Nathan_Jr

25 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

While I do credit PFAL for piquing my interest in stuff like systematic theology, philosophy of religion and hermeneutics, it was like taking swimming lessons from some lifeguard wannabe who can’t even tread water but thought the image would make him a chick magnet…wierwille’s PFAL was “the Word” that took the place of the centrality of Christ.

This. 
 

15 hours ago, T-Bone said:

What does “Jesus Christ the Son of God” mean?

 

On page 30 of chapter 2 Who is Jesus Christ?   in the book   Jesus Christ Is Not God ,  wierwille states:

…we note Jesus Christ is directly referred to as the “Son of God” in more than 50 verses in the New Testament; he is called “God” in four. (Never is he called “God the Son.”) By sheer weight of this evidence alone, 50 to 4, the truth should be evident.

So the word of God is reduced to statistical probabilities? This logic is born of in depth spiritual awareness and perception? This is how one "rightly divides the word of truth" -- statistical probability!? This is how one separates truth from error?

Or, are these four verses not in the original? 

Growing up in a Christian household, I was never taught that Jesus was God. It seemed obvious that he was not, based on what Jesus himself said about himself, and It just wasn't an issue. There was NEVER talk about what others believed as "wrong." We didn't proselytize or evangelize. And no one desperately tried to prove a negative. Only humble affirmation of Truth. Again, it just was not an issue anyone desired to create, make or form.

I remember gasping in awe at how immature (spiritually/intellectually/linguistically) the writing of JCING was. I read about half of it before deciding not to waste any more time on such drivel. And I never even believed Jesus to be God! I was embarrassed for victor and for those thinking he was an enlightened glove-fitter.

Thanks, T-Bone. I always appreciate your thoroughness and willingness to endeavor an answer. 
 

32 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

I’m not saying diehard-PFAL-fans won’t get lost – just that diehard-PFAL-fans won’t know they’re lost

This is among the most profoundly prescient sentences I've ever read anywhere about anything. Holy F*cking Sh!t. Damn, T-Bone... just... damn....

15 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Yeah – wierwille’s