffrey John, Church of England priest * Mychal F. Judge, Franciscan priest, WTC terrorism victim K * John Maynard Keynes, British economist * The Hon. Justice Michael Kirby, Justice of the High Court of Australia * Jim Kolbe, member of the U.S. House of Representatives (R-Arizona) L * Laurier L. LaPierre, Canadian broadcaster and Senator M * Ashley MacIsaac, Canadian fiddler from Cape Breton * Peter Mandelson, Britain's EU commissioner * Joseph McCarthy, U.S. politician, see http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/joseph-mccarthy * James McGreevey, U.S. politician and governor of New Jersey * Margaret Mead, anthropologist * R�al M�nard, Canadian member of parliament * Michelangelo Buonarroti, Italian Renaissance artist * Harvey Milk, American politician * Glen Murray, former mayor of Winnipeg, Manitoba N * David Norris, Irish senator, James Joyce scholar [3] (http://www.iol.ie/~atticirl/norris.htm) O * Daniel O'Donnell, American politician, brother of Rosie O'Donnell * Eoin O'Duffy, Irish police commissioner, leader of the 'Blueshirts' and aide to Michael Collins (Irish leader) P * Brian Paddick, UK Police Commander and nephew of Hugh Paddick * Hugh Paddick, British actor * Paetz, Archbishop of Poznan * Matthew Parris, British journalist and former politician * Harry Partch, American composer and just intonation instrument inventor * Patrick Pearse, Irish patriot and leader of the 1916 Easter Rising, whose poetry is littered with homoerotic imagery * Plato * Michael Portillo, former UK Defence Secretary and defeated leadership candidate * Francis Poulenc, French composer, openly gay from his first serious relationship, that with painter Richard Chanelaire to whom he wrote, "You have changed my life, you are the sunshine of my thirty years, a reason for living and working." He also said, "You know that I am as sincere in my faith, without any messianic screamings, as I am in my Parisian sexuality." (Who's Who, 2001) R * Gene Robinson, American Episcopal bishop of New Hampshire * Svend Robinson, former Canadian member of parliament * Ernst R�hm, leader of the Nazi SA * Bayard Rustin, civil rights activist, organizer of the 1963 March on Washington, introduced Martin Luther King Jr. to the writings of Mahatma Gandhi and non-violence, fired for being gay S * Marquis de Sade, 18th century author and philosopher * Bill Siksay, Canadian member of parliament * Mario Silva, Canadian member of parliament * Chris Smith, UK Politician * George Smitherman, Canadian politician (Ontario cabinet minister) [4] (http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/102303smithermanCabinet.htm) * Solon, Greek statesman * Jim Stork, US politician * Gerry Studds, US politician * Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Roman dictator T * Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Russian composer * Alan Turing, British mathematician, computer scientist and theorist * Colin Turnbull, British anthropologist, later American citizen, Buddhist U * Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, German activist, author W * Horace Walpole, 4th Earl of Orford * Sumner Welles, U.S. Under Secretary of State 1937-1943 * Guido Westerwelle, Leader of the German liberal party FDP * Johann Joachim Winckelmann, German classical archaeologist and art historian * Klaus Wowereit, mayor of Berlin Y * Felix Yusupov, Russian prince

Like it or not - Consider it sin or not - Many, many famous and influential people in history are/were gay and the world (AND CHRISTIANITY) would be very different (and I think, worse) without their influence. It would be difficult to envision or recognize a civilized world without the contributions of gays and lesbians. The following is from http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!51.../index.html President Gerald Ford might have died in 1975 because a gay ex-marine Oliver "Bill" Sipple would not have been alive to push away the gun of an assassin in San Francisco. The United States, Britain, and the other Allies might have lost World War 2 because Alan Turing, a gay British mathematician, would never have been born. Turing broke one of the Nazis' most important codes (German Enigma Code) to help shorten the war. African-Americans might have struggled longer before receiving civil rights because there would have been no Bayard Rustin, the gay man who organized the 1963 March on Washington. This the march where Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., made his famous "I Have a Dream" speech. Religious life would have been lessened without the Christian voices of Malcolm Boyd, Troy Perry, Jane Spahr or John McNeil. Christians would also have a difficult time conceiving the New Testament without the scholarship skills of Desiderius Erasmus (the basis for the Tyndale and King James Versions). Our musical world would have been impoverished because gay American composer Aaron Copeland would have never been born. Russian composer Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky would not have existed, neither would have Leonard Bernstein, English composer Benjamin Britten, or singers Bessie Smith, Melissa Etheridge, or Elton John. Katherine Lee Bates would have never written: America the Beautiful O beautiful for spacious skys, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains majesty above the fruited plain... America, America, ...God shed his grace on thee, and crowned thy Good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea. (yes, Katherine Lee Bates wrote the patriotic song America the Beautiful, and she was a lesbian and she had a domestic partner) We would have also missed the folk songs of Stephen Foster or the clever compositions of Cole Porter. We would never have listened to the "Sweetheart of Sigma Chi" or "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" -- both were written by gay men to their lovers (in both cases, publishers demanded that gender pronouns be switched). Western art would look very different because neither Michelangelo or Leonardo da Vinci would have been around. And of course, we would have missed Plato and a woman Plato honored with respect as the "tenth muse" -- Sappho. The Disney movie hits "The Little Mermaid" and "Beauty and the Beast" would have been much duller because Howard Ashman would not have been live to write their Academy Award winning songs. Or imagine "Star Wars" or "E.T." or "Schindler's List" without the scores of John Williams. Literature would have been lessened because many authors would never have been born, including Pulitzer Prize winning poet W.H. Auden, Nobel Prize winning author Patrick White of Australia, E.M. Forster, Virginia Woolf, Willa Cather, Gertrude Stein, and Walt Whitman. Movie theatres would have been duller: no Rock Hudson or Marlene Dietrich or Montgomery Clift. Actually, many of the most important plays of the American stage would never have been written because gay playwright Tennessee Williams would not have existed. We would have also missed the plays of Edward Albee or the brilliant acting of Sir Laurence Olivier. Who else would have been missing? Sports stars like Martina Navritalova or Greg Louganis or Brian Orser would be gone. The list of people who have had significant same-gender relationships is very long and includes Socrates, King Richard the Lion Hearted, Queen Christina of Sweden, Eleanor Roosevelt and so many more.

