Rocky

7 hours ago, OldSkool said:

The offshoots know dang good and well that victor Paul wierwille had issues as long as train smoke. They knowingly suppress this information on a false pretense of requiring forgiveness from victims when nobody has stepped up to ask forgiveness and make amends. They all do it. Cff, stfi, tltf, etc. It's just as bad as doing the deed because truth is suppressed in favor of an idolatrous lie.

They may or may not require victims to forgive. I don't have any experience with any of them to be able to say one way or another. 

However, I believe they do knowingly suppress that particular information... and do so for the purpose of their particular offshoot not having to deal with the actual problem. That would require thoughtfulness, mindfulness, introspection and difficult discussions.

Refusing to do so, IMO, makes each group enablers of emotional dysfunction. I reflect back to what our good friend Skyrider wrote about GSC being to first (and perhaps the only) place where the truth has been declared. Doing so allows individuals to have a face off with the evil which has harmed them emotionally and perhaps in other ways.

Some readers here  might recall that I have mentioned the recent movie produced by Frances McDormand and directed by Sarah Polley, Women Talking.

AARP reported months ago Amazon would make the movie available for Prime members to view the movie for no additional cost. However, I put it on my watchlist at the time and it was, for IMO too long, available to watch with a trial free membership to some other channel/network by way of Amazon Prime.

Long story short, when I looked last night, that qualifier had been dropped and NOW it IS available for no extra charge (or other contingency) for Prime members to watch.

So, I watched it. 

I LOVED IT. It's not an action movie. But it does poignantly and artistically portray a necessary story about democratic (not partisan) group decision making. 

I love how the movie explores the internal workings of minds by way of words and body language (non-verbal communication).

Of course, that's a dimension lacking with online forums. We can't look into each other's eyes, or adequately read the tone of each others' voices.

Anyway, one of the main themes of the women's deliberations was forgiveness.

You might love the movie too.   

2 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   A great friend of mine, now deceased, was once a staunch catholic, an altar boy too, but because of actions of priests he experienced through the years, was chilled away.    And of course we know those who've been hurt in TWI.   Some leave the faith, and some stick with it.    Who is right?    Who knows?      Jesus have mercy on our souls.

Great comment. Yet, is it OUR place to determine who is right? Well, that's obviously a VERY broad question. My current view is the responsibility for said determination is between every human and her/his maker.  

17 hours ago, penguin2 said:

 

Looks like a year ago lots of countries were encouraged to sing and record this song. There's several versions listed on the Way YouTube channel.

 

Meh. I understand the words better but still find this group to be somewhat more inauthentic than the lovely people from Gabon.

Bless their hearts. 

To recap: 

The topic is NOT Victor Wierwille's teachings. It's not Loy C Martindale's teaching.

What did Gandhi say? 

The topic is THIS

8 hours ago, chockfull said:

Now he has flipped the script.

To me that is clear evidence of either a complete change of heart or of the fact that Stayed is deliberately trolling topics he has no belief in.

Are you asking STL for clarification???? Are you sure those are the only two possibilities?

2 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Human history suggests many cultures believed in a god or gods.

So, I take it you're asking for clarification?

I apologize if I implied that was something Dr Tyson suggested.

I'm thankful you viewed the video multiple times. 

Not everything I've learned over the 37 years since I left Victor Wierwille's cult could possibly be included in or explained by even the most brilliant American astrophysicist. 

55 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I even have compassion for how they became more involved.  Didn't that also happen to most (all?) of us?  We too were groomed into thinking something was good that turned out to be poisonous, dangerous; and some of us got more and more involved, as Penworks did; others of us became part of the WC; yet more others became recruiters (Ambassadors/Way Disciples) etc.   How far might some of us have gone, if pushed far enough?  Many of our boundaries, especially sexually, were warped beyond comprehension.

Excellent reflection and introspection.

