Grace Valerie Claire
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Posts posted by Grace Valerie Claire
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On 4/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, WayKid2019 said:
Hey everyone, I’ve been looking at this site for years and decided to join. I was raised in The Way and just left in 2017, with my husband who was also raised in The Way.
We left after seeing the deep corruption and evil within the organization, and after becoming Christians within 24 hours of each other. We have found true freedom and healing over the past 2 years in getting to know Jesus as our God, and though our families have rejected us, have found an amazing family within our church community.
Both my husband and I desire to help those who are struggling with leaving The Way, and who are struggling with doing the brain surgery required to unravel all of the lies. We have been able to maintain our faith through this process, and actually understand what “freedom in Christ” means.
Personally, I am still working through a variety of issues resulting from my upbringing (both from TWI and a rough parent situation). Counseling and inner healing ministry have been incredibly helpful, and I am hopeful that with time, I will be completely free.
Our prayer is to see The Way die completely, and we pray for healing to those who have left but still hold onto the harmful beliefs that the cult teaches its followers. So many people leave TWI but are never truly free from it. My husband and I are available if anyone has questions, or if you are hurting and need a friend who understands what you’re going through.
Hello Waykid. Hello, and welcome. I don't know if you, and your husband know Leah, LCM's oldest child. She has posted a few times here, and I find her posts very interesting, and informative. I joined TWI decades decades ago, and left after 10 years. At one time, I truly thought kids raised in TWI, were truly blessed. I thought they didn't have to go through all the S--t I did growing up in an unhappy home. Wow!! Was I ever wrong!!! I know that many of you kids growing up in Way World, had serious issues with drugs, and alcohol, among other problems. Not all of course, but some did. I could go on, and list more of the S--t, some of you kids went through, but I think you know about this, than I do. I am so happy that you, and your husband left TWI, and found a church that works for you!! God bless both of you!!
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in New Members
On 5/15/2019 at 1:43 PM, WordWolf said:Hello. Have a seat. Feel free to look around.
If you're new, you'll be shocked at some of the opinions, but there's few opinions universally held here. We disagree with each other about a lot of things, and find the discussions to be healthy. If all you're used to is twi or twi-lite, that may be a whole new experience, or even a shocking experience. Take it at your own pace.
BTW, most of us may hold strong opinions- but that doesn't mean our lives revolve around them, or that we're very emotional about them. There are differences.
WW, thank God we are allowed to have differences. In Way World, if I had a different opinion than VPW's, I was reproved. His opinion was the only one that mattered; my opinions were wrong if they differed from his. What Hog Wash!!
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5 hours ago, Rocky said:
He and his now ex-wife.
Rocky, wow!! I can't believe both of them allowed their daughter to be abused by a POS, and yet they were allowed to go free. A pox on them!!
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16 minutes ago, Twinky said:
I live in the UK and even I managed to see a TV doco about all this. So it's well "open knowledge."
And no, I don't believe Carmen has been charged. Or even horse-whipped.
Twinky, I can't believe that Carmen was allowed to go scott-free. He gave his under age daughter to an adult male, and he walks free?? His daughter suffered years of abuse, and Carmen isn't charged with any crimes??!!
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1 hour ago, Rejoice said:
Grace; it is beyond me how any human being can justify their predatory behavior, especially with young girls/children. A seared conscience comes to mind...
Rejoice, did Carmen, go to jail for child abuse? If not, I think he should have. What a jerk!!
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18 hours ago, Rejoice said:
In order to be heard and to release the negativity, she went public with the story in 2014.
Rejoice, thank you for the link. How could Carmen, the father, not know what VB was going to do with the young girls??!! I think his excuses are bulls--t!! What did he think would happen to them?? I think the father had his head up his ---. Why else would a grown man want several young girls, not related to him??
Moderator's note: This post was edited to delete a duplication. No content was changed. Modcat5-
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2 hours ago, waysider said:
That's probably why he enlisted the aid of armed bodyguards or why, on at least one documented occasion, a loaded gun was kept under the podium in the BRC..
Way, or perhaps VPW had some mentally unstable body guards.
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On 4/26/2019 at 5:02 PM, Rocky said:
Rocky, excellent!!
