Belle

I found this in the old files of my CD collection and thought I would post it since I've gotten several questions from innies on this. I honestly don't know where it came from but I'm guessing it's a post from WayDale or GSpot. Sorry for not giving credit where credit is due. If it's from you, thank you! It's rather long, but it was VERY helpful to me when I was "in" and trying to decide what to do and feeling darn rotten about wanting to leave. ***************************************** I found this in some of my old files. I think this is part of The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse first chapter or so. Hopefully you can print this out at work and read it at lunch. Stash it away for future pondering and reference or throw it away, having been able to read it. :)--> I hope it helps soothe your soul today: Introduction Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Sometimes the ministers who are supposed to help God's people are the ones doing the harm. The place of fellowship and worship has sometimes become the place of abuse and destruction. Some of these abusive ministers have driven God's people to depression, divorce, disease, destruction, and even death. John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. God warns us of these false prophets and false ministers. They devour God's flock instead of feeding the flock. 2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. These abusive systems continue to get worse and worse. The longer a Christian is in an abusive system the worse off he is. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. We are not to be disciples of ministries, churches, or organizations. But instead we are to be disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ and God the Father. 1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. It is my goal to expose abusive practices that are practiced in the name of Christianity and the name of God. I want to give you a way of measuring an organization according to the Word of God to see if it is abusive or not. If you have a suspicion that the group you are in is abusive, then put them to the test. See if they are doing what would qualify as abusive or not. It is not my goal to trash churches or ministries. I only want to see God's people get deliverance from abuse. You can either use the Word of God to help people or to hurt people. In an abusive system the Word of God is used to hurt people. If the Word of God is spoken in love, it helps people, but if it is spoken with other motives then it can be used to abuse and hurt people. In the book of Job the miserable comforters used the Word of God to attack Job and increase his misery. They should have used the Word to help Job. Job 16:4 I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you. Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Breakthrough or Breakdown Unfortunately some of the Ministers and Ministries that people go to for God's help are not providing help at all - - in fact some of these Ministries actually drive people deeper into their problems instead of helping them. One of the signs of spiritual abuse is that the abused person will feel like he or she is both on the verge of a breakthrough and on the verge of a breakdown. This is an excerpt from a book that I recommend highly. The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse 1991 David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen Jeri sat in the office of a Christian counselor, explaining that she felt desperate, and felt like she was going crazy. "Either that," she said dryly, "or I'm on the verge of a major breakthrough in my spiritual growth." "Those are two big opposites," the counselor noted. "How did you come to that conclusion?" "Well," she began, choking up, "I went to my pastor a few months ago because I was feeling depressed a lot. He pegged the root problem right away, but I can't seem to do anything about it." "Root problem…" the counselor repeated. "What was that?" Jeri looked down at her shoe tops. "I guess I would have to say the problem is, well, me. My pastor says I'm in rebellion against God." Jeri's pastor was either incompetent or an outright liar or both. Instead of offering compassion, love and spiritual tenderness this pastor came up with a "root problem." Quite often those who are so very quick to accuse others of having a "root problem" have an even larger problem themselves. Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Jesus Christ called the spiritual abusers hypocrites, because they were quick to jump on the faults of others and refused to acknowledge their own faults which were even worse. The spiritual abusers will hold their followers to a standard that they themselves do not follow, and they will demand that people try to earn what God has already freely given them. False Accusations Jeri's Pastor gave her some Scriptures to memorize and she was told to get her mind off of herself and onto others. When the pastors instructions did not help Jeri then she became a problem. She exposed the pastor's incompetence and the pastor cannot let his people see that he doesn't really know how to solve the problem, so he has to accuse her of having some "root problem." John 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus Christ was accused of having a devil - - those doing the accusing were spiritually incompetent and they were liars. Accusing people of being possessed of devil spirits is one of the false accusers' favorite tools. I have met numerous people who were falsely accused of being homosexual, spiritualists, or some other evil thing. The one common thing that these people had in common was that they disagreed with an abusive spiritual leader. They therefore became a problem and the way a spiritual abuser deals with problem people is to falsely accuse them. Often the more outrageous the accusation the more effective it is. These false accusations work in several ways - - they silence the person accused, they intimidate those who stay, and they keep those who stay from communicating with those who leave. In a spiritual abuse system discerning of spirits turns into the counterfeit - - "Genuine Spiritual Suspicion." That way you don't even need revelation from God to accuse people of being possessed. If it looks like a duck it must be a duck. I call this "five senses discerning of spirits." It takes the spirit of God out of the equation and allows the spiritual abuser to let his devil spirit fantasies run wild. He can dream up all sorts up new types of devil spirits. The problem here is that when someone focus' on devil spirits they can start to see them everywhere. It is not good to get obsessed with devil spirits. 