56 minutes ago, Twinky said:

But despite feeling compassion towards these girls, I wouldn't trust them and others of their ilk for a very, very long time.  We know how long it has taken for us to get TWI out of our heads, to get our thinking straight.  Some indeed still refuse to see.  And most here were somewhat older than these three immature 15 y.o. girls.  I wonder how many years it would take for them to get ISIS out of their heads - if that's what they want?  

Hmmmm... it's been 37 yrs so far for me... and I didn't get pushed as far as those kids had been.

15 hours ago, WordWolf said:

...when it doesn't happen here, he blames the people trying to get the deliverance.  Things were never vpw's fault, to hear vpw say it. 

Other times, he copied anecdotes from real Christians- which wasn't as common because he would lack details. But their accounts helped him fill in the details of the fictional accounts he allegedly performed. 

If there is a Real God, this is NOT how He works, nor would He rely on con-men and hoaxsters to get the job done.  But you've heard He did- that's right, the con man insisted God Almighty worked through him and he was doing what God Almighty wanted.   Looking back, do you still buy that one?

No, I do not still buy that one. 

However, your post raises different questions. Reasonably so.

I would hope TWIers who still believe could muster the courage and rational reasoning to respond.

As to relying on con-men and hoaxsters to get the job done, it seems to suggest a negative response to you musing about whether "there is a Real God."

Human history suggests many cultures believed in a god or gods. I would ask how and why there's so much variation throughout the millennia.

Neal de Grasse Tyson has suggested answers to such questions. He's a smart and very thoughtful guy (scientist)

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Hey Dude, I am merely asking for clarification and wondering what his meaning was. Isn’t that the purpose of a discussion? If he is criticizing me, fine, I have no problem with it. Possibly we can come to an understanding.

In the grand scheme of things/life not too much that is posted on GSC matters if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. The reason it matters to me is someone trying to breakout from TWI can obtain support and understanding here.  Reading a post may free them from the bondage they are in. 

Ok then! 

"He wrote more about this that I plan to use in a longer article, but for now, in light of recent news stories about the power of ISIS to brainwash vulnerable and disaffected young men and women around the world, I felt it was important to address this subject. It is real. It happened to me."

I wish I could say this was an isolated phenomenon in the world, and in the US, today. It IS real. I believe it happened to me too.

This youtube video shed a bit of light for me. I saw myself as this psychologist describes as both the child having been emotionally neglected but even more tragically, as the parent who did the same thing to my child. I believe your experience, Penworks, is related or parallel to mine.

Has anyone examined their own contributions to threads like this? Do you think this kind of thing might have factored into the person who posted on reddit figuring s/he might not be able to find the answers sought for his/her early life in TWI?

Just sayin' 

34 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Actually I meant the quote was literally autocorrected.

But please carry on with your inner dialogue.

 I wish each of you a lifetime of happiness, joy, and healing. 

5 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Hi cman

Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.

Dude, I don't and wouldn't speak for cman, but really even if he was criticizing you, blow it off. In the grand scheme of things/life, it doesn't matter whether anyone here ever agrees with us or not. 

14 minutes ago, chockfull said:

https://reddit.com/r/cultsurvivors/s/KmD4qsE1Ye
 

This person posted:

Looking for former members of The Way International (2005-2015)

Support Request

Hi all. I realize this may be a long shot and if anyone thinks this would be better off in a different subreddit please let me know.

I’m looking for information about TWI during these years or former members to connect with. I’ve browsed GreaseSpot Cafe and while I’ve only scratched the surface there, the community doesn’t seem to be what it used to be. So here I am.

Some extra info: I’m 23 currently. I lived at both Headquarters and at Camp Gunnison for several years. My parents were active members since around 2005 and served in The Way Corps. In 2010, TWI relocated us out of Camp Gunnison and although we were living off of the compound at this point, we were still involved in the ministry and hosted biweekly fellowships in our home. Because of family matters in the years to come, I’d say around 2014 my parents lessened their involvement with The Way. Even still, they still believed in the organization, tithed, attended local fellowships, etc. And that’s how things are currently.