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On 4/26/2019 at 12:10 PM, skyrider said:
On April 18th........Revival and Restoration posted a 5-part series of teachings that were recorded in Stateline, Nevada on October 6 & 7, 2018.
- Do these guys still pay homage to twi's Anniversary Weekend that is held the first Sunday of October each year?
- Podium..........check
- Teachings......check
- Students at tables.....check
- Bland repetition.........check
The marketing of this event was entitled The Mystery Living and Real........see, just this subtle hat tip to how wierwille launched his exclusivity from other Christians. On twi's anniversary weekend no less........of all the weekends in a calendar year they picked this one!?! LOL. So, how do they gear up this "revival?" They've got to separate themselves from the pack (other splinters and churches)......else, why would "students" bother to attend their freelancing conferences and give money/support?
Michael Fort is the first teacher in this series on the Book of Colossians. In his teaching at the 30:40 mark, he teaches on "Coconut Monkey Trap." He has a handout depicting this trap and has it passed out to the students......(because it's worthy of a handout in the context of "The Mystery"......???)......oh, the irony.
In my opinion, these R&R corps leaders are STILL caught in wierwille's monkey trap. They put their hand into the coconut to grasp what was inside.......and STILL haven't let go. They refuse to let go and cannot get away.......even though the coconut is tied with a steel cable to twi. The monkey cannot acknowledge why he is trapped in this device.
- Same anniversary weekend
- Same podium-style teachings
- Same authoritarian corps leaders in charge
- Any acknowledgement of wierwille's plagiarism or predation?
- Any admitting to complicity to wierwille's wrongdoings?
- Any repentance to the Lord Jesus Christ and Body of followers?
- Any open discussions to correct all wrong doctrines/practices?
- How about dismantling the delusional MOG-doctrine?
- Lots more.......
The corps monkeys are STILL caught in the trap.
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Sky, same Bullsheet, different day.
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7 minutes ago, Twinky said:
Unfortunately all too true. In my voluntary work with homeless and vulnerable people, I've found two main reasons for homelessness. The main one is relationship breakdown; the second is coming out of prison. There may be an interrelationship, but we don't usually ask why they went to prison in the first place, though in some cases it's because of violence, quite possibly towards their partner or wider family. Younger homeless people might be there because of family breakdown. Then they might turn to drugs to fund their unhappy lifestyle and they get a free bed and board at public expense. When people are released, the problems that put them in prison in the first place haven't been magically healed but rather are considerably exacerbated, not to mention the arrested emotional development that most ex-prisoners sustain.
I suppose it all comes down to relationship breakdown really. I don't know why Manson committed his crimes, what his background was. I don't know why the young women joined him as partners in crime. I don't know why Leslie VH's background made her vulnerable to joining his murderous bunch. His little cult. Why she let him twist her mind to commit heinous crimes.
I do know why some of us joined a cult, how unhappy at home relationships some of us were, what family stresses there were, and what life was life for some people. We too let our minds be re-formed, and then did utterly reprehensible things and also treated non-cult people heinously. For many of us, post-leaving has been/was difficult and it was hard to recover. For some of those in long-term - what do they do but go off and start another cult, seeking the life that they knew before. Keep themselves safe in the prison of their mind.
Relationships. Relationships: build good strong relationships. Help your kids, grandkids, and those around you to build decent relationships. Befriend the vulnerable and help them back into relationship with society.
Okay. Lesson for the day over. Bit early in the morning (before 10am) to be pondering such deep thoughts. I will wake up properly in about half an hour. Now, where's the caffeine?
(= me with morning tea)
Twinky, excellent post!!
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4 minutes ago, Raf said:
I blame WordWolf
Raf, for what? Taking PFAL?