2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. We need to be aware of Satan but we can't be obsessed with evil spirits to the point that we see spirits where they don't even exist. Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? It is not the knowledge of how bad the Devil is that leads people to God. It is the Goodness of God. Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. If you are looking for something bad in someone you will be able to find it. If you are looking for something good in someone you can find that too. The spiritual abuser looks for the evil. He may do it under the guise of some good reason like "keeping the household clean." God's people are NOT trash that needs to be removed from the household of God. The only way that you can have a completely clean household is to get rid of ALL of the people, because we are ALL imperfect. If you look hard enough for devil spirits in people then you will see them even when they are not there, because you will imagine them and you will convince yourself that they are there even when they are not. One of the great weapons that a spiritual abuser has in his arsenal is the accusation. Hitler proved that if you tell a lie often enough then people will believe it. Spiritual abusers are very adept at accusing others. They quite often do this screaming at the top of their lungs. This makes the lies and accusations more formidable. When I was little my family attended a Lutheran Church. My father's ancestors came from the part of Germany that Martin Luther was from. As a result my family were Lutherans. One Sunday my mother asked the Pastor a question how could innocent little babies be born in sin. This is a logical question, but the problem is it exposed the pastor's ignorance and inability to explain so out came the accusation: "That's just the Devil in you making you ask that question." Well we did not attend that church after that because my parents had the sense to go somewhere else when they were being abused. Martin Luther started the Reformation by rebelling against the abusive and corrupt Roman Catholic Church, but years later the Lutheran Church no longer represented the beliefs and principles that Martin Luther stood for. When an organization was started by a great man of God there is no guarantee that this organization will continue to follow his teachings after he is dead. You can't stay and you can't leave The spiritual abuser will quite often make it both hard to stay and hard to leave. This is a really cruel manipulation. The poor Christian is told that other groups are devilish, and counterfeit. They are told that if they leave something terrible will happen to them, or that God will be very displeased with them and that He won't answer their prayers. Yet if they try to stay then they will be told that they have to live up to some impossible standard to earn God's love and praise. This is called performance based Christianity. This is the opposite of grace based Christianity, because the believer has to earn what God has already freely given him. The problem here is that nobody can live up to the standard - - not even the spiritual abuser himself lives up to the standard that he is promoting. Jesus Christ was the only man that ever walked perfectly - - the rest of us can only make it by God's grace. Then when people don't measure up to the standard they are kicked out, excommunicated, marked and avoided, or some other form of removal from the group that they are now desperately trying to stay in. This is where fear motivation, control and demanding of obedience are manifested. There is a great record in the John Chapter 9 - - this is the record of the man that was born blind. One of the miracles that proved that Jesus Christ was the Son of God was the healing of a man born blind. This had never been done before. The Pharisees were spiritual abusers who were not interested in the blind man's deliverance. They were instead interested in accusing and kicking out those who didn't follow their religious standards. John 9:26 Then said they [the Pharisees] to him [the man born blind] again, What did he [Jesus Christ] to thee? how opened he thine eyes? 9:27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples? 9:28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples. 9:29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. 9:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. Here the Pharisees kicked out the man because he was healed on the wrong day and he had the courage to stand up to them and question them and because he was not intimidated by them. John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Jesus Christ did not kick out his followers. He kicked out devil spirits, and he backed down Scribes and Pharisees, but he didn't turn on his own followers. But spiritual abusers will often accuse people of having devil spirits, but instead of casting out the spirits they cast out the people. The reason is that the people don't have spirits to cast out because the accusation was false to begin with. There are occasional situations where someone may have to be asked not to attend a church or fellowship. But if removing people from the fellowship is the norm then there is something wrong. In an abusive system the follower is taught that the ONLY truth and protection come from staying in the group. This puts a deep fear of leaving into the follower. The follower will do anything to keep from getting kicked out, and the follower would not even dream of leaving even though the treatment he receives in the group continues to get worse. Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. 35:9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there: I have seen these verses used to teach that "the way of holiness" is staying in the group and that those that leave the group will end up being devoured by the lions and other ravenous beasts. This again builds fear and negative believing so that people don't have the courage to leave or that when they are out they are convinced that something terrible will happen to them. When people get in that state of mind they will quite often get what they fear. Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. Legalism - "How To" versus "Have To" Another form of spiritual abuse is legalism. Are you being taught how to do God's Word or are you being taught that you have to do God's Word. The first is deliverance the second is bondage. Jesus Christ taught his followers how to receive the great things of God's Word but the Pharisees required people to do what they said the law was. John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? The Old Testament law said that if a man committed adultery with a married woman then he and the woman should be put to death. It is interesting to note that the Pharisees did not say that the woman was married and they did not bring a man to be stoned either. Here the Pharisees were not interested in the truth of the law they were interested in making Jesus Christ look bad, and they were willing to kill the woman to achieve their goal. The Pharisees were twisting the Old Testament law and making and trying to misapply it to this situation. 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. Jesus Christ thought about this situation and he considered the scriptures that applied to the woman. The heart of Jesus Christ and God his Father was love and forgiveness not legalism. 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. How did they know she was an adulteress, maybe she was found pregnant without a husband. Where was the man that committed adultery with her? If she was caught in the act or pregnant then there must have been a man involved. Maybe this woman was servicing the Pharisees' sexual desires. I don't know, but it is quite common that spiritual abusers are also sexual abusers of their followers. In 1 Samuel chapter 2 it is recorded that those who were supposed to be priests would lay with women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle. They used the place of worship as a place to find women to have adultery with. They were sexual and spiritual abusers. 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Jumping Through Hoops Another form of spiritual abuse is where the leader requires his followers to "jump through hoops" to earn his and God's approval. This is performance based Christianity. This is nothing more than causing Christians to earn what God has freely given them. Another problem here is that not only does the poor Christian have to jump through hoops; but the hoops keep moving. Just when the poor Christian is getting used to jumping through hoops all of a sudden the hoops move. The standard keeps changing. There is "new light" or "new revelation," I have also heard it taught as the new "present truth," as if truth changes all the time. Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; God never desired for his children to be lead about by abusive leaders who keep setting up performance standards that the believers must adhere to in order to earn God's approval. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Salvation is so big that there is nothing that we can do to earn it. It HAD to be given to us. There are no good works we can do to earn it. There are no bad works we can do to lose it. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse 1991 David Johnson & Jeff VanVonderen "Many will easily recall the story of "The Wizard of Oz." Curiously, we can gain some insights about spiritual authority from this popular tale. Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion go to the Wizard because they believe he has the power to give them what they need. Dorothy needs to go home; the Scarecrow needs a brain; the Tin Man needs a heart; and the Lion needs courage. The Wizard sends them out on a quest to get the broomstick of the Wicked Witch of the West. If they bring back the broomstick, he will give them what they need. They accomplish their mission by melting the witch and getting the broomstick, then return to the Wizard's place to ask him to deliver on his promise. But, in fact, he is not expecting their return, and is quite put out at being held accountable to keep his promise. Our heroes enter the huge chamber where the Wizard of Oz conducts his business. They are met face to face by the Wizard himself, a big, scary head--not a real person, just a serious face, surrounded by billowing smoke and fire, making a lot of noise. With a thunderous roar, the Wizard demands to know how these four dare to challenge him. Here is the point: it's at this moment that Dorothy's dog runs over to a small room and pulls back a curtain, and what is revealed to us is a simple, flesh-and-blood man who has been hiding behind a mask of power. He operates behind a curtain pulling levers, making smoke, fire, and noise. The result looks impressive but is only a facade. Even when he roars "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" The "Wizard" is in fact a power abuser. He controls a whole city with a facade that postures power and punishes people for noticing. In a kingdom where the problem was that the Wizard couldn't deliver, Dorothy and her crew became the problem for noticing there was a problem. It is sad to think how often religious power-brokers control their spiritual kingdoms with power facades. They rain Bible verses on people about authority, submission, judgement, prosperity, or