Belle

Dear RockNhardPlace My recommendations under these conditions is to stay with your spouse and family even if they are still gung ho. Just bide your time. Ultimately, the hypocrisy of twi2 and the bot will do more to convince your spouse and family that it is time to leave than you will... Then when they suggest it, that's the time to concur and make plans to LEAVE ON YOUR TERMS. I married my spouse, not twi. Although I did not realize enough at the time to express my heart in those exact words, looking back on the end of our tenure in twi2, those words characterized my actions completely. During those many months, I was beginning to realize that things were very wrong, but she was still gung ho. It was a confusing, heart wrenching and unstable time. With every new threat that came from headquarters, my heart had been tugging at my mind a little bit more whispering, "this does not fit with the heart of the Word we were taught". I guess that began when we both were ashamed to bring in new people to fellowship or headquarters because of the out-of-control, incongrouos behavior of lcm. But that was only the beginning. lcm gradually amassed more control as the local twigs became less self-governing. His threats grew in number and in volume. Soon she was threataining to leave me because she did not see me getting rid of the "weakness" in my life quickly enough. I was trying, but we all know habits die hard. But I was not an evil person, like I was being treated. She never said it, but I could tell that she was going through a tug of war too. She would threaten me, echoing the threats of lcm. She would shout that she was going to leave me. We got in more and more arguments as twi2 strayed further and further from what had originally attracted both of us to the ministry. But then soon afterward she would be back to her loving self. That told me that she too was being torn. Because of that I tried to ignore the tirades. I tried to still be tender to her. Nothing is worth leaving your spouse over if there is a spark of that old fire left. It may be fanned, stoked and rekindled if you just don't quit. Why did I keep trying? Beacuse I loved her. I promised God I would do so under every condition. Soon conditions got much worse when we were kicked out of the corps. But the circumstances of that were so false that even she, as committed as she was, could see through it. Then the efforts of the local henchmen became more strident and overt. Soon they were actually trying to split us up. They would pit her against me. They even got her to tell on me when I misstepped or when the pressure got so great that I had to blow off steam. I tried to do what they said because I loved God and I loved my wife, but the more I tried to follow their recommendations the less success I had. But I would never let go. There were many tension filled moments where I could have just turned my back and walked away or said that one cutting thing that would douse the remaining sparks. But I would not do it because I loved her more than I loved twi2. Their demands that the ministry was the Word and the Word was the ministry, did not fit with my knowledge that God was the Word and the Word was God. The ministry was acting more like the devil than like God. Therefore, I could not love the "ministry" as much as I loved God or I loved my wife. After we were kicked out it got worse before it got better. There once was a point where I did not care if all my Biblical contributions just died with me... But I wasn't there too long. Once I was out from under all the intimidation, fear motivation and devil spirit influence, I was able to get my head back together and began to fit the Word back together to the point where I could put into words how wrong they were. The first step was realizing that all the "whosoevers" in the Word still applied to me, no matter how loudly lcm had shouted to the contrary. But she was going downhill. She had bought in to lcm's lies and threats so deeply that she was severly condemning herself and expecting the tragedies that lcm and the local henchmen predicted. She would not be consoled. I feared for her health and safety. All I could do was watch over her carefully and be tender with her. I, at the time was putting together in my mind what later became Research Geek's Top Ten list on this forum and I was seeing more and more how wrong lcm had been. But I could not tell her all of it. It was too painful for her to hear. So I did not force it, I only told her stuff when she asked and she made me prove it to her with scripture. I had to tell her more than once on each point and ultimately she was asking questions that sent me back to the Word and I would come back with more answers. But it was not until she got involved with Waydale that her spiritual abilities were rekindled. I can now say that our relationship has fully recovered and gone beyond where it was before. We are falling in love with each other all over again and this time we will never again let anyone or anything come between us or our family. Just love her unconditionally, be patient, and stick with it. The contrast of your love with the lack of it and the evils of twi2 will be unmistakeable. Re: love never faileth RockNHard -- I was exactly where you are until August. I wanted to get out of TWI in 1995 - right after I took the Advanced Class! (how ironic!). I came home and started telling my husband what an awful time I had, how religious TWI had become, how the Corps were like the Gestapo, anything to try to get him to see that this was NOT my "Father's" ministry anymore. He asked me to give it time. He was sure it would get better -- just wait. It took 5 years for him to see it wasn't getting better. So, for 5 years I considered myself a "Stepford" believer. A fake. Not to God and His Word - but to the TWI organization. I smiled, said "bless you!", went to branch meetings, fellowships, Limb functions. The only thing I told my husband was that I would NEVER go away from home and my kids for ANY TWI class or event again. And I managed to stick it out. About 2 years ago I discovered Trancenet - the forerunner to this site. It was not monitored and got pretty nasty at times, but I was able to hook up with old friends, and meet new ones who allowed me to vent my frustration with TWI's doings without much criticism. Then Waydale came along and it was my safe haven. I posted anonymously, told only those I knew and trusted who I was and what my situation was. Their support and love was amazing. Their prayers were appreciated more than they'll ever know. And finally - after 5 years of waiting - it happened.... My hubby finally spoke up about the travesty that TWI had become and tried to help. Of course, he was blind-sided. We were put on probation (see the Waydale Main page for my husband's letter to RFR) until "after the lawsuit". And from way things look - we won't be going back! So my advice is: Hold on. God will honor your prayers and reward your faithfulness to his Word. It won't be long. In the meantime - I will continue to pray for you both and your situation. Hang in there... Hope R.