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47 minutes ago, Pamdalarryum said:
I took the PFAL class in 1978. I was stationed in Germany and on the verge of divorce. My wife was stateside and we recently had a baby. I was ‘witnessed’ to by a Military WOW husband and wife who invited me to their house for dinner the next evening. Let the love bombing commence. After a a couple weeks, the seminar they had been repeatedly referring to was coming up soon and they told me it ‘only’ cost $100. They told me it would teach me the things I needed to heal my marriage. I sat through endless hours of staring at a table upon which sat a cassette tape player playing the monotone drone of VPW’s voice. I was envious of the person who flipped the note cards with the verses VPW referring too. The WOW ambassadors stood on the sides of the room with squirt guns, just to keep us alert. Hi carb snacks during breaks, which were few and far between. As soon as PFAL was completed and we were blabbering with the ‘tongues of angels’ — the crew started hitting me up to take the Advanced Class. I made $325 a month at that time. It was expensive finding God.
Pam, "finding God," was very expensive. I also took it back in 1978; a hundred dollars was a lot of money back then. The class always made me want to fall asleep; what a boring class!! Not only was it boring, but I think ultimately it was worthless to me.
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9 hours ago, WordWolf said:
In fairness, since Raf is a guy he ALREADY.... no need to get up, I'll see myself out, everyone. ;)
WW, cute!!
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3 hours ago, Raf said:
Ok. Now that THAT's settled.
Thanks for playing along, everyone.
I started the first countdown thread in 2005, and we lost. I forget what worthy story won, but we were a finalist for our coverage of the busy 2004 hurricane season. We were finalists again the following year, for the busy 2005 hurricane season, but we had no expectation of winning that one (once again Florida was hit by four hurricanes, but one of them was named Katrina, which did a little bit more damage elsewhere -- New Orleans won that year).
Since then our paper won its first Pulitzer in 2013 for an entry written by a few specific people.
This one was different in that it was a massive undertaking by the entire staff. It just means more to us as a group.
Anyway, enough about it. Just, thank you for playing along with the countdown. Maybe we get to do it again next year, for a less tragic reason.
Cheers.
Raf, again congratulations on winning a PP!! What an honor!!
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1 minute ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:
WOW!! Hearty congrats, Raf and your fellow Sun-Sentinel colleagues!! What an honor and accomplishment!
DWBH, you are so right!! What a well-deserved honor!!
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1 hour ago, Raf said:
The Sun Sentinel, based in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., won the public-service medal for its coverage of the February 2018 mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland and its follow-up reporting about local officials’ actions before and after the killing of 17 students and staff members at the school. The public-service award is considered the most prestigious in the 14 journalism categories.
Raf, holy sh--!!!! Raf, that is wonderful!!!! Congratulations!!! Wonderful!!!! Way to go!!!!
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1 minute ago, waysider said:
Oops. We're teetering on the edge. (no politics at GSC) Chalk it up as dry humor instead.
(obligatory chuckle)
WW, I am so glad someone got my little joke!!
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On 1/21/2019 at 7:34 PM, jim jack said:
Recently, while at a fleamarket of all places , I got into a conversation with an older (mid 70's) couple, as he shared with me how he had died..went to heaven & l5 days later had come back alive..this happened, according to him nearly 8 years ago, as his wife basically refused to bury him & believed that "by his stripes, we were healed" & stood on that..combined with prayer etc..
So out of curiosity..does anyone out there have any thoughts on this subject, as I know of several Near Death Experiences on youtube, but this one in particular "lives" here in my little Florida town & is quite willing to answer any questions regarding the event.. Perhaps this subject has already been discussed, but if not..what cha think??
JJ, I think it's Bullsheet!! Believe what you want; I personally think when people die, they die. What bar were you in, when he told you this tall tales??
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On 2/10/2019 at 4:44 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
How about a new Doctrinal sub forum, Raf? Label it “Abject Ex-wayfer Horsedang”. Jack’s posts would comprise most of the forum. As a matter of fact, I suggest you just add them onto Mike’s archived posts and bury them there. Thank you for listening.
DWBH, I second that motion!!
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On 2/25/2019 at 3:08 PM, Raf said:
1. "Sadly, I cannot get this man to accept the notion that the Bible really is the word of God."
Ok, let's start there. The Bible never calls itself the Word of God. That's part of the problem right there. The Bible speaks of the Word of God quite often, but it never has the self-awareness to declare itself to be that Word. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong about the Bible being the Word of God and still be a good Christian.
2. "I think he would like it to be..."
Well, no one asked you what you think, did they? Maybe he has no preference one way or another and is just waiting for you to make a plausible case for your thesis.