the end times. They penalize people for noticing the "the man behind the curtain" is just human, with no authenticity or authority at all. As a maddening, last lesson from the story, after all is said and done the Wizard tells them, "You already have what you needed all along." They had risked life and limb for what they already had. In too many Christian families and churches, Christians are told to jump through spiritual-performance hoops to earn God's approval--something they already have for free because of Jesus' death on the cross." Control Another way that a group can be abusive is control. This will destroy the individual's courage to ask questions or dare to believe something different from what is taught in the spiritually abusive system. I have fellowshipped with five different groups in my lifetime. One of them started out wonderful, but after time changed into an abusive system. This group originally encouraged its followers not to just take the teacher's word for something but to ask questions. So I asked what chapter and verse gave them the right to look into my personal finances when they were coercing me into selling my house. This question made them very mad. I had the courage to challenge their abusive actions - - I therefore became the problem. They had to either intimidate and control me or kick me out, or both. They gave me three verses to back up their actions. The first one was because the reverend said so. Well I looked all through my Bible and there is no verse with that reverend's name on it. The second was Acts 5 - - this was misapplied because that verse talked about people who lied about their giving to the church. I had been honest when I told them how much I made and how much that I gave - - in fact I had already given them more information than they had a right to know. The third was a verse that was misquoted - - they had left out a word. I finally came to realize that they were incompetent and liars. Therefore I no longer had any desire to fellowship with them. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Galations 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Conclusion How do you identify a spiritual abusive system? First and foremost you will know anything, anybody and any group by their fruits. Is the fruit joy or fear? Is the fruit deliverance or destruction? Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. The spiritually abusive system will steal, kill, and destroy. But true Christianity will bring forth life more abundantly. There are several questions that you can ask to determine if a system is abusive or not. If you get the wrong answers to these questions then you may have experienced spiritual abuse. 1 What is the fruit? 2 Are you allowed to disagree? 3 Can you talk to those who have left? 4 Is the system grace based or legalism based? 5 Are you allowed to ask Questions? 6 Is the standard always changing? 7 Are a lot of people being ostracized? 8 Are you required to "jump through hoops" to earn God's approval? 9 Are people being falsely accused? 10 Do you have to answer to leadership on small personal matters? 11 Are other groups outside the system always portrayed as evil and wrong? 12 Does the system teach that only they have the real truth? 13 Is there more confronting than comforting? 14 Are you required to give money rather than asked to give money? 15 Are you required to win new recruits to the group? So what do you do if you get the wrong answers to these questions? Well you should consider leaving. Unfortunately many victims of spiritual abuse will give up on Christianity. Some people will find a church that will treat them nice and they will go there even though they disagree with the doctrine. But it is available to find groups that love people and also teach the Word of God rightly divided. God will raise up new ministers to replace the abusive ministers; that is a promise from the Word of God. Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Introduction God promises to heal the brokenhearted. One of the ways someone can get their heart broken is to be spiritually abused. But healing is available. It is available to get your relationship back with God Almighty, Jesus Christ, and have fellowship with your fellow Christian believers. I intend to show you some simple truths by which people can recover the sweetness and fellowship that was stolen from them by spiritual abusers. Psalm 147:3 He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds. Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. God is a god of recovery, and it is His will that abuse victims recover from abuse. There is a wonderful Christian hymn "He’s The Healer Of Broken Hearts" that expresses the healing intentions of God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son of God. HE’S THE HEALER OF BROKEN HEARTS He’s the healer of broken hearts; He’ll mend your shattered dreams; He’ll pick up the threads of your broken hearts, And mend them together again. To your soul he’ll bring peace and joy; Your friend indeed he’ll be. He’s the healer of broken hearts, This Jesus of blue Galilee. Abuse is defined as: to maltreat, to misuse, to use with bad motives or to wrong purposes, to deceive, to pervert the meaning of, to misapply, improper treatment, application to a wrong purpose, a corrupt practice or custom. Many Christians have been either deliberately or unintentionally abused. Some abuse is accidental and no one is really hurt but some abuse is massive to the point that lives are in ruin. But God can heal the brokenhearted and abused. It’s Not Your Fault One of the great keys to healing from spiritual abuse is to realize that it wasn’t your fault. God did not punish you for your faults and shortcomings. Quite often when people are physically, mentally, sexually abused they will be overwhelmed with the guilt that the abuse was somehow their fault. For instance a rape victim may feel that they are to blamed for the rape along with the attacker. The victim often thinks that they did something to lead on the attacker or to deserve the abuse. You CANNOT entertain these thoughts if you want deliverance. If you were abused then someone else took advantage of you. The abuser is in the wrong not the victim. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. We cannot condemn ourselves if we want deliverance. We cannot wallow in guilt. We have a personal adversary who wants to condemn us and put us in guilt. Satan, the devil, is our adversary. He wants to hinder us, attack us, and abuse us whenever he gets the chance. Abuse is the devil’s fault not the victim’s. Galations 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? Galations 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: John 10:10a The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: Our adversary has a full time job which is: stealing, killing, and destroying. He is the one responsible for the spiritual abuse that occurs in Christian’s lives. Once the victim realizes that the abuse is not from God and the abuse is not the victim’s fault, but that the abuse is the adversary’s fault, then the victim has taken the first step towards healing, deliverance and recovery. Stop the abusive influences I like to call this key "Stop the mouth of the abuser" or "Separating yourself from the abuse" This means that you have to get to the point that what the abuser says no longer has an influence on you. So if the abuser’s words still have an influence on you then you must get away from the abuse. In physical abuse situations the victims will be removed to a "safe house" for a while. You may have to get rid of books, tapes, and magazines that are from the abusive organization. You must remove yourself from the abusive influence for a while. This may take days or years depending on how bad you were abused. Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. The abuser’s mouth must be stopped. However quite often we can’t actually get the spiritual abuser to shut up, but we can remove ourselves from the abuser so that we no longer hear and are influenced by the abuser. Once the victim has been separated from the abuser then the healing process can begin. When the victim is separated from the abuser then the process of stopping the mouth of the abuser has begun for that victim. The process is complete when the abuser has no influence over the victim at all. Then for the victim the abuser’s mouth has been stopped, even though the abuser may still be talking. Eventually when you are healed the words of the abuser will no longer hurt you. 2 Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Whether the abuser is a truly evil false prophet or a good man making bad mistakes. You must cut off the influence of the abuser. James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: We submit to God and we submit to other believers, but we do not submit to spiritual abusers. We resist the abusers by submitting to God. Sonship versus discipleship Acts 21:16 There went with us also certain of the disciples of Caesarea, and brought with them one Mnason of Cyprus, an old disciple, with whom we should lodge. This verse of Scripture has a unique significance. It is the last occurrence of the word disciple in the Bible. From Romans through Revelation the word disciple does not occur. God refers to the Christian with several terms such as sons, soldiers, ambassadors, etc. but not disciples. 1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. The Apostle Paul when referring to himself said that he was a servant and an apostle. He could have opened the book of Romans with "Paul a disciple of Jesus Christ," but he didn’t. Paul emphasized his ministry of an apostle and his service. Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Quite often well meaning ministers and ministries wanting to teach and practice Christianity will teach their followers about discipleship. But the problem is the more they focus on discipleship the more they open the door for abuse. When we focus on discipleship, we try to improve our faults and short comings. But when we focus on sonship then we see that we can not improve on what God has done for us in Christ. As a disciple we work to measure up to the standard of the Word. As a son of God we already measure up to the standard of the Word. Our flesh is so bad that there is no good work that we can do to make it worthy of eternal life. Our spirit is so perfect that there is nothing that we can do that is bad enough to corrupt it. When we focus on being a disciple then we focus on ourselves. But when we focus on sonship then we focus on what God has done for us in Christ. Now I am not saying that there is no place for discipleship in the New Testament. Surely there are many good things that can come from a Christian disciplining himself to better serve the Word of God to others. But if the main emphasis is on the discipleship and not on the sonship then the stage is set for abuse to creep in. Then a leader can say to a disciple "You only studied the Bible for half an hour today, you need to do better than that if you want to live sanctified." The poor abused Christian often accepts this even though there is no scripture that commands us that we have to read a certain amount of Bible verses each day. The poor Christian is coerced into doing something to earn what God has already freely given him. The really sad part is that before the Christian enjoyed reading his Bible but now he does it out of either fear or obligation. Abusive discipleship relationships can destroy the joy and love in a Christian’s heart. We need to motivate people from the inside with love, not with discipleship forced upon them from the outside. Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. When we get too much into discipleship then we are thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to think. But God has given each one of us the same measure of faith when we get born again of God’s spirit. We all have the same measure. Nobody can get any more for being a good disciple, and you won’t get any less for being a bad disciple. It is SONSHIP! We got it by grace. Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Galations 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? An over-emphasis on discipleship is like the foolishness of beginning in the spirit and then trying to please God by perfecting the flesh. Know who you are in Christ To gain deliverance we must know who we are in Christ. We must also forget what the abuser said about us. We reach forward for deliverance and forget the things of abuse that are behind us. Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, The word "forgetting" in this verse is not the word for forgetting and never remembering again. It means that we disregard, pay no attention to, ignore, overlook, and put it out of our minds for a while and think on something else. We don’t dwell on the abuse and allow it to fester into bitterness and revenge. Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Jesus Christ suffered and died for us so that we could live for God. We don’t have to suffer, die or be abused for God. Our job is to be a living sacrifice. When we renew our minds to the Word of God then we can get over spiritual abuse. Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Romans 4:25 Who [Jesus Christ] was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. We must know who we are in Christ and not let any spiritual abuser talk us out of our righteousness, sanctification, redemption, and justification. These cannot be earned they are already ours. We are ambassadors for Christ and we can operate the ministry of reconciliation. As Jesus Christ is now so are we in this world. Therefore we must know who we are in Christ to overcome spiritual abuse. Fellowship with believers One of the great keys to deliverance from spiritual abuse is fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ. God did not design for us to go through life isolated and controlled. Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety. Proverbs 24:6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety. God does not desire us to be off by ourselves without the council, advice, love, and support of our fellow believers trying vainly to figure things out. God will always make available for us to fellowship with other believers. God will never leave us alone. It is up to us to utilize this great resource available to us. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. God desires that we have fellowship with other believers and when we fellowship then our joy can be full. Remember that God is light, He is NEVER the source of any darkness. So if we ever get abused in any Christian fellowship or ministry we must remember that the abuse is not from God. The way to deliverance is to fellowship with loving Christians, and leave behind the spiritual abusers. God’s Love The Love of God is very healing. It will energize your believing. It will cast out your fear. It will motivate you to be the Christian that you really want to be. It will heal the wounds of Spiritual abuse. That is why fellowship is important because we must put ourselves in a place to be around those who live and manifest the love of God. Galations 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh [is energized by] by love. 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. God’s love energizes our believing. God’s love casts out our fear. This topic is closely tied with the fellowship topic because you really see God’s love manifested in groups of fellowshipping believers. God commands us to love our brother also. The best way to do that is to have some sort of fellowship with him. Then when we are walking in the love of God we can help others who need healing from spiritual abuse by fellowshipping with them and showing them the love of God. Forgiveness Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. When Job finally realized that the miserable comforters/spiritual abusers were worse off than he was he prayed for them. Job quit looking at himself and he began to look at the needs of others, then he gained deliverance. He got rid of his fear and regained his trust and believing in God. Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. When we get to the place that we can forgive the spiritual abusers and get rid of the bitterness and hatred towards them then we also can recover what was stolen from us. Now by forgiving I don’t mean that you have to get to be good friends with the abusers and put yourself right back into an abusive situation. What I mean is that you can get rid of the venomous and vicious hatred for those who are spiritual abusers. You can move on and regain the sweetness in your fellowship with God and His Son Jesus Christ and your fellow believers. If someone is continuing to spiritually abuse Christians then there is no way that you should fellowship with or support them in any way. But you don’t have to carry a vendetta and try to get even. God keeps the score and God will carry through justice. Conclusion Spiritual abuse is NOT from God. It is God’s desire that you be healed. We must go to the Word of God and see who we are in Christ. Then we can cut off the abusive influences and stop dwelling on the abuse that was heaped upon us, and instead reach forward to God’s deliverance. We must continue to focus on our sonship and what God has done for us through Jesus Christ. We must avoid over emphasizing discipleship, and thereby focus on what we do instead of what God has done. We can’t earn what God has already freely given us, and we must never compel others to try to earn what they already have. We must seek out the fellowship of loving Christians and never let ourselves be too far removed from their healing presence. We must learn to forgive the spiritual abusers. We can then let go of bitterness and hatred. In John 9 Jesus Christ healed a man that was born blind. This man was then excommunicated and marked and avoided by the Pharisees because of their hatred for Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ went and found the man who ha

