Belle

Folgers Frenc Roast if we get a choice. :P Want me to pick up Cokes? Breakfast stuff? How many of us is there going to be? Mama's bringing S'mores stuff for Sat night Snack food? I can pick up munchies at the grunchy (grocery) store. I'll PM my cell phone number to y'all so you can call if you get there and realize we need something else.

More excerpts from the website mentioned above: It may also include a common tactic of "a number of people have emailed me backchannel to agree with me". This is standard bully-speak which I've experienced on several forums. In every case it's a fabrication or a distortion - usually the former. When challenged, the identity of the alleged complainants can't be disclosed because it's "confidential". The purpose of this tactic is to wind people up. Don't be fooled into believing it has any validity - it doesn't. The objectives of bullies are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react. It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful. After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more your try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them. Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner with a disordered individual who's emotionally retarded. The Number One rule for dealing with this type of behaviour is: don't respond and don't engage. This is not as easy to do as it sounds. It's a natural response to want to defend yourself, and to put the person right. However, never argue with a serial bully; it's not a mature adult discussion, but like dealing with a child or immature teenager; whilst the serial bully may be an adult on the outside, on the inside they are like a child who's never grown up - and probably never will. Although you may be the target of the cyberbully's anger, you can train yourself to act as an observer. This takes you out of the firing line and enables you to study the perpetrator and collect evidence. When people use bullying behaviours they project their own weaknesses, failings and shortcomings on to others. In other words, they are telling you about themselves by fabricating an accusation based on something they themselves have done wrong. Whenever you receive a flame mail or hate mail, train yourself to instinctively ask the question, "What is this person revealing about themselves this time?" Sometimes refusing to respond and engage will result in the cyberbully losing interest and going off to find someone easier to torment. Sometimes though, especially if there has been interaction in the past, the cyberbully is so obsessed that s/he cannot and will not let go. When called to account for the way they have chosen to behave, the bully instinctively exhibits this recognisable behavioural response: a) Denial: the bully denies everything. Variations include Trivialization ("This is so trivial it's not worth talking about...") and the Fresh Start tactic ("I don't know why you're so intent on dwelling on the past" and "Look, what's past is past, I'll overlook your behaviour and we'll start afresh") - this is an abdication of responsibility by the bully and an attempt to divert and distract attention by using false conciliation. B) Retaliation: the bully counterattacks. The bully quickly and seamlessly follows the denial with an aggressive counter-attack of counter-criticism or counter-allegation, often based on distortion or fabrication. Lying, deception, duplicity, hypocrisy and blame are the hallmarks of this stage. The purpose is to avoid answering the question and thus avoid accepting responsibility for their behaviour. Often the target is tempted - or coerced - into giving another long explanation to prove the bully's allegation false; by the time the explanation is complete, everybody has forgotten the original question. Both a) and B) are delivered with aggression in the guise of assertiveness; in fact there is no assertiveness (which is about recognising and respecting the rights of oneself and others) at all. Note that explanation - of the original question - is conspicuous by its absence. c) Feigning victimhood: in the unlikely event of denial and counter-attack being insufficient, the bully feigns victimhood or feigns persecution by manipulating people through their emotions, especially guilt. Variations include indulgent self-pity, feigning indignation, pretending to be "devastated", claiming they're the one being bullied or harassed, claiming to be "deeply offended", melodrama, martyrdom ("If it wasn't for me...") and a poor-me drama ("You don't know how hard it is for me ... blah blah blah ..." and "I'm the one who always has to...", "I'm the one being bullied..."). Other tactics include manipulating people's perceptions to portray themselves as the injured party and the target as the villain of the piece. Or presenting as a false victim. Sometimes the bully will suddenly claim to be suffering "stress" and go off on long-term sick leave, although no-one can quite establish why.

