Grace Valerie Claire

On 5/8/2020 at 10:17 PM, Scott S. said:

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out of Loys mouth got me the mark and avoid.  How dare I question.

Scott, thanks for sharing your story.  I left TWI, in 1988, after being in for ten years.  I sent WOW, hated it, took the AC, and thought it was a lot of S--t.  I left TWI, quietly, and wish I had left sooner than I did. I had some wonderful times in TWI, but it took up so much of my time, and money, I left.  I know about dead end jobs; I've had more than my share.  Back in 1985, I was tired of being poor, so I joined the Navy.  One woman from the 14th Corps, wanted me to go WOW again, and I decided I was 28, and old enough to make my own decisions.  Life in the Navy, wasn't all Moonlight, and Roses, but it was better than starving as a WOW.  Nowadays, life is good!  I officially retired a year ago, and have money in the bank.  It used to drive me nuts, when people in TWI, told me what I should do with my life. Once I left, I suddenly had more time, and money.  I will always be thankful for TWI, for turning me on to God, but 10 years of my life in  the Ministry was more than enough. 

1 hour ago, annio said:

Picking up here re: some emptiness... Any thoughts??-

So here's my story- old friends, Branch coordinators (w/ twi and w/ Chris Geer) who left town around '93, have returned, and have finally moved out of Chris Geer mode (and into Gerald Wren's sphere apparently). They had married my h and me in '86; us believers here were a very close knit bunch until things began to fall apart a few years later. Several other folks who moved away (geographically or from my fellowship group) are back too and are joining the above folks around GW. One of them connected w/ me, and invited me to fellowship w/ them / listen to GW phone hook-up. Not going to as I mentioned in another post, BUT!

There are still attachments from back then that were unceremoniously severed amidst trauma, and I want to reconnect, heal, and re-establish things on present day Realities. But am NERVOUS! Part of me knows that it could be like going to one's 50th highschool reunion- the emotional ties just won't be there any more. But that would be good to process. Plus I think it could be really good to catch up with them; an awful lot of H2O has gone under our bridges!  And maybe later, I would want to find out where they are at doctrinally, and enjoy what we do have in common, and allow gracious room for what we don't... IF they can, and do not become dogmatic etc. Guess that is what I am most nervous about... We were all buddy-buddy and kind to each other when we were "like-minded" around vpw-ianism, but what about now?

Well, Covid would only permit phone calls for me, so actually going out for coffee won't happen for awhile... Maybe sooner than later tho... Anyone have similar situations? Thanks!

 

Annio, personally, with Covid going around, I am not up to visiting other people, but even a phone call nowadays would be welcomed.  Hopefully, some time this year, Covid will be brought under control, and life will go on somewhat normally.  But before then, phone calls, and other forms of communication, will be a blessing to many of us.

1 hour ago, annio said:

Well. Gerald Wren and wife made their way to Bloomington IN a few months ago. Got invited to listen to a phone hook-up on Weds... Reading DWBH's thoughts here again clarified things for me; nope, not going to fellowship w/ those folks, even though I would really like to reconnect with old friends that have moved back to town, or who are emerging from Cris Geer land and coming into GW's ministry apparently. Altho Who Knows what things may have changed in GW's thinking since 2016 when DWBH last posted I think? Still don't feel led to join old friends around him.

Anyway, thank you for being here GSC-ers! Best in 2021!!

 

Annio, why can't you connect with your old friends??  It's not for me to tell you what to do, but I love to connect with old friends.  Once I get my vaccine shots, I plan on visiting some old friends in RI, and taking a cruise with my family members.  They have their views, I have mine.  We are adults; we can agree to disagree.  If the topics get too political, we can stop, and discuss other things.  Best in 2021 to everyone here at the GSC!!

On 4/15/2020 at 5:28 PM, T-Bone said:

Good point – my problem is most of the time I don’t know what I’m talking about …and I’m lazy so I hit the repeat button…ah shoot I’ve said too much already.

T-Bone, not true!!  I think you do know what you are talking about!  I think your posts, are kind, and gentle, and interesting.  Just my POV. 

On 3/24/2020 at 3:57 PM, T-Bone said:

welcome to Grease Spot, George and thanks for sharing your story...I look forward to your input - and along the lines of what Waysider said, a good, civil discussion helps broaden everyone's horizon.

