Hope R.

Kit - On the Main Cafe site is the editorial article "Driven to Suicide". It's not the entire thread, but it's got a few responses. Click here to see it. Folks, don't forget that the main Grease Spot Cafe site is filled with information not found on these forums... Hope R. color>size>face> "Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now" - Stephen Stills

I was there, too. It was the summer of '72. (couldn't have been '73... I was at HQ's that whole summer). I was SEVENTEEN years old! I remember VP told us that he had only shown it to the Corps and if any of us weren't comfortable, we could get up and leave and it would be no problem. I did. So did my friend Carol C. and a few more of us. We were grossed out and freaked out. We saw it again in-rez - our last year I think. That time I HAD to sit through it. I was sitting with Kris C. way in the back of the top floor Wierwille. Someone near us started to sing "and they call it 'puppy love'", and we had one of those laughing fits that you can't stop. That's what I think of when I think of that stupid film. Hey, bookworm, drop me a line. We must know one another. Oldiesman - the other CF&S camp was in Pauling at the YWCA center. That I remember well because it snowed like crazy and my car skidded all the way up there (or maybe it was back). I didn't go to the PFAL camp. Went to CF&S, then Walter came to teach Renewed Mind and Dealing with the Adversary. I was there for those 3 week. We must know each other as well. Sunesis - thank you very much for your post. It must have been very hard for you. Hope R. color>size>face> "Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now" - Stephen Stills

Happy Birthday to a person who knows what, where and how to say something. I'm glad you've stuck around to be one of the sane voices around here. I know we're at odds sometims, but I have a heckuva lot of respect for your opinions and the way you state them and would miss you if you were gone. Hope R. color>size>face>

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CATCUP!!! Hope R. color>size>face> Come back Cat... plu-eeze COME BACK!!

OH MY GAWD!!! THEY'RE GEEKING IN TONGUES!!!! sorry.... I couldn't resist... been waiting for that opening for a long time! Hope R. color>size>face>

Please take pictures and post some of them here! Wish we could be there... it's just a tad too far away Hope R. color>size>face>

I gotta agree with Sudo - nothing personal I've said I was outta here so many times that Paw needs to put a revolving door on the Cafe just for me. I've tried - honest. Even went cold turkey for 5 days. But then I thought of a really good "About The Way" topic and I couldn't stand it. Then, I read something FreshAir posted something I just HAD to respond to... Oh and there was a joke - and a poem... So -I've given up saying I'm leaving. BUT - I have realized I need to take a break every now and then. The truth is - I really do enjoy the cyber-fellowship here - warts and all. So - I'm not leaving - not yet anyway. Hope R. color>size>face>

It's a different Joe, Kathy. Joe and Karen Woods were in the Sickth Corps and in Tampa in the early 80's - then moved to Ithaca, NY. That's the last I heard of them. Hope R. color>size>face>

As of 9:00 p.m. tonight - BeSeen has closed down the chat room. Can't refresh or reload - can't even link to beseen anymore... Wackyfunster had the last word I'm sad - Hope R. color>size>face>

"Prancing in Undies" - is that RFR's native American name like "Dances with Wolves"? Works for me! Hope R. color>size>face>

Good poll - Hey folks - you don't have to show your identity to vote in a poll - you don't have to post or anything! Just make your choice. I'm eager to see the results, too. Thanks excathie Hope R. color>size>face>

Think they're just messing with our heads? Hope R. color>size>face>

And as of 8:30 a.m. EDT - it's still there. I looked for the message that said BeSeen was closing the chat rooms down and couldn't find it on their site. Anyone have a clue as to what's happening. It sure would be nice if it stayed up and running. Hope R. color>size>face>

(I copied all of them you guys...) I will miss the colors and the icons and the /a and the /w Warts and all, ISE storms and room farts - BeSeen was a good set-up... I'm glad we're going to be together on Yahoo - but I sure wish I could lurk! Hope R. color>size>face>

Another suggestion is that perhaps there is a chat room that might have a fee that I know I'd be willing to chip in for or, heck, if it's not too expensive, foot the whole bill. I wouldn't know where to begin to look. If any of you internet savvy folks feel up to searching around for a good room, I'd be willing to pay for it. Until then, I guess the Yahoo chat room is okay by me. Sushi - how could "new" folks join into the chat if it's on AOL IM? Could there be a GS link? Would it be up and running all the time? Who would host it? Inquiring minds want to know... Hope R. color>size>face>