This is from a link that WordWolf posted. I want his thread to remain on topic and I do not want to contribute to the further derailment of other threads, so I'm posting it here in its own little section of cyberspace. :) I am not going to feed the monsters anymore, but I think it's very interesting how closely these descriptions of a sociopath fit a few of the cyber bullies we seem to have here: The source of this information comes from: Bullies Those who can do Those who can't BULLY Serial bullies harbour a particular hatred of anyone who can articulate their behaviour profile, either verbally or in writing - as on this page - in a manner which helps other people see through their deception and their mask of deceit. The usual instinctive response is to launch a bitter personal attack on the person's credentials, lack of qualifications, and right to talk about personality disorders, psychopathic personality etc, whilst preserving their right to talk about anything they choose – all the while adding nothing to the debate themselves. Serial bullies hate to see themselves and their behaviour reflected as if they are looking into a mirror. Projection Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves. It is a key identifying feature of a person with a personality disorder or psychopathic personality that, when called to account, they will accuse the person who is unmasking them of being the one with the personality disorder or psychopathic personality from which they (the bully) suffer.

Can you have Paw send Alan down there with him?

Sorry, Paw, I dunno. I'm still using my turntable and 8 track player....

Anyone I know worth their salt doesn't use telling people they got revelation from God to promote themselves, they just act on whatever "revelation" they receive. And, true, Bliss, God is supposed to work in us first, but think about how bad TWI got and how if you said God told you something, but leadership disagreed with it, they would tell you God told THEM the opposite or they'd just flat out tell you to do what they wanted you to do. Then they further took control by telling you that even if it was "bad" direction that God would cover because you were "obeying leadership" like you're supposed to do according to Hebrews and Romans.

Bliss, you're probably thinking of Don's kids: Laurie, Kristin and Ralph. Laurie married Matthew Harmon and they have a little boy named Donnie and I think another child. They lived in the house with Mrs. VP W and Don's wife. I imagine they still live there with Wanda. Kristin went into the WC after graduating from college and teaching for a couple of years. I'm not sure where she went after that. Ralph is married and has kids and he's the one in Denver, I believe. Those are the only Wierwille's I know still involved.

Of course, Ham, that also has to be based on the assumption that the Bible IS the God-breathed word and that there are no errors in it in any way, shape or form. It also assumes that the Bible is True and that Adam and Eve were real people. :) Just to give you more to chew on. :D What if it's just a story? What if it was taken from another culture's explanation of the origin of man? You know a lot of OT stories exist in many other religions and cultures with too many similarities for them to not be the same story, just told with that particular religion / political agenda / spiritual message affecting the story? I didn't realize that until after getting out of TWI. It could just be a form of religious or political propaganda to scare people into obeying what the leaders of the day told them God wanted them to do or to not do. *shrug* I dunno, though.... just a thought...

Yeppers! And you'd be amazed at how many posts you can get on a page, too!! :D :P

Thanks, y'all! :D Those are things I think would bother me if'n I were a guy, but part of that comes from watching too many movies and the "privacy" women are afforded in bathrooms. I suppose growing up with a good deal of support and a healthy self-esteem helps in a lot of those situations.

Oak said: So where Mike claims that Wierwille said such-and-such, we can go to PFAL and refute him. Which has been done. Wierwille's works often do not say what Mike says that they say, unless you have a gnostic-like secret knowledge that allows you to understand what it really means. And yet, Mike's detractors refer back to "the bible", a collection of writings put together by a committee of the victors in a centuries-long battle of words and political influence. Are you saying it's like using a rubber noodle to fight against a water gun? :P On another thread Bob said: I think that fits here, too. I'm currently reading a book about why people believe weird things and it's pretty interesting how people have the tendency to believe ANYTHING that makes them feel like they have answers to SOMETHING.

I hope it's a successful and prosperous business for the guy.

Isn't it a sign of a pathological liar that they can't open their mouth without telling one lie? He was telling a story, told the truth, but it was only the truth, so he HAD to throw a lie in there somewhere. :)

I've decided to try out the new "ignore" feature on Mike and Alan and it's really cool. I highly recommend it!! Bob, I'm also anxiously awaiting Raf's comparison report. :)

Hey! How'd you get the site to let you post several posts in a row without appending them all into one post??? I know! You're even more special than I thought you were... :P Velly, velly intellesting information there! I hope someone turns him in. Wouldn't it be great to see TWI entangled in a court battle defending themselves from aiding and abetting charges?

Apparently nothing vee pee said was worth a damn. I wonder why the TWIts continue to trust those who have followed him since they aren't even trying or pretending to keep any of his promises..... :huh: Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Yep, it's really true. I used to hear Laurie Wierwille Harmon talk disparagingly about her relatives who weren't "in" TWI. I dunno. Someone else here may have more light to shed on that question. Give them time. It hasn't been that long. Why do you feel that hope is all but lost?