Allan, once again, you refuse to read what's written and, once again, show your ignorance and ridiculous agenda. :huh: Read what Mo said - what she REALLY said and not what you WISH she had said just so you could pick a fight: CLEARLY, Mo is saying that she believes that the inaccuracies being taught came from the teachings in TWI and NOT from the Bible. Geeze, Man, just because you disagree with some people's decisions in life doesn't mean you need to go twisting and attacking every post they make. You're just opening your mouth and removing all doubt regarding how stupid and UN-Christian you are. Mo, did you see my "Knocking on My Door" thread? I started it just for you! :D

Soon there'll be a mandatory attendance announcement made to the Ohio Valley Region to make sure the auditorium is packed for the "Anniversary Celebration". About fifteen people (just a guess) will be "ordained" as Way Disciples and sent to work for free at HQ and Gunnison. New suckers will go on staff at HQ, giving up good jobs, great benefits and any additional retirement and savings (including my ex). Is this also when the WC graduate (maybe more than five this year?)? Given the vagueness and word-smithing to avoid giving out solid numbers to how pathetic their "Rise and Expansion" has become, they will probably continue this tap dance. These are notes from 2001 when they were extremely vague about how many people they reached. I believe the precise information was that they had witnessed to tens of thousands, hundreds came to fellowship and many signed up for the class..... I'm sorry, I don't have the original poster's name documented. :(

From August 10, 2001. Sorry, I don't know who posted it, but there's even more confirmations now that TWI is deadly evil and yet people continue to support and praise them. Thankfully we have GSpot here and other sites to prevent them from taking over some lives and to help restore those who have been where we once were.

OM, don't read things into the book that aren't there. It's talking about people in the midst of the abuse, not those who have realized what they were doing. I don't know about you, but I did try to do everything I could to keep the leadership appeased and to keep from getting kicked out until I just got so darn tired of running on that hamster wheel. Maybe YOU didn't do this, but some of us did. It doesn't mean we did it forever or continue to do it forever..... Geeze, Man! Think! :blink: :huh:

WW, it's from some notes I found looking for some SQL code on an old CD of mine. My ex threw my copy of the book away, so I'm note sure if it's a paraphrase or a direct quote, but the verbiage doesn't appear to be similar to mine, so I think it's a direct quote from the book. Since we have so many new people on here and some of them haven't read the book, I thought it might be timely to revisit this information. If I'm doing something wrong, please let me know. :)

"These are from some of my notes on the book, 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse'. It's got lots of useful information I thought might be good to bring up again given we have some new people at the counter. My ex threw away my copy of the book, so I don't have it to compare and pull out the direct quotes. If you haven't read this book, no matter how long you've been out or been in, I highly recommend it! When you read this you're going to think these people are from TWI, but they're not. :o And that's scary! It’s Not Your Fault One of the great keys to healing from spiritual abuse is to realize that it wasn’t your fault. God did not punish you for your faults and shortcomings. Quite often when people are physically, mentally, sexually abused they will be overwhelmed with the guilt that the abuse was somehow their fault. For instance a rape victim may feel that they are to blamed for the rape along with the attacker. The victim often thinks that they did something to lead on the attacker or to deserve the abuse. You CANNOT entertain these thoughts if you want deliverance. If you were abused then someone else took advantage of you. The abuser is in the wrong not the victim. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. We cannot condemn ourselves if we want deliverance. We cannot wallow in guilt. We have a personal adversary who wants to condemn us and put us in guilt. Satan, the devil, is our adversary. He wants to hinder us, attack us, and abuse us whenever he gets the chance. Abuse is the devil’s fault not the victim’s. Galations 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? Galations 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. Our adversary has a full time job which is: stealing, killing, and destroying. He is the one responsible for the spiritual abuse that occurs in Christian’s lives. Once the victim realizes that the abuse is not from God and the abuse is not the victim’s fault, but that the abuse is the adversary’s fault, then the victim has taken the first step towards healing, deliverance and recovery. Stop the abusive influences I like to call this key "Stop the mouth of the abuser" or "Separating yourself from the abuse" This means that you have to get to the point that what the abuser says no longer has an influence on you. So if the abuser’s words still have an influence on you then you must get away from the abuse. In physical abuse situations the victims will be removed to a "safe house" for a while. You may have to get rid of books, tapes, and magazines that are from the abusive organization. You must remove yourself from the abusive influence for a while. This may take days or years depending on how bad you were abused. Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. The abuser’s mouth must be stopped. However quite often we can’t actually get the spiritual abuser to shut up, but we can remove ourselves from the abuser so that we no longer hear and are influenced by the abuser. Once the victim has been separated from the abuser then the healing process can begin. When the victim is separated from the abuser then the process of stopping the mouth of the abuser has begun for that victim. The process is complete when the abuser has no influence over the victim at all. Then for the victim the abuser’s mouth has been stopped, even though the abuser may still be talking. Eventually when you are healed the words of the abuser will no longer hurt you. 2 Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Whether the abuser is a truly evil false prophet or a good man making bad mistakes. You must cut off the influence of the abuser. 1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time We submit to God and we submit to other believers, but we do not submit to spiritual abusers. We resist the abusers by submitting to God.