Seth - Please email me. hoperich@tampabay.rr.com. Depression hit me last March like a demolition ball. I'd rather not repeat the sordid details of my journey downward on GS again, but wouldn't mind telling you about it personally. It takes a bit of time, but you can be yourself again. Don't give up. Hope R. color>size>face> Excath - I can relate to "why didn't I get help sooner?" The only reason I can figure is that TWI taught me to figure out everything I could by my "5-senses" first, which is what I tried to do. From now on, I will listen to my own instinct instead of some one-liner I heard 20 years ago. I think about all the sadness I could have avoided....

May all your dreams come true! Hope R. color>size>face>

Kathy - The last 5 years I was in TWI I hated being there. Couldn't WAIT to get out. Prayed and prayed to get out. FINALLY - we were kicked out! I was SO happy, so OVERJOYED, so relieved! But not all the time... Yet the first year I was out, I was still very defensive of TWI (mostly TWI 1 & VPW - NOT LCM). Even though I didn't really like the people in our fellowship, I missed the routine. It had been a part of my entire adult life for 29 years - from 16 to 45. Believe it or not, I was depressed. Sad. Thought something was missing. I started wondering if God would still take care of us. I started wondering if there was a God at all! I mean, where was God when LCM was abusing women and spitting out false, harmful doctrine and hurting multitudes of people's lives? It took me the better part of my first year out to come to grips with the fact that a lot of the things I had been taught were just plain . And it took me a bit long to admit that TWI affected me as much as it really did. After all - I WANTED out for years! I should be happy, I should have been shouting for JOY! I shouldn't have looked back at all! I am still dealing with attitudes of arrogance and legalism and a certain degree of fastidiousness I know I acquired while in TWI all those years. I will probably be working on getting rid of those bad habits for many more to come. Things take time. Worthy things take more time-- like putting together your child's bicycle for Christmas! It's tedious and sometimes frustrating, but the results on Christmas morning make all the assembly time worthwhile! (Yes, you can get someone to assemble it for you, but sometimes there's a LOT of satisfaction in doing it yourself!)size> You have Cliff and the whole GS community to vent to - take advantage of it! Call me or John any time... Love - Hope R. color>size>face> Edited because I had to stop and take kids to school and didn't have time to proof it! size> [This message was edited by Hope R. on August 12, 2002 at 5:29.]

I forgot to tell you firebee - Petty was great - yeah - he played that, and "I Won't Back Down" and a bunch of other old ones - but he also has a new album coming out soon and did a bunch of new songs. As far as the seats go... once Petty came on, everyone on the floor was standing up anyway, so it really didn't matter where we were after all. The people who had those empty seats did show up - seems they were only coming to see Petty and not Jackson Browne. I hadn't thought about the speed limit. I rarely drive the speed limit and haven't gotten a speeding ticket in about 15 years - and that was the only one. So I guess I can selectively break the rules after all! Hope R. color>size>face> Robin - only 2 of the poll questions say "always" or "never"...

...and let's not forget the leaders like LCM and others who insisted that the "rules" apply to everyone... EXCEPT FOR THEM! I was also more of a risk taker in my younger years. Maybe it's because I have kids now that I pretty much stick to the rules of life. I don't want to teach them that certain things are okay to do when they're really not. I will say that TWI definitely influenced me in this area. Especially the last decade. They have become SO anal-retentive when it comes to rules and order and neatness it's postively scary! Hope R. color>size>face>

Ex said: Most of you must know by now that there were bible verses used to justify the MOG's sexual misconduct. Young women were lured into the coach believing they were "blessing the MOG". The verses used were in 1 Kings 1:1-4 But they left out 1:4b - BUT THE KING KNEW HER NOT! And they also used v.15 & 16 to show that even David's WIFE didn't mind it. This was to allieviate the guilt these women felt over betraying Mrs. MOG. There were other verses besides these. An old friend of mine who had this happen to her told me all about it. So it wasn't just practice, it WAS doctrine. Super secret doctrine given only to those who were able to "handle" it (no pun intended). It makes me sick just thinking about it. Yes, the bible was handled deceitfully - and cunningly. And LCM learned it from his master. Hope R. color>size>face>

