Hope R.

I have never been a "cat" person. My sister always had them and they drove me nuts. But last spring, I noticed a cat that was hanging around our neighborhood. My youngest daughter wanted to feed her. I refused - if you feed them they will come! But she was really friendly. She had been spade so we figured she was once someone's pet. We asked any of our neighbors if they knew who she belonged to. No one did. So I told my daughter she could feed her - but only outside. She started to live in our bushes and came out whenever we got home, meowing and purring and hungry for food and attention. My daughter named her Annabelle. Around Thanksgiving, we had some friends over and their son was playing with the cat. He was looking her over and said that she'd been de-clawed - and pulled back her toes to show us that indeed, she was defenseless. I promised my daughters that I would take her to the vet after the New Year and get her shots up to date and make sure she didn't have any diseases. I still planned to keep her as an outside cat. The vet told me that a cat that has been de-clawed should really stay indoors, or on a screened porch - somewhere where they won't get hurt. I bought a litter box, a cat bed, toys, a food bowl and we now have a cat. She stays on the lanai and drinks out of the pool (wierd cat!). She comes in and sleeps in my daughter's room at night. We don't let her outside anymore during the day - and I don't think she minds. We keep her litter box on the back patio and she has never missed. She even stands by our sliding door and meows when she wants to go out to use it. I never, ever thought I would like having a cat as a pet, but I really like this one. And you're right, Zix - they're easy - a lot easier than a dog, and much less needy. I don't think I'd have more than one (I don't like the hair), but I'm planning on keeping Annabelle around for the long haul. Hope R. color>size>face> I get by with a little help from my friends... size>

TW - In the beginning of the first law suit, we were told that TWI had some kind of professional or "ministerial" insurance that would pay for any costs incurred during the trial, including a settlement or jury award. They told us that because one of the big objections (at least in our branch) was that our ABS was going to pay for LCM's sexual misconduct. I don't know if that was true or not - but I don't think it was. There was a big discussion about it on Waydale and I think someone who knew some facts said that that kind of insurance doesn't usually cover those kinds of acts. Hope R. color>size>face> I get by with a little help from my friends... size>

LCM used that verse in 2 Corinthians 6 to further isolate TWI's followers from not just non-Christians, but from anyone who left TWI. He turned the last Rock of Ages into a class called "Living Sanctified". One of the sessions emphasized that verse. He also used another verse from that chapter that says "be ye separate". He also taught about "having no aggreement with idols" and talked about how it was INSANE for us to be yoked to people who refuse to believe God's Word. He included those who once stood on The Word of Truth© but who had turned their backs on it. We were confronted more than once about being in contact with our ex-Way friends. John also had (and still has) some terrific ex-Way guys who work for him. That was a problem for our RC/LC as well. One of the reasons listed in the letter we got when we got dropped from the Corps was "Hope keeps in contact with 'copped-out'? leadership". I asked what leader he'd heard I kept in touch with. His answer was that anyone who was former Corps was considered a "copped-out"? leader. I had kept in touch with an old friend who I went to HIGH SCHOOL with - I knew her before we were in TWI or the 6th Corps together. SHE was the person they accused me of communicating with! So silly - she'd left YEARS ago and didn't even let TWI cross her mind too often. Yet that was one of the reasons we were dropped from the Corps. We actually were made to memorize verses that had to do with "have no fellowship with them" and of course "Mark those which cause divisions among you ... and avoid them." Ugh Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

I remember it like it just happened... it was a catharsis for me - an awakening - the scales were finally removed. I have told this story before. I took the Advanced Class in 1995 in Rome City. During one of the sessions, Howard Allen came to share his "heart" about what TWI had done for him. He shared the usual story about being almost dead, getting prayed for, etc. Shared about Uncle Harry and yada yada yada. Then he started talking about the administration at that time. He started saying how wonderful it was now that LCM was president. How he'd cleaned house. How he'd gotten rid of the weakness in TWI. Then he said: "And I'm proud to say that today The Way is no longer and open door ministry!" The crowd went wild! I was stunned. If I had a vehicle there, I would have left that night. When I got home, I vowed that I would get out. I told my husband I would no longer go to any overnight, out-of-town classes. I would only attend fellowships, branch meetings and the Limb Meeting if it wasn't too inconvenient. I told him that when he was ready to leave, I would be right behind him. It took 5 more years, but I am glad I waited for my spouse to feel the same way I did. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