T-Bone, as usual, I look forward to your posts.  I think the key word in your post, is the word, "civil."  Yes, we can agree to disagree, but please let us be civil.  I try to be civil in my posts, but I am sure I might have unintentionally been rude, or disrespectful to others. If I have, please forgive me.  Thanks.

On 6/29/2020 at 1:39 AM, Rocky said:

A local high school English teacher and I connected on FB a few days ago. I didn't tell her about Wierwille's obsession with a book called the Myth of the Six Million. But had I mentioned it, she would have known what I was referring to.

She recommended a book to me, Night by Elie Wiesel. It's the record of a witness. Mr. Wiesel was a child when he was taken to a concentration camp with his family.

This is not a discussion of politics then or now. My intent is simply to call attention to an original witness account of a significant era in 20th Century history.

It is available as a pdf file for no charge at the link above.

If you believe that history repeats itself, or at least rhymes, this book may interest you.

After I finish reading it, I might post a synopsis here.

Rocky, I read that book years ago, and I thought it was well-written, and very illuminating.  I would highly recommend it, and his other books.  I believe EW won the Nobel Peace Prize, back in 1988.  

On 12/16/2020 at 12:33 AM, WordWolf said:

This question came up on another thread, and I didn't want it to get lost.  I'm hoping to get some thoughts on this one.

 

Here's what we know.....

vpw got static for his India trip from his denomination.  He made it independently of anything they said, and they made it crystal clear he was not representing them and was doing this entirely on his own.    vpw CLAIMED he was the first such minister who'd ever taken his ENTIRE family on such a trip (although baby JP was left with his grandparents for all the months of the trip.) 

 

vpw CLAIMED that the majority of his access was the result of a miraculous healing- an account we all heard in pfal.  Supposedly, vpw was hanging off the back of a train when it was about to move.  A local asked for healing but was specific he didn't believe in Jesus.  vpw supposedly did a miracle that transformed his arm instantly as the train began pulling away. It makes no sense in physics, and is cinematic.  Supposedly, on the same train was some Indian notable who represented some other notable. The one on the train saw the  "miracle" and that's why he got the second notable to open the doors in India to vpw.    

Mrs W's account was rather specific.  Dr I.S. Williams opened all the doors for vpw, and she said nothing about such a miraculous healing. 

As vpw went around the country, he swallowed the line Williams was spouting, and repeated it back- which some locals wanted to hear.   In other words, Williams USED vpw to advance his own agenda, and vpw lacked the wit to see through it.     This carried on all the way through vpw speaking on "The Dilemna of Foreign Missions"- which became a book when someone transcribed hs speech.

 

Ok, Williams stroked his ego, and that's enough reason for vpw to appear.  Williams offered "secret" (behind-the-scenes) knowledge-  and vpw ALWAYS ate that up no matter how ridiculous it was.      That's enough for why vpw showed up.

 

Why in the world did vpw drag his FAMILY across India to all these stops?

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

 

 

WW, interesting post.  I wonder if VPW, wanted to leave Ohio, and see a foreign country, on OPM.  Just a guess, on my part, but perhaps he felt he was entitled to live on other people's money, because he was a MOG,(if only in his mind.)  I think VPW, had a hearing problem; he heard what he wanted to hear, and nothing he didn't. 

56 minutes ago, Allan said:

have heard (only a rumour) that Donna is reconnecting with Craig.

Allan, I don't think they will get back together.  Donna likes power, and position, neither of which Craig has.

17 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

He spent a LOT LESS time than he'd made it sound.   To hear him say it, he was an involved dad and successful dog trainer.  He always pushed responsibilities to other people- and raising people and dogs counted among those responsibilities.  

 

To hear vpw say it, he was the first minister to take his whole family on a missionary tour of India.  Among the falsehoods in that statement was him taking "his whole family" (his words, not mine.)  His youngest son, JP, stayed behind with grandparents for the SEVERAL MONTHS of the trip.   In general, he spent LITTLE time actually raising his kids, but was fine taking all the credit for someone else's work.  Then again, how can this be a surprise with such a serial plagiarist and conman?

WW, you are so right!!  I often wonder why he couldn't wait a year, or two to take his entire family, including JP, to India.  I can't imagine leaving a newborn, behind on such a long trip.  I never understood why VPW, was hell-bent on going to India in the first place.  What was his purpose in dragging, his wife, and other family members on the trip?  