3. "... but is overly obstinate and has an awful attitude towards God and his plan for man's redemption."
A lot to unpack there. Has it occurred to you that maybe YOU're the one being "obstinate" with an "attitude" that won't budge no matter how many facts he presents to counter your preconceived notion that the Bible is the Word of God? Like, maybe YOU're the stubborn one, not him? Because he shows you the Bible, and you start making excuses. Oh, that's the Old Testament. God's different now. He's really kind and gentle. He did what he did before because he HAD to to fulfill the plan of redemption.
Problem: The plan of redemption is only the plan of redemption because God wanted it that way. It didn't have to be. He could just accept an apology without shrugging his shoulders and saying oh well because someone found a particular fruit of a particular tree to yummy to pass up (He also could have put that tree ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET but instead put it right in front of two people who did not know good and evil; then said don't eat from that tree. Not exactly a strong case for omniscience. It's like I put a cookie on the table in front of my 7-year-old and said "Don't eat that," then walked out of the room. He's gonna eat the cookie. I'm not all knowing, and I know that).
So your friend, I submit, is not stubborn. Rather, he's amused at the contortions you'll twist yourself into to deny what's obviously written.
There IS not idiom of permission in the Bible. Bullinger, for what he's worth, appears to be the only one who makes an issue of it. It's hardly a scholarly consensus.
The existence of other figures of speech does not verify the "idiom of permission" as something the Bible employs on a regular basis.
It is, however, an extraordinarily convenient tool for believers to employ whenever their holy book shows God doing what no good God would ever do, even though the book is unambiguous about it being God who did it.
But that's just the old testament. Unless, of course, you're holding back tithes from the apostles in Acts, which is New Testament. (Oh, but it doesn't say God did that. It was Satan -- even though the Bible doesn't say THAT either).
The Bible is filled with examples of God saying he'll do something and then saying He did it. It doesn't say he allowed it to happen or he allowed Satan to do it. It says HE did it. Now, it COULD have said he allowed Satan to do it, very easily. Look at Job. Satan did those things. It says so. Yeah, he got God's permission, but it says that, clearly. There's no ambiguity, and there's no "this is how it works normally."
A figure of speech is supposed to be a statement that is true in essence though not literally true. "It's raining cats and dogs" is a figure of speech. "This car can stop on a dime" is a figure of speech.
A figure of speech is not supposed to be a way for you to get the Bible to say the opposite of what it clearly says just because what it clearly says is inconvenient for your theology. God ordered the execution of a man for picking up sticks on the sabbath. He didn't give man permission to kill the offending sabbath breaker. He gave man an order -- cast those stones!
God didn't allow divorce. He prescribed it. He didn't allow Satan to kill all the firstborn of Egypt. He had it done.
And he DID have a choice. When my kid offends me, I have a choice how to discipline him. You have no idea how many times my discipline has stopped short of killing him because he did his chores between sunset on Friday night and Saturday night!
So here's a thought. Bear with me: Maybe your friend isn't the stubborn one in this equation. Maybe he's not the one being inflexible. Maybe, just maybe, he's given this far more thought than you have.Raf, bingo!!
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On 2/24/2019 at 4:18 PM, Raf said:
i don't suppose you guys are remotely interested in another perspective.
Raf, I am!
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On 3/2/2019 at 11:27 PM, waysider said:
Documentation? We don't need no stinking documentation. It's deductive reasoning. The guy says he was born without a brain. Who would ever make such a claim unless...they were born without a brain. Hence, he must have been born without a brain. See how easy that was?
Way, there is a man who lives here in DC, who was born without a brain, and a heart. Don the Con.
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On 2/11/2019 at 8:38 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
What a total crock of ages.
DWBH, "Crock of ages?!" LMAO!!
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47 minutes ago, ex10 said:
FYI Way employees didn’t pay into Social Security. So there is none for the years wasted working for the so-called “Ministry.”
10, I wonder how many of the former employees regret not paying into SS while working for TWI. I wonder how they are surviving, now that they have hit their 60s', and 70s'.
Belonging
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Rocky, good for you!!! I am so happy for you!!