These are some very, very old WayDale threads that I saved when I was having problems with my marriage. I'm hoping they help those with whom I've been communicating. ;)--> It's about 15 pages in Word, so I'm just going to post a bit at a time. But, in the meanwhile, please, feel free to talk amongst yerselves. :)--> ************* Re: When one spouse wants to stay Rocknhard - there, you see, you did it - took a step. Naturally there's room for many forms and types of advice here. I know there have been other posters in the last 6 months who have tried to deal with this situation as well. Perhaps when you can, or if our faithful fellow cybercitizens can for you, look in the archives. Try using the search function...I bet there's some archivist here who might be able to help. Also I urge you to check out the sites that Sunlight referred to in her post. You may need more than Bible verses, not meaning to cast aspersions here at all, to help you through this. Not being devoted to all that others might think the Bible says, I would not be able to subject myself to my spouse's beliefs and/or "memberships" in something just because they were my spouse, however I know if there are children involved this makes a huge difference. Is your spouse aware of the abuses of power that have been perpetrated upon members of TWI? Does your spouse think all things negative are merely "snares"? Keep posting and keep reading everything you can get your hands on. Godspeed. Re: When one spouse wants to stay Actually, I think I'd go at this from a different angle. Let your spouse decide for himself/herself (sorry, I don't know your gender) how to express his/her spirituality. You act on your own behalf. You say you've been pretending to be a gung-ho believer. Maybe take a step back. Instead of going to fellowship one night, mention to your spouse you'd rather stay home and read a book. Test the waters a little. I know each marriage has its own stress points. Like Ryebred, though, I can't imagine pretending allegience to something just because its something my spouse enjoys. I think I like Orange Cat's suggestion, too. Laugh, if you can. Re: When one spouse wants to stay Nice and reasonable idea and concept, problem is, TWI 2 won't allow it, they don't have the first clue what is reasonable or logical. Not go to twig??? Better be in the hospital or the morgue. That's about the only way you can not go w/o mega grief. TWI won't tolerate any form of non-compliance in any way (no matter how minor), or you will find yourself out and M&A so fast it will make your head swim. Divorce would more than likely quickly follow. I speak from experience. The oppression is so bad and so extreme, the smallest thing ends up cataclysmic and life ruining. Give the leadership the smallest hint of anything and they are on you like a blood hound. That is the reason extreme care and caution (and great wisdom) has to be exercised in this type of situation, or the result will not at all be what is wanted. No way will TWI 2 allow a spouse to exercise the freedom to pursue God in any way they don't prescribe. From an ethical point of view is it proper to pretend to be something you're not? No. But, this isn't a reasonable situation. If you're in a snake pit, the object is to get out alive. My husband woke up several months before I did. He dealt with me in the manner I described above. It was effective. He let me go at my own pace. He didn't try to think for me. He didn't push or shove. Had he handled me any differently, I know beyond any shadow of a doubt we would have gotten divorced. Had that happened, we would not be experiencing the joy, peace, and friendship that we now have (that we never had while in). It would have been a needless and tremendous loss. I am thankful every day we had enough sense to stay together and didn't let TWI or it's doctrines rip us apart. I am thankful he was patient and cared enough for me and our marriage to choose a wise course that didn't force me to choose between him and TWI. Sunlight Thanks for the reminder, Sunlight. It's still difficult for me to comprehend the level of control The Way now exercises in people's lives. However, in your last paragraph where you said that your husband didn't try to think for you, but let you move at your own pace, is exactly what I was trying to say, only you said it so much better. Peace, Laleo Re: When one spouse wants to stay Dear Rock... Please remember our chat from a few nights ago.. please feel free to e mail us by clicking on the name above left. YOU CAN ask us anything and we (meaning spousie and I) will answer any questions we can for you. We recommend that you look at the book "the subtle power of spiritual abuse". It will give you ALOT of insight as to what has gone on here. VERY HELPFUL. Above all... stay sweet with your spousie! It goes along way toward keeping the lines of communications clear and flowing. OTW2K Re: When one spouse wants to stay This is Sunlight’s spouse, she has asked me to post on this thread. I think she may have given me too much credit, we were in a very difficult situation and our leadership had continued to do things to drive us apart. My approach was to revert back to what my non-Christian dad had taught me. That is to treat people right, don’t condemn or accuse them. I think that is when my thinking started to clear up, I loved my wife and didn’t try to force anything down her throat. I was willing to accept her no matter what, because I understood that her heart was right (no matter how much crap she was taught) and it was worth it to me to fight for our marriage. We were both patient with each other and as time went on were finally able to see the great qualities we each had to offer. This may not work for everyone, but it worked for us. Sunlight's husband P.S. From Mrs. Sunlight, Laleo, you're wonderful. Pardon the wayspeak, but that's still the best compliment I can give. love never faileth