Around 2015 I started to question everything. Christianity. The things I was taught to believe. How I grew up. Everything. All that to say, it’s been some time since I had my suspicions about The Way. But this year… this year I’ve had the urge to do get answers my parents won’t give me. To do some digging, research, and to hopefully heal. Again, I’m not sure if this is the right place to reach out or not but if anyone has any information they can give me or sites/forums for me to look into, please send it my way. Thank you.

****

I'm not sure what this person could or would expect of GSC.

However, my recommendation is to post some questions here (at GSC, not necessarily just this thread) as broadly or specifically as s/he would like. Hopefully people with related experience/insight will answer. 

On 9/21/2023 at 10:57 AM, GeorgeStGeorge said:

I usually don't put up a "cone" until we have a named storm, but TD 16 looks to be a tropical storm hitting the eastern seaboard this weekend:

George

Thanks for the link, Charlene. 

I resist putting a label on myself, at least in terms of religious (or non) leanings. But I totally relate to this paragraph from your post on the link you provided above. Well, except for the yoga part. But I do have a favorite local gym/fitness center where I like to work out. 

These days, I just try to enjoy the eclectic nature of my interests, spend time with friends and family, and soak up contemplative moments practicing a little yoga and meditation, and walking on the beach. And writing. When I think about this stage of my life, I can’t help but recall one of my favorite quotes. It is advice Shakespeare’s character, Polonius, a philosopher, gives his son as he leaves home, “This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.” (Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78-82).

I realize GSC doesn't condemn those who no longer believe in God. 

But I figure there are still followers of Wierwille's ministry who might benefit from this (probably quite salient) reflection.

1 hour ago, Charity said:

Hi, what's the name of the song?  I found it hard to hear the words other that the "together" part.

Same here. Which is probably why it didn't matter much to me what the lyrics were, I just enjoyed the video. 

34 minutes ago, penguin2 said:

Except that the lyrics are from HQ way prod. 

 

Oh well... 

Speaking of free will, this video shares some insight on why and how brands influence our choices. 

2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

He wasn't very good with Hebrew and Aramaic, either.

Either victor's god was a lousy teacher or victor was a lousy student or both..

Israeli historian (his nationality, not the focus of his research) Yuval Noah Harari, apparently in his book Homo Deus, posits the notion of collective imagination. My current understanding of Victor Wierwille's ministry and organization approaches it as a very definite collective imagination which many of us embraced FOR A TIME.

Based on the book 'Homo Deus' by Yuval Noah Harari (also author of Sapiens), this video explores the potential futures of humanity through the rise of humanism, the crisis of liberalism, and the emergence of god-like beings and dataism. Key topics covered include: How humanism replaced religion in modern society The flaws underlying liberal values like free will and the self Scenarios where AI renders many humans economically useless The prospect of a small elite upgrading to become god-like superhumans Dataism as a new techno-religion valuing information flow Reflections on finding meaning in life and imagination as our superpower Watch this video to understand the historical patterns shaping our possible futures and how we can prepare for the challenges ahead.

https://youtu.be/Ucewn8J5fJA?si=rDqrY9U2RUIZXgUn How close are we to [becoming?] Homo Deus?

Could it also/rather have been Buck Dopp's close in that review,

Undertow is a lively story and a cautionary tale for the youth who want to search for truth and then save the world. They may end up sacrificing their time, energy and money in the process. The money can be replaced, but the time is gone forever. What glitters isn’t always gold and as Edge discovers, the Word of God may not really be the true Word of God and therefore not the Will of God either.

12 minutes ago, Charity said:

this one I found on the internet which I liked for its cultural authenticity.  

You nailed it. Lovely faces. Lovely movement. Lovely wardrobes. Conveys much more authenticity. Thank you, Charity. Probably (I surmise) because New Knoxville doesn't get to lord it over these people. 

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Paradox, isn't it?

Life is full of them, isn't it? 

38 minutes ago, Ham said:

 I am at peace.  What about you?

Pretty much, yes.