So now we don't need to "start" a room - it's already there! Yee Haw! Thanks Paw.... Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

No one started a new room... the chatters who are there are in The Cafe - and it doesn't work. I started a new room just now. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Let me also quote this section of the article - it really got me wondering if anyone who is still in TWI ever read it. Let's analyze this for a second... here's my literal translation according to usage in the Grease Spot Household... "The assault was a result of a civil conspiracy" - IMO, that means more than ONE person was involved in conspiring to assault the victim. "that The Way" - meaning not just LCM or VPW or any one person - IMO, THE WAY indicates the entire BOT/BOD and other leaders knew about these assaults. "engaged in a pattern" - hmmm, a pattern. That's something that repeats itself over and over again, isn't it? Encarta defines pattern in many ways. Two of the definitions are: "a regular or repetitive form, order, or arrangement; a predictable pattern of behavior" and "regular way of doing something: a regular or standard way of moving or behaving." IMO, the judge believed that this was not a one time occurance. That a regular, standard pattern of behavior had been established for the corruption at TWI's top echelon. "...which included acts of assault and rape..." There it is again - the word RAPE - and this isn't something some poor, little, victimized, ex-way person with an ax to grind said. It's from a JUDGE who has never had a THING to do with TWI. He called it RAPE - and said there was a PATTERN of rape that occurred in TWI along with acts (plural) of assault. I hope I never hear anyone say that the women who were abused by LCM and/or VPW were not raped again. This document is a couple of years old now... and they STILL haven't come out and admitted any of this happened. As far as I know, they STILL haven't apologized to their followers or tried to make amends to those victims who were devastated by TWI's top leadership. IMO, they have to wait for someone to sue... and even then they don't tell their followers the truth. Hope R. color>size>face> [This message was edited by Hope R. on February 08, 2003 at 20:14.]

I've been looking at the old Waydale Documents section on the main Grease Spot Cafe page and read the article TheHighWay mentioned in his previous post. (click here) The paragraph he quoted caught my eye right away - but this also made me raise my eyebrows: Ahem... it's a later date... has anything been released? To whom? Was it in print? An announcement? I certainly don't remember hearing anything about TWI "releasing" any comment regarding that law suit. Can anyone tell me exactly what Mr. Magnelli said at that later date? Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

This came in an email from an old, dear friend... To all you dog-lovers out there... "No animal should ever jump up on the dining-room furniture unless absolutely certain that he can hold his own in the conversation." - Fran Lebowitz "The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue." - Anonymous "Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful." - Ann Landers "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." - Will Rogers "There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." - Ben Williams "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves yu more than he loves himself." - Josh Billings "The average dog is a nicer person than the average person." - Andy Rooney "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." - M.Facklam "Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate." - SigmundFreud "If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons." - James Thurber "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl." - Penny Ward Moser "A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down." - Robert Benchley "I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult."- Rita Rudner "Dogs need to sniff the ground; it's how they keep abreast of current events. The ground is a giant dog newspaper, containing all kinds of late-breaking dog news items, which, if they are especially urgent, are often continued in the next yard." - Dave Barry "Anybody who doesn't know what soap tastes like never washed a dog." - Franklin P. Jones "If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise." - Unknown "My dog is worried about the economy because Alpo is up to $3.00 a can. That's almost $21.00 in dog money." - Joe Weinstein "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx "Ever consider what they must think of us? I mean, here we come back from a grocery store with the most amazing haul -- chicken, pork, half a cow. They must think we're the greatest hunters on earth!" - Anne Tyler "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

I hope ChattyKathy doesn't mind me sharing this... We've always sent Christmas cards to each other for years since they moved away from Tampa. Two Christmases ago, for some reason, I put my email addy in the card I sent to her and her husband - it wasn't something I normally did. I got an email from her and the way she wrote to me, I could tell that she thought we were still in. She had shared about some of her disillusionment with TWI and the whole mortgage nonsense... then said something like: "I hope this doesn't get you stressed or out of fellowship - it wasn't my intention." I was FLOORED! I wrote back to her and told her we'd gotten out a little over a year ago (at that time) and that she was "preaching to the choir". I went on to tell her exactly how I felt about various policies of TWI. I sent her the link to the main page of GS and John's "Letters to Rosalie". I'm not crediting myself for getting her and her hubby out - they would have gone with or without me. I guess what I'm saying is that if you remain a friend to people who are still in, someday they may come to you and ask questions about TWI that they're afraid to ask people who are in with them. Like Wayfer Not said - then you can tell them LOTS! Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Laleo wrote: Laleo - that is so true that my eyes filled with tears when I read it. Even though I knew the things I'd heard from my friends were true - I stayed in denial because it broke my heart to believe them. I know there are lots of other ex-Way folks who were and are in that same place. It's hard to come to grips with but I know when I finally did - it was liberating! Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