Back to the top! by request :D-->

Ooooohhhh.....calling it "feng shui" would have immediately eliminated this rule from many households that I know of, unless they accused the spiritualists of copying the spiritual insight of these elite TWIts. And, Mr. H, the toilet paper must ALWAYS roll down the front. How they he11 you can find the end of it if it rolls down the back against the wall, I have never figured out. And besides, if the lady is the one who uses the tp the most (as well, she SHOULD be), shouldn't SHE be able to make that rule? ;)-->

Although........ We may be starting something here....The WAYGB is known for taking ideas off the GSpot and implementing them. :D-->

Steve!, I *think* Bob Eastwood is speaking tongue in cheek. ;)--> It's not a TWIt mandate, but it WAS the mandate of a particular TWIt. It's spiritually irresponsible to ignore his mandates, too. After all, stubbornness is as of the sin of witchcraft, so you just don't question the authority and rules of the head of the household. Here's why it's proper to always put the lid down on the toilet after finishing your business: - It's not fair if he has to put the seat up to pee, but women don't have to do anything at all - It's distateful to look down into the toilet bowl, especially if it needs to be cleaned - If you get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom you are certain of the seat position so there is no need to turn the lights on (unless you're male, then PLEASE turn on the light. - Life is in the details and this is one of those things that keeps the house spiritually clean I'm not advocating lid lifting responsibly, merely sharing the reasons I was told we had to do this in my house.

Someone ever so kindly noticed that I haven't started a thread in soooo long,so I thought it was about time. :D--> I went to the officia TWIt website. I found it velly velly interesting that here it is, Holy week / EASTER, the anniversary of Christ's death (and resurrection), but there isn't a single thing acknowledging that on the website. Usually they put up more than one topic a month if its something important. All they have is a article about reading the context. I guess Jesus really isnt a big part of way world is he?

I hafta agree with my sistah, heah. They are "pa-con"s. Sky, you musta been in a town of imposters! Who let them D@mn Yankees take over their town?

Oh, do y'all remember Strawberry Coke? It was bright red and turned your tongue red. I would drink those till my tummy hurt! ex, I ate my peanuts boiled. ;)--> wb, thanks for the complement. I just hate those compliments that start with "Bless her heart...." And while I have had Sundrop Colas befoah, I would certainly choose a grape nehi oveh one ah them. ;)-->

WTH is just parrotting what he learned from Robert Kiyosaki of "Richd Dad Poor Dad" fame. He makes some good points, but the guy also highly recommends people get into MLM. WTH is also stuck in the TWIt thinking pattern of everything is black & white instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, he just lumps us all into the "stupid" category of investing and planning for the future. Some of us do pretty darn well; some of us could do better and some are doing the best they can while some just don't "do". Besides all that.... :)--> The point is TWI HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS TELLING ANYONE HOW TO SPEND THEIR MONEY OR PENALIZING THOSE WHO DON'T OBEY THEIR MAN MADE DOCTRINES! I just hope Bobby doesn't get in trouble for anything he wrote in the e-mail. They may start forbidding any kind of correspondence via e-mail to avoid paper trails like this....HEY, maybe that's why hq doesn't use e-mail.

Yeah and nuthin beats a good ole Moon Pie and RC Cola!