Hopefull, I'm so sorry. :(

Talked to Mama and Daddy last night. They're really looking forward to meeting everyone! Mama says she'll bring S'Mores supplies for Saturday night, including the coat hangers for roasting the marshmallows. I'll be coming in Friday early evening. Whatever shall I bring? Any suggestions, needs, desires??

outofdafog, I was born and raised in a very small southern town never lived anywhere else and even graduated from college there. As soon as I graduated I wanted to move to a "big city" as far away from home as I could get without being more than a day's drive away. :D Orlando is exactly 12 hours away from home by car.... Although "city folk" laugh that I thought Orlando was a big city and having been to Boston recently, I now understand why they laugh at me. :) Anyway, it was my first time away from home. My first time being where nobody knew me and I didn't know anyone, no friends, no contacts, nuttin'. I learned some really tough lessons about people my first year. It was a really, really bad year and sometimes I look back now and can't believe I made it! I remember Mama saying, "You can always come home." but my pride wouldn't let me. I'm stronger, more "aware" and less naive because of it. I also became really grateful for the lessons my parents taught me growing up and see how those things helped me survive and keep out of trouble (well, out of too much trouble). Your daughter is showing you the Proverb about raising a child up "in the way he should go"... She's falling back on what you taught her and your example to her while she was growing up. She'll be making friends quickly and experiencing whole new things in life. It's an exciting time! She'll be growing right before your very eyes in phenomenal ways. You'll get smarter too!! ;) You'll be surprised at how smart you become. LOL!

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=18210

So, ALL your answers to ALL his questions will be over there?

I don't have any scripture, but let me think on that a bit. It seems to me that "works" would be anything someone does to try to make themselves look better in God's eyes (or to look more "Christian" in general): learning the difference between agapao and phileo, circumcision, witnessing door to door every week-end, getting baptized, taking some "Bible" classes, giving 10% or more of your income when you don't really want to..... The "works" that you do from the goodness of your heart with no ulterior motive, no seeking of reward, recognition or even acknowledgement from anyone - especially not from God - those are "genuine" works and those are the things God smiles upon. Those are the things we do without thinking about it and so those things we don't even realize God is taking note of. Something about being an hungered and not being fed, asking for a coat and being told to "go be warmed" - those are things that we should do out of the goodness of our heart and not because someone told us to or because we feel an obligation to, but because we WANT to, whether we get "credit" for it or not. When we have that attitude - that's when we do get credit for it. I do what I'm moved to do and I don't worry about it if I'm not. God knows what I'm capable of and it may not be as much as someone else OR it may be in a different area or way than someone else's specialty. My aunt bemoaned the fact that she didn't want to offer her home to hurricane victims and she felt terrible about that. I reminded her that she was a VERY private person and that it's perfectly fine for her to not want to give in that way. I then reminded her of how she jumped in and took charge of organizing the material needs that their home office employees from N.O. needed and seeing to it that everyone got everything thing they needed. She had done what she was good at. She jumped to it and never gave it another thought. She hadn't even realized how big a task she had done until I pointed it out to her. It helped relieve her guilt somewhat. We do what we can and what we are moved to do.

A very dear friend of mine (RockandRollGoddess) from another board wrote this regarding another discussion we were having and I think it's pertinent here: Fits ESPECIALLY if we are born spiritual beings as well, no? :) We are part of one body and Ecclesiastes talks about our bodies returning to dust, breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping. So......hmmmm......looks like there IS a spiritual side to man, even in the OT and Eccl doesn't mention any conditions on WHO gets that spirit or how. But that's about as far as I've thought about it. <_<

Interesting, men. Thanks! If the body returns to dust, the breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping, then considering that, DOES shed a different light on what Thessalonians says, does it not? At least that's what I *think* I'm reading here. If the spirit goes back to God for safe keeping, it's not exactly in a coma-like state, is it? And if not, then it would be awfully sad to think that our loved ones die, God has their spirit which is still alive and vital, and that the spirit of our loved ones don't think twice about those of us left behind..... Does that make sense? I dunno.....