Not sure where this belongs but I've been thinking about it all day. John and I went to a Jackson Browne/Tom Petty concert last night. Our seats were in the 2nd to last row on the floor (this is in a large indoor hockey stadium). The biggest people I've ever seen were sitting in front of us. It was hard, if not impossible to see the stage without having to stand all night. There were some empty seats with a better view and John suggested we move to them. I didn't want to. Even though I couldn't see - I didn't want to "break the rules" by sitting in someone else's seat. Another example: There's an expressway exit about a mile down the road. There's a traffic light on all the lanes entering, exiting and going past the expressway. At night - the road isn't travelled too much. As a matter of fact, if it's late enough, there's never a car around. When we use the expressway, we have to get off and make a left. Sometimes, a friend of mine who lives in my neighborhood told me she will stop, look, and then run the light if there's not a car in sight. It bothers me. It's not "in the rules". I'd NEVER do it. I'm wondering if being in TWI for a long period of time has had an influence on us following "the rules" that we encounter in our every day lives. I'm wondering if it's okay to sometimes break the rules, as my friend and the red light. No harm was done. There wasn't an accident. No one saw it but her. So the Poll question is: Do you always play "by the rules"? Please post as well Hope R. color>size>face>

Geez... All of this because a bunch of people wanted to see some pics of the CFF thingy.... When the Shroyers were in town, I actually went to a CFF fellowship to see them. That was the only reason I went. I really like John and Mary Lou and wanted to see them. But it was difficult to go to a home fellowship again. I was apprehensive. I was also obstinate. I didn't bring my bible. I went with an attitude that I wasn't going to like it. And I didn't. I, me, myself, Hope, did not like the MEETING part of the fellowship. Why? Because it was too, "Wayish" for me. ~~~~~~~~shiver~~~~~~~~~~~~ But, the people were wonderful. They weren't mean or hateful or demanding. The Shroyers were terrific - as loving and kind as I remember them. After the meeting we talked A LOT about TWI and he shared some of his history with the organization. Nothing that's a secret, it's just not my story to tell. I am happy for those who have found a spiritual refuge in CFF. I am also happy for those who have found a spiritual refuge in a church. But I have to agree with Evan. I don't want to go to any group who is not affiliated with a main stream church, whose minister hasn't gone through the seminary - a REAL one... Once upon a time, there was a need and a purpose for the "home fellowship" stucture, and it worked for a while. It was better when we were young because we weren't necessarily comfortable around our "parents" religion. For the most part, we were kids teaching kids. It was cool, it was fun. I'm a grown up now (some would beg to differ), and I like a nice big congregation and a choir and a band...a minister who is comfortable and knowledgable enough to quote from other Christian sources and authors without mocking them. I like all the church has to offer. It's not at all like I was led to believe - a building that was only occupied on Sunday. Most churches around here (and I'm not familar with many outside of my area) have things going on every night of the week, and much of the day also. I certainly don't want to sit in a circle of chairs looking at the same 6 people three times a week, singing from the same old blue book and repeating the same tired, dull doctrines of an organization that hasn't grown or changed with the needs of its people. CFF? It's great for those who want to go. Is it a cult? IMO, not yet. Right now I think it's a potential cult. I hope I'm wrong. Hope R. color>size>face> edited for speling mistackes [This message was edited by Hope R. on August 07, 2002 at 16:51.]

Oakie - I don't think you left anything out. Damn good job. The only thing I would change is JC is NOT God really started coming to light in the early 70's. IMO, the unique and/or controversial teachings besides "Are the Dead Alive Now" in the 50's were the Pentecostal-type teachings like S.I.T. and the other manifestations. There was also a time between PFAL and WAP that there were NO classes available. Then it took a year of Grad classes before WAP was released to "new" people. I think that had a negative impact on TWI as well. They had nothing to offer. I think people started realizing that even WITH a class, TWI didn't have much to offer to new people. Then, when WAP finally came out, the grads who took it REALLY saw that TWI had NOTHING to offer. Anyway - that's a really super chronology! Hope R. color>size>face>

Due to the high cost of offering this free service, we regret that we will shortly be shutting down BeSeen.com and BeSeen services on August 19th, 2002. -- The BeSeen Team YIKES! I'm not internet handy - but I know I'll go thru withdrawal w/o chat!!! Anyone have any ideas? Paw? What can be done? I'll gladly contribute to a chat room if it costs $ to run one... Hope R. color>size>face>