I remembered something on Waydale about that song and thought the lyrics might be there, so I "googled" it and found this comment on the Waydale "Corps Notes" section:(click here) Here's an excerpt: Whoever it was that had the Waydale Forums archive, could you give them a look to see if the words were posted there. I remember reading them somewhere - but never heard the song. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

WOW - I agree - I laughed out loud! Mainly because it IS the best reason for not going to witnessing night! (or outreach or whatever they call it now!). Did RFR ever declare it wasn't so? Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

MJ - I think they should start their own cult. :P--> Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

I need a break, too - my brain hurts! I haven't read every post on this 15 page thread so I wonder if the Eagles have been discussed yet? I think they were one of the tightest bands I've ever heard. They were as good, if not better, on-stage than they were in the recording studio. We went to their "Hell Freezes Over" tour a few years back and it was marvelous. A few nights ago I was flipping around the old TV dial and came across "Almost Famous". Lemme tell you - I've seen it a dozen time but it is still one of my all time favorite movies. If you haven't seen it - go rent it. There's so much history in it and memories for people "our" age! (the main character, William Miller, graduated High School the same year I did). I was never a huge Elton John fan. I always admired his talent, but not his style. But because of that movie, "Tiny Dancer" is now one of my favorite songs: ************************************************ But oh how it feels so real Lying here with no one near Only you and you can hear me When I say softly, slowly Hold me closer, Tiny Dancer Count the headlights on the highway. Lay me down on sheets of linen You had a busy day today. Hold me closer, Tiny Dancer Count the headlight on the highwayyyyyy.... Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

WW I'll admit I hadn't thought about the "enablers" angle. But what you said about Rxxxxa Bxxxn made me think about another woman who I learned was a "pimp" for VP in the 70's. She is the one who gave the bible verse reasons out to her recruits in order to convince them they were "doing the word" by "taking care of the man of God" (barf). In Patricia Liberty's article she writes: I think the enablers got tricked into thinking they had power and authority when they picked out the women to be used by the MOGs, and a sense of superiority because they'd done it first (ugh). So in that sense - they were victims and victimizers. But I'm not sure if we can call these women willing participants. I think they may have been victimized as much as those they recruited - I don't know. What do you think? Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

(sorry) Dot - I lost your email addy. Please check your private message box. Thanks... Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Jerry - if anyone doesn't "get it" after your post - they have no eyes to see or ears to hear... thanks. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Norm, OCD, whatever .... Radar is correct in saying that one of the unspoken "rules" we have always had at Waydale and GS is not to use any full names other than the trustees and their spouses. I always refer to the Axxxx's as "the first lawsuit". I don't want them being "googled" by anyone who could use this stuff against them. FYI - P.A. did confront the trustees - right to their faces - before he and his wife got kicked off HQ's grounds. Then lies were told about them to the rest of the staff. The lawsuit came later. Before you post stuff about other people - please get your facts straight. The reason you never heard from HER is because HER husband was gallant enough to protect her from all the comments and speculation regarding the law suit and her victimization. My admiration for him is boundless. I would only hope that you, or any other husband here at GS (including mine!), would have done the same. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

I will confirm what alfakat said - I also know this individual and he hit the nail on the head. Remember - a lot of Corps were taught that anything is okay as long as you don't condemn yourself (from Romans 14:22). I heard that within 2 weeks of going in-rez. There was an attitude of "anything goes" - at least there was when I was in the Corps. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Erick - you said: What is "genuine and godly" and what is "vile and spiritually debased"? IMO, someone who is "vile and spiritually debased" is someone who thinks that the women who were abused by the MOG were chomping at the bits to have sex with a 60+ year old man. Someone who is "genuine and godly" is someone who will tell the truth about their experiences, wear their heart on their sleeve in order to expose the corruption that was and is in TWI. But, my opinion is probably worthless to you - so, in this case, I'd rather quote the bible: Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Let's see... what did I use... I used the headache and sick kids, or one of them had a major math test and I had to stay home to help them study. Hmmmm - Oh - you have plans to witness to a neighbor who you've already invited over... ... the dog is vomiting (that's good about 1/2 hour before you're supposed to show up). Or just don't go! Tell them you forgot, or wrote the wrong date down on your calendar, or didn't write it down at all, or you got home from work late and figured everyone would already be partnered up and out already! That's just a few - I'll put my old thinking-cap on and see what else I can come up with... Deviously yours, Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