Is y'all in there? I really hate seeing that one spelled incorrectly!

Beetle Juice Geena Davis The Fly

Dolly Parton Best Little Whorehouse in Texas Burt Reynolds

Y'all are amazing! ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!! This is why I come here. I remember so well getting sage advice from y'all and sometimes hearing things that are hard to hear and having to think about things and points of view that I would have preferred to remain ignorant about. ;)--> I could never even begin to express my thanks and tell each one of you how much you helped me hold onto my sanity while I was going through sheer he11 the past five years. I owe y'all so much! I wished that my ex and I had the same connection that Hope & John did, but they obviously have the ability to share with each other on a much deeper level than my ex and I did. I think that's the key there. I read on here many times that if I couldn't share my heart, feelings, frustrations, anger, fear... with my ex then what kind of marriage did we really have? Something I didn't want to face, but once I did it was very freeing and relieved so much pressure. I don't know what my friend needs to hear. I have no doubt that she's hearing it from y'all, though. :)--> I have shared what I read yesterday with her and she said to thank you all for your prayers. It's great to hear how she isn't as trapped as she might think and thank you for sharing your stories in that aspect. (Thanks, Bob, for helping "the other side" ;)--> That's very kind of you.) ((((((((RASCAL)))))))) Once again, you share your heart with us and it's so healing to read. You are truly a remarkable woman, but I knew that the first time I talked to you in the chat room eons ago. :D--> Thank you so much!

CONGRATULATIONS!!! I remember those days way tooo well! Once I was out of school I was recruited to help raise funds for my brother's school awards. :D--> Perhaps Paw would let you peddle GSpot aprons or something like that? I'd buy one....or two....or three.... :)-->

Born Again to Manipulate

I know it's a shrewdness of apes. Makes me think of some other apes I know, but they aren't in CES, it's the other three lettered cult.

I'm saving money and time off for a family reunion in July. I haven't been since getting married in TWI and can hardly wait to see my Fave-Oh-Rite cousins!! I am, however, up for any GSpot bash in Florida, GA, SC, AL or MS. :D--> I am also willing to host said bash and offer room for crashing bashers.

Let me also add that I think this arguing over semantics and the Biblical meanings of these words is way overrated. I'm not sure I believe that the ancient Greek language was as specific as vee pee led us to believe. There are too many examples of Greek words that are synonyms for each other and interchangeable in the text.

TWI would argue over semantics trying to enforce their black & white version of life. I just don’t see it that way. God directs our paths and if God works in someone’s heart to have them leave a dangerous or bad situation, then who are we to judge them and throw Bible verses at them? Only God knows what is truly going on in the situation. Each situation is different and unique to the impact it has on an individual. How easy is it to be your best for God if you’re in a terribly oppressive situation and your spouse, though claiming to be following God’s will, obviously isn’t? How easy is it to believe God and be a good witness for him if you have bruises all over (mentally, emotionally and/or physically)? Think God wants his kids living like that? I don’t. How do these verses fit in with that black & white legalistic view of life? Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. v.30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. **************** Tts 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain **************** Jesus appears to be teaching that life is not all black & white and that legalism is wrong – but I could be wrong Mat 12:1-8 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple. But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. **************** 1Cr 10:23,24, 29 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's [wealth]. Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience?

Thanks, y'all! More viewpoints, suggestions and prayers are definitely what she needs. I may tell her about this thread and see if she'll come on here. She's too scared to, but maybe if she goes to the library..... She can't come to my house because we're not supposed to be talking and she won't use her home computer. Steve, it's good to be reminded of Hope & John's story. That's what I clung to for the 5 years I fought for my marriage. Hopefully this one will end up like theirs and not like mine. :)--> JT, I think that's a great idea! Self-help in the practical sense. If nothing else, it gives her another skill, something to be proud of and time to think about something other than her marriage and TWI. dmiller, you have one of the kindest hearts of anyone I know. Thank you! And I will tell her you said so. ;)-->

MDVaden, I hope business is really booming and that's why you're not here.

I've been perusing the Greasespot Gems thread lately and this quote from SongRemainsTheSame seems very apropo to this thread. Thank you, Song! :D-->