On 5/2/2020 at 10:33 PM, rubina said:

I've noticed that there's always been a lot of second generation wayfers that get into trouble. I really wonder what is at the root of that.

My best guess is that their parents were always too caught up in their TWI "responsibilities" to spend the proper amount of time raising them.   

 

Rubina, I think it was sad, that parents were so busy, with TWI "responsibilities", they didn't have time to raise their kids.  I often wonder how much time, VPW spent raising his kids.  

1 hour ago, socks said:

Thank you! I'm proud of the work we put in. The time, and remember - "it was on your dime", as I like to say. As it grew and continued it was financed by the ABS of the Way's members. It honored the music that so many great souls were a part of it. 

The product itself was a work in progress. I used to wince that people were or felt forced to listen to music they didn't like sometimes, namely ours. I've studied, played and enjoyed music all my life and although I've listened to a lot I don't prefer I would never in my life insist anyone be immersed in music they flat out didn't like. I tried to encourage people to build their own "libraries" of inspirational music, make cassette tapes of stuff that made them feel good, happy, inspired, thoughtful, whatever. Not a terribly profound idea but one that would work well as time went on and technology did too. Today, playlists. 

On the whole I'm proud of what we did though, the intent was to bless, to inspire, to give an additional source for someone to see and learn what the Word of God taught. It was far from perfect, but it was a hearty effort by everyone involved and as time went on others did things with dance and various arts. Unfortunately some of those who came onboard with Craig had no investment in the legacy of the work and no heart for the love of it and managed to dismantle it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Socks, what a shame!!  So that's what happened to JN.  How sad.  I have long forgotten most of the teachings, I heard in TWI, but I still remember JN's music.  Even today, I still sing their songs, and it makes me happy!

On 9/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, annio said:

Can't find a previous topic on vpw et al's ego problems, so am starting this:

Just heard about Any Stanley's "Laws of Applause"- If a (Christian) leader starts buying into the deceit that it is all about him/her and should be, then three things can happen:

- The exceptional (performance, revelation, etc) that is applauded becomes expected, [and pressure mounts for more membership, new revelations, etc.]

- Admiration/applause can lead to the leader's sense of entitlement/ [access to ppls' money, power, bodies, etc.]

- The honoring/applause can become addictive, [and he/she need more and more...]

What's in brackets is my own explaining... So these apply, right??? Hell yeah, to vpw, lcm, et al. Just thought I would share...

Annio, very interesting topic.  Thanks for posting.  I just wanted to add my two cents: When I was young, and insecure, I needed a lot of attention.  I think for some kids, attention is a form of security; thus it equals love.  However, my mother never understood this; she was very self-absorbed.  Throughout, my childhood, I felt unloved, and because of it, I was a very insecure, and unhappy person.  However, one day, I realized God loves me.  What a profound impact that had on me!!  God, Almighty, the Creator of Heaven, and Earth, loves me.  Why, I will never know; I am nothing special.  I'm not gifted in anything; nor am I particularly intelligent.  I am not beautiful, nor am I wealthy.  But for some reason, God loves me.  His son Jesus, died for me, a sinner.  In my case, a sinner unknown by most of the world.  To this day, that fact astonishes me, but it warms my heart daily.  I know my siblings love me, and I love them in return.  I have a few friends, that I love dearly.  However, my inability to be a perfect, loving person, at all times, is fine with God.  He knows my heart; He knows I strive to be a loving, kind person every day.  Some days I am, and some days, I'm not.  In my own humble way, I strive to be the woman God wants me to be.  I don't need the world's love, and acclaim, I have God's.  Thus, I am secure nowadays, in ways I wasn't as a child.  I don't need to feed my small ego, in self-destructive ways.  No power in this world, will ever separate me from God, and His love.  None!!

On 9/23/2019 at 5:41 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Amen, Twinky. I came out in June 2014 which shocked some people in churches but my friends from high school and college have supported me

TLB, good for you honey!!  Love is love; gay or straight. 

On 8/18/2019 at 11:16 PM, Lifted Up said:

As long as I'm around, I may as well mentioned the meeting VPW called all us corps going WOW to in the woods at ROA '78. He made sure we each got a burger, then cautioned us to watch ourselves sexually, because he did not want to pay for any more abortions. There ws no hint of anythng moral in his tone either way, on this issue; he sounded like  he just wanted to avoid his "ministry" getting a bad name. Hmmm, "either way", was that a Freudian pun?

 

LU, I went WOW in 1978, and vaguely remember that meeting.  What did he expect when he sent out families, of two young men, and two young women?  

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Amen Grace! Sometimes when I reflect on my past I am turned off by how eager and egotistical I was to dream of changing the world – to the detriment of what I put into relationships with my wife and kids. I mean - I could be the most understanding, patient and supportive person toward anyone I was “under-shepherding in The Word” – but with very little energy leftover for my family – so I could be a major insensitive a$$hole at home. Don’t get me wrong –I’m not knocking the folks that can handle it all – I just think we all have different capacities and don’t think I have the energy level to be a pastor, preacher, or some activist AND a family man.

Speaking of energy levels – we recently got into watching     What We Do in the Shadows  a mockumentary comedy horror – of centuries-old vampires interacting with the modern world and other supernatural beings on Hulu. One character Colin Robinson is an energy vampire who lives by draining humans and vampires of their energy by being boring or frustrating – see   What We Do in the Shadows – Colin Robinson, energy vampire   …It’s a very funny show and the energy vampire makes me think of those night owls after-meetings in the corps – there was always someone who would drone on for all eternity about how they "really got delivered by that last teaching"…oh yeah, akin to Colin’s energy vampire What We Do in the Shadows has an emotional vampire (played by Vanessa Bayer) – who is an advanced form of energy vampire — an emotional vampire — who feeds off of the pity and sadness generated by her outlandish stories of suffering and misfortune. That makes me think of the repeat “offenders” in those unnecessarily super-extended night owls – wondering about the “efficacy” of the deliverance.

 

== == == == 

DVD bonus feature: What We Do in the Shadows theme song

T-Bone, oh yes, I remember people like that out on the field when I was a WOW years ago.  Perhaps some of them really did enjoy the teaching(s), but I think many of them were phonies.  Some teachings were great, some su--ked.  I hated all the phoniness in TWI, and there was an excessive amount of it.  I always tried to be the "real" me, but sometimes people thought I wasn't being "spiritually-mined."  Nowadays, I try to be a "real person", instead of a phony.  Most people can deal with the "real me", as long as I am, polite, and respectful of their opinions.  How life has changed, and for better IMHO.

3 hours ago, annio said:

Perhaps extreme denial also resulted in him being delusional, and believing himself to be persecuted when way corps folks did not revolve their vocations or vacations around his programs...

Annio, wow!!  Good point! 

On 9/18/2019 at 12:48 AM, WordWolf said:

The sad thing is, if vpw had spoken sincerely and from the heart when he said that, it would have been a really good thing.

He directed people to read Ephesians 6, starting at verse 10.  He read aloud, misreading aloud so everyone reading along could catch the distinction.

" 'Finally, my brethren, be strong in vp wierwille."  *group 'no'* "Say it LOUDER!"  *group 'NO!'*    "That's right. You're not strong in vp wierwille.  Many of you may have heard God's Word from me, but I didn't die for you."       *shout from offside that sounded like VF* "IT WAS JESUS CHRIST!"    "You said it, man!"      Then vpw criticized people who say to look at this or that leader. "I look at The Word, baby!" 

 

Sadly, all of that was show.  vpw wanted us to look to vpw, but when the microphones were on, he knew to say the opposite.    Who would possibly believe the accounts of the victims, of the abused, when vpw said the opposite IN PUBLIC?   Who would imagine vpw could be such a Grade A Hypocrite that he could do that all the time?  It sounds ridiculous, and if there wasn't so much testimony from so many witnesses and so many victims, it might not be possible to accept that vpw did it.

 

vpw SO deluded himself into thinking he was "THE Man of God" that- when he was in his final hours of life, he wracked his brain, looking for how he could somehow have "missed it" and failed God so he couldn't Super-Believe into instant health.   He looked back on his life, and was unable to find anything sufficient.   That was all for himself, alone. Now, THAT'S quite a level of delusion.

WW, yes it was "quite a level of delusion."  I look back on my life, and realize, how many mistakes I made, and wish I could undo them.  I can't go back, but I can learn from them, and try to be a better person today.  I think VPW died, believing he really was a MOG.  I think he lived most of his life in denial.  When my life ends, I want to know, I made the world a better place, for at least one person.  To me, that equals a happy, successful life.

1 hour ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

We all have the occasional moments of re-living an experience in our minds with a better outcome.  I love the French expression for it, "esprit d'escalier," or "spirit of the staircase," as if you've just walked out of a meeting and are headed down the stairs, thinking, "I SHOULD have said so-and-so!"

I suspect that the deeper the trauma, the more embellished the revision.  This is not delusion; it's making yourself wiser and happier, and therefore more whole.

God bless you,

George

George, great post!!  Thanks!!

4 hours ago, Lifted Up said:

Grace, your heart is so beautiful. I was sexually assaulted in the Corps in 1979 by peers. I was being "loosened up" as per VPW "doctrine", and I know that was it because I overheard those exact words used about me. I only fully recalled my assault in 2017, thanks to my survivor friend who is amazing. I think of her when I read your post because she suffered repeated sexual abuse as a child from her older brother long ago. But she is also doing well, having helped co found a national child àbuse fighting group. And she knows lots about the subject: her compassion and knowledge of problems façed by us male survivors is what helped me. But perhaps even more importantly, despite never being in a cult, she knows we were in many ways treated as children. She recommended a book by Mike Lew for male child abuse survivors despite knowing my assault happened as an adult. When I told her the book was helping me, she replied that she knew it would. She also gives me a very vital medicine for recovery: laughter. You have probably seen her sometimes on tv.

LU, thanks for the compliment, but if I do have a "beautiful heart", it's due to God.  God has rescued me, from so many potential mistakes, I have made over the years.  Sexual assault is sexual assault, whether it happens as a child, or an adult.  I also have access to wonderful therapists; they believe me when I talk about my childhood trauma.  I have spoken to a number of female Veterans, who experienced Military Sexual Trama, (MST), while serving in various branches of the military. Interesting, many people forget men are also victims of MST.  LU, years ago, a woman here at the GSC, described her sexual assault in graphic images, during her time in TWI.  It made me cry, but it also made me realize many of us, are victims of sexual assault.  There is life after sexual abuse, but it has taken me decades, and decades to process my experiences of sexual abuse as a child.  But, God is merciful, and He is capable of healing our hearts.  For this, I am thankful. 

On 3/6/2020 at 1:25 PM, T-Bone said:

Thanks for those links, Rocky...Guy Winch’s emotional first-aid talk - when he got into feelings of loneliness and failure that really struck a nerve with me, reminding me of how I initially felt after leaving TWI. I had such a connection with the group (emotionally & socially) and had hopes of achieving great things with them. 

I guess the mounting questions and doubts I harbored were a big chunk of why I decided to sever all times...something I didn’t anticipate though was the social void that left me in ; I think there was an interim time of ...alienation (?) when I was neither here nor there (in TWI) - between worlds ? ...anyway there’s also the long and drawn out process of unpacking / sorting out the mental baggage. But there’s something to be said for the indomitable spirit within us. That ties into the link you gave on emotional resilience. Great article ! The following is a quote from it:

“Psychologists have identified some of the factors that make a person resilient, such as a positive attitude, optimism, the ability to regulate emotions, and the ability to see failure as a form of helpful feedback. Research shows that optimism helps blunt the impact of stress on the mind and body in the wake of disturbing experiences. And that gives people access to their own cognitive resources, enabling cool-headed analysis of what might have gone wrong and consideration of behavioral paths that might be more productive.”

 

What is life Like after TWI? reconnecting with old friends and family...making new connections on the journey...mentally rewriting a different narrative for my time in TWI...always developing critical and creative thinking skills.

T-Bone, I think life after TWI, is very liberating.  I have far more time, and money now, than I did during my time in TWI.  I'm not out wasting my time, "witnessing ", nor am I taking a lot of boring, meaningless Bible Classes.  I sat through the PFAL class, at least a dozen times, and hated it.  I am much kinder, and loving now, than I was as a "believer. "  Nowadays, I say what I mean, and mean what I say.  I am allowed to be my authentic self; not what some one thinks I should be.  Looking back, I think I was an jerk, while in TWI.  We were always expected to stay "positive," even during times of sorrow.  Nowadays, I have the right to agree, or disagree with various POVS.  Years ago, whatever TWI said, was what we all said, even if we privately disagreed with it.  Nowadays, my life is wonderful, and I am free to be the person God wants me to be.  How liberating that is!!

On 4/10/2020 at 5:33 PM, Raf said:

An amusing thought just struck me.

As we sit at home (many of us. Most of us?) during this coronavirus scare, GSC has not seen any bounce in activity. And I can't help but laugh.

Remember all those drive-by posters who poked their heads in and said "GET A LIFE"?

Whatever happened to them? Because a lot of us clearly did. GSC was (as it should have been) a resource, a place to seek and find understanding, alternate voices, sympathetic ears. A place to hurt and to heal. The majority of people who stopped posting are, indeed, success stories.

They got a life!

To those who left, to those still here, to those we've lost along the way... Cheers!

This cafe is still open.

 

Raf, bless you, and all the others who keep this cafe open.

On 4/27/2020 at 9:57 PM, Stayed Too Long said:

I have a close relative who seems to hold it as a badge honor that she has never attempted any type of modern communication. Not even a cell phone. She was given a cell phone by her daughter to use in case of an emergency. I asked what the cell number was and was told, with a smile on her face, “I threw it in the bottom of my purse and have no plans to ever use it.”  She could connect with her children and grandkids, but refuses to do so. Go figure.

STL, I wonder if they connect with her.  My grandmother died 30 years ago, and never did that woman ever say anything nice to me.  When she died, she died.  I didn't go to her funeral, and to this day, I can't remember one nice thing she ever did for me, or said to me.  

On 4/27/2020 at 2:00 PM, Stayed Too Long said:

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. 

When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing just fine was vety comforting. I wasn’t married or had a girlfriend, but my shipmates who were, longed to know about their children’s school grades and who their latest friend was. I witnessed grown men completely break down when they got a “Dear John”  letter. One even jumped ship and swam ashore to the Viet Cong. 

My daughter and her family recently moved away from home. A promotion sent them a 1,000 miles away. Adjustment at first was quite difficult, but gradually it became easier to accept. Enter modern technology. The  separation has been so much easier to accept because of IM, Facetime, and the multitude of other communication devices. My daughters family just got a new puppy, and seeing the happiness in my granddaughters faces is immeasurable. Watching them chasing the pooch or him running them down is so much fun. Viewing them live as they open their birthday gifts is so neat. Just watching them for 15 minutes drawing their latest cartoon character, or seeing them staying within the lines coloring a teddy bear. Seeing my wife’s face light up as she so intently observes their every movement, is priceless.

Yes, modern technology has allowed our family to stay up to date with each other. Is it as good as physically being together? No. But, it is certainly  better than waiting weeks for a letter to arrive. 

 

 

 

STL, wow!!  Your post brought back a lot of memories.  Years ago, when I was in the Navy, mail call really was the high light of the day. A letter from home, was priceless. My mother, God bless her, used to write me several times a week.  Even, of she just discussed the weather, it was wonderful to hear from her.  Years ago, when I was stationed in Italy, one day I received five letters from her!!  I think some of the other Navy members were a bit envious of me, because I got so many letters from home.  My first year in Italy was horrible; I was homesick, as Hell.  Italy is a wonderful country, and I am thankful I lived there for two years, but home is the US. I I didn't like the Navy, but I did learn a lot.  Overall, I had a rough time, during my five year career.  I never saw combat, unlike some of my Male relatives. Even today, I am thankful for our military men, and women.  They risk so much, and ask for very little. 

On 6/25/2020 at 3:26 AM, Twinky said:

(So no point in this new thread.)

Twinky, out completely?  Or, out part way?  

On 6/27/2020 at 12:15 AM, T-Bone said:

Saying that to a little kid is just plain cruel – besides being wildly foolish (what if the child crosses paths with the supposedly dead parent?) And if I’m understanding your story right – that’s exactly what happened when the divorced parents remarried…I think if you told a kid something like “your dad never loved you anyway” would be pretty psychologically damaging all by itself – but to say “your dad is dead” presents a totally hopeless situation to the kid. Now it appears there’s no way to verify that or improve on the relationship.

Anyway  - how horrible to do that to kids…I’ve never personally heard of death “stories” like that but I’m familiar with TWI’s other manipulative and divisive tactics to force people to choose between family/friends/loved ones and “The Word”.

T-Bone, yes it is horrible.  I never understood why so many of us were forced, to choose between TWI, and our families.  I personally think, families are the anchors, that keep us going through the rough spots of life.  My family told me years ago, that TWI, was a cult.  But, I was young, and naive, and thought I knew better than they.  Thank God, they stood by me after I left.