WG - I think I answered your question in my earlier post. Did you read what happened to Marsha after she left TWI? EVERYONE who knew her was told she was chock-full-of-devil-spirits! We were told to stay away from her. One thing I forgot to add is that V.F. told me that if she contacted me again, I should call him immediately to tell him what she said. "Why did he get away with it for so long?" Most of the women I knew that were mistreated by VPW told me that they honestly believed that no one would believe them if they told about their experiences. There were men who covered for him - like V.F. and many others. They protected him because they believed he was right in what he was doing - all those bible verses to back him up - he was the MOG. Plus, I'd guess that they wanted a piece of the action as well. As long as VP could justify himself - using the bible as his excuse, then they'd be justified if they did it too. And there was fear! These women knew they'd be kicked out of TWI and branded possessed whores if they said anything. Add to that the fact no one would believe them and higher-ups covered for the MOG - it was a losing battle. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

Ex - That is the best article I have seen, even better than "Why it's Not An Affair" because it is more specific and detailed. Perhaps we could ask Paw to link it on the main page of GS. Watered garden - Although it never happened to me, I had a very close Corps girlfriend who told me about how she was coerced into having sex with VP on her interim year. It's a long story, and she tells it well on John Juedes' site. It's called "Marsha's Story". (click here) After Marsha decided to leave TWI, she came to see me in NJ. I didn't know why she was there, we'd only been out on the field for 5 or 6 months, but she called and asked to come over and talk to me. She then told me what you can read on the link above. After she left, I was shaking, crying, confused, hurt - you name it. I got on my knees and prayed for answers on what to do about what she had told me. (yeah, yeah, I hardly ever kneel when I pray - but that night - I did!). The next day, I called V.F. - who was the World Wide Grand Poobah at the time. I repeated Marsha's story to him, every word I could remember. After I was finished, there was silence on the other end of the line. He then said: "Well, do you believe her?" I told him I didn't know what to believe - that her story had details, times, places, names, that it was hard not to believe. He then told me that "deceiving spirits first have to deceive the person they're in before they can deceive you" and went on to list the multiplicity of devils my friend was possessed with (charming, lying, deceiving, the one that breaks up marriages, etc.). I'm sorry to say that I listened to him. I mean, how could it be true??? VPW was my "father in the Word", the "Man of God" for our day and time!!! At one of the the ROAs after VP died, I don't remember if it was '85 or during the PoP explosion of '86, I heard the story again. This time it was from another woman... and it was about HER, not Marsha. I was stunned. Then, within the group I was with, someone else spoke up and said it happened to them as well! When I asked why no one said anything there were two answers that stood out in my mind: 1. No one would believe them. 2. They believed they were "doing the Word" according to the MOG. Scriptures were used to justify his lechery. I Kings 1:1 - 3, and 15 & 16 when David was old and they put a young virgin in his bed so he could "get heat" and she "ministered" to him. Of course, that was defined with a sexual connotation so these poor women could think they were blessing the MOG. Then they twisted the scripture further and taught that the Shunammite woman of 2 Kings 4 took care of Elisha when he came to visit her - why, she even gave him is own room! And there was more about "highly esteeming" those who are "over you in the Lord"... and other verses I can't think of right now. So you see, there were a many reasons these women wouldn't say anything. The fear of being kicked out of TWI was even greater back then because most of our lives were wrapped up in it's structure - our physical, mental, social, and spiritual lives were dependent on TWI to the point where many could ignore the sin in the camp. There's someone who posts on GS who was with me when these conversations at the Rock took place. I hope this person can remember it, it was a long time ago... Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>

The time I went to Bob was during an AC special in around '96 or '97. It was being taught at the time, so that's what made me bring it up. It had been taught for years. I know it's in a class somewhere - maybe the intermediate, regarding the prophesy in Luke. Hope R. color>size>face> I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>