The Elephant Man Anne Bancroft The Prisoner of 2nd Avenue

I was talking with an innie friend of mine this week-end on the phone and she was telling me about how she ran into an old school buddy of hers who told her that she was not the same person they went to college with. The buddy told her that she seemed more self-conscious, sad, paranoid and without self-esteem. All this from someone who was once a very dear friend. The innie said that she knew she wasn't happy with things the way they are but never realized how much her personality had changed. She lamented the fact that she is expected to be a stay at home mom and devote 100% of her time and focus to her husband and children. There's no time allowed between family and TWIt stuff for "Me" time. I don't know if it's expected or if it happens as a by product of the culture and teachings of TWI, but I realized that had happened in my life as well. I had hobbies and friends before getting married in TWI. I had long phone calls with my girlfriends and my mom. I could go out with "the girls" and I could spend time on things I wanted to do. I had to quit all that once I got married. I was also not allowed to go anywhere by myself without putting up a fight. If I did want to go out with "the girls" they had to be TWIts, no more going out with unbeliever friends. --> Even then it was very rare to do anything without my ex shadowing me or not wanting me to go have fun without him. This friend would like to get out of TWI, but she wants to keep her marriage in tact. I hope it works out for her that way, but it looks like it's an uphill battle at this point. One primary thing that's making it harder for her to decide what to do is the fact that she's a SAHM and hasn't worked in a few years because that's what's been required by TWI. The family doesn't have much money because of living on one income (and giving a huge portion of that to TWI). Listening to her hurdles, it sounds like she's got it harder than I did since I at least have a pretty darn good job and pretty much always made more than my ex. Does anyone agree with me? Have advice I can share with my friend? I know nothing about kids, divorces with kids and the best way for a SAHM to get back into the workplace.

This thread reminds me of the Bloom County cartoon where Steve is trying to quit smoking and he is locked up with Opus. Opus crawls into the toilet and calls 911. Tells them he's being held hostage and that the Tidy Bowl is irritating his buttocks. Steve grabs Opus by the neck and holds him up for the gang to see and has a sign or yells, "A carton of Camels by noon or penguin pate!" I can't find it on the web, but I have it at home and will try to scan it tomorrow. It's hilarious!

These bright posters have pretty much summed it up for me. I was reading your initial post and thinking, "what the heck does this have to do with patriotism?" So the guy had a nice ride. I hope he enjoyed it. He has no room to complain, imo. Some other company just played the game better and now he might have to pick up his toys and go home. We're supposed to feel sorry for him? --> We're supposed to consider him patriotic? --> How is he giving up his entire lifestyle? He will either get laid off or not. It's not like he is the one making the decision if he's laid off. If the company can compete and come back with better quality and better prices then they wouldn't lose the business. Sounds like you and your friend are saying that ripping the government off by selling them inferior products at expensive prices is patriotic. --> Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but *shrug* he isn't "agreeing to give the work to another company", he lost the bid and the government contract and now he's bitter about it.

Out There, here's a link to information on the trial excultworld Lawsuit Section If you don't know about that one, then you probably don't know about the others....Pat's done a bang up job of documenting facts, posting copies of depositions and newspaper articles. There's a wealth of information there about the ugly legal stuff TWIts aren't told about. The lawyers are probably laughing all the way to the bank with TWIt abundant sharing.

LOL! I can't say I blame you, nandon. I was in my late 20's when I went to Indiana for the AC and had to shower with other women for the first time in my life. It was uncomfortable for me then. ESPECIALLY when I had to shave my legs! I think I only shaved them twice the whole two weeks!

MDVaden, since you did try to change the subject and focus of the discussion, I'm ever so curious to hear what you think of my reply to your post.

I think what we're seeing here is a classic TWI technique of changing the subject so as to avoid answering any questions or continuing any discussions that may cause discomfort. Sartori, correct me if I'm wrong. ;)--> OR, it could be that there is no standard TWI rhetoric with which to reply. Maybe we'll hear a more direct comment once MDVaden has been to fellowship and gotten the proper response to post on here....IF he is allowed to continue posting on here. I've noticed that our Family Tables friend is no longer posting. :(-->

So the original sin of mankind is no longer lesbianism? The WAP class is no longer being taught? R&E is no longer being sold? It's no longer dangerous to leave TWI? The devil isn't going to get you and you won't spiritually die? He's not still quoted in teachings and in the way mag? He was as little as 8 months ago His wife, who knew about, condoned and did nothing to stop his abuses, doesn't teach or speak publicly anymore? She's no longer teaching eqtiquette classes at the AC? You've learned the TWI rhetoric very well, MDVaden. They are spin-masters for sure. If they ever get M&A they could go into politics very successfully, I imagine. I hope you'll be able to see through the rhetoric some day. I'm glad you're here. Thanks for posting.

Nope. Met in TWI and divorced when I decided to leave TWI. Married just shy of eight years.

excathedra - ROFLMAO! :D--> :D--> :D--> You're too much! Ala, I'm so sorry for you and your hubby. It sounds so terrible. No wonder most of us were seriously depressed. :(--> Did they hold y'all accountable for how much abs came in, how many people went WOW/WD, WC and/or AC, AC Specials, etc. How many STS / mag subscriptions were in your area? Outreach?