I'm just upset they didn't ask about cow tipping or your favorite NASCAR driver. Bob, you would've gotten those though and skewed your score even more. ;)--> Hey ex, what kinda coke are ya gonna to fix? ;)--> Mountain Dew is my favorite. I jest might drop by. :)--> WB, you got that right! There ain't mucha nuthin' southern bout Flawreedah anymore. Cowgirl, I'd comment on the differences, but it really isn't polite to poke fun at those who have to live above the Mason-Dixon Line.

Actually, WTH, Daddy DOES answer the question from his point of view in the very next paragraph: Just defending her Daddy :D--> I happen to think that definition also includes buying things that you don't necessarily consider an "asset".

IMO, if this is the case then they should have realized something was obviously wrong with the training. Another screwed up logic of TWI. Ex70's, I wouldn't use that to defend them; I would say that that's why they are so screwed up! They can't train people to be proper leaders and to treat people with love, kindness, compassion....you know, CHRISTIAN traits.

Oak, isn't that, too, when they started having "Advanced Class Only" meetings? I know we went to a few of them and they were always pseudo-pep rallies to get us to "do more" and to help "the less 'seasoned'" believers step up their "believing" (aka giving, witnessing, obedience). I hated those meetings because you just always came away feeling like absolutely nothing was ever good enough for those TWIts.

Well, I guess we've run this topic in the ground already. Not much to say about this same ole - same ole with TWI. Just proves that nothing really has changed with them despite all the claims to the contrary. Me doth think they protest too much! Give us more money Bring us more people to bring us money Pay for more of our stuff Obey everything WE say, forget God and Jesus, we'll tell you if they're right or not. Pray for US so that we can keep taking your money and living this nice cushy lifestyle.

I want to hear the ones that AREN'T fit to print! :D--> :D--> :D-->

I have innies contact me almost daily in the private topics. Guess what they're asking about? Links to the threads about specific topics we've already discussed and new questions about stuff we've already discussed before! :D--> I really think MDVaden didn't mean what he said or didn't really stop and think logically about it. It actually sounds like TWI rhetoric that's been ingrained into their minds by leadership through consistent reptition.

Where, Oh, Where Has Flat Stanley Gone? Why has he left me here all alone? I searched the world over and thought I found TRUE LOVE He met another and SPLAT he was gone!

Happy Birthday, Hap! :D-->

O-Happy Day! I hope it's a great one!! :D--> Happy Birthday!

Happiest of birthdays to you , George! :D-->

Here's my score: 100% (Dixie). Is General Lee your father? But, that's really no surprise, is it? ;)-->

If you'd be honest and straightforward we wouldn't have to dedicate a whole thread to you, Mr. Eastwood! ;)--> So this whole thing got started because of one couple? Instead of dealing with the one couple on an individual basis, let's make a wide sweeping exaggerated policy and find verses we can spin to prove our point. This is also how the no gift policy got started, too, isn't it? Thanks, Alfakat and Socks! It really is just plain common horse sense, isn't it? I'm sure my Daddy was shaking his head while answering my questions. I think, though, that's when he and my mom started having some hope that I was coming around and starting to pass on the kool-aid. Socks, that is so true in so many areas. I can't tell you how stupid I feel in certain situations that come up these days. I thought I knew a lot or enough about certain subjects thanks to TWI, but since being out I'm realizing how insulated I really was from the real world despite living right smack dab in the middle of it. Major blinders on my eyes!! I'm learning that I can find information, advice and what-not on my own and actually make wise decisions and take care of myself without having to "run it by" someone for permission or validation.

Thanks for your input, y'all! :D--> Oak, I understand what you're saying completely. That's why I hardly ever venture down here....well, that and the fact that I can't keep up. :o--> It seems to be straining gnats and swallowing camels sometimes, but other times I think, "wait! That's what TWI did and that's what they were trying to teach US to do, so why shouldn't we do that to their teachings?" BUT, on the other side, one has to REALLY know what they're talking about and we have quite a few scholars on here, so that's why I posted that paper. When I wanted out and wanted my husband to see TWI for what it was, the doctrinal issues were the main issues that I would have had to use for him, practical stuff wasn't important to him, nor was what happened to other people. He was a master at justifying all the terrible mistreatment he received at the hands of TWI, so doctrinal issues were the only hope I had. Raf, I, too, remember hearing vee pee go on and on about heteros and allos meaning "the same" and "different" during his whole spiel about the four crucified with Christ. All thieves are malefactors but not all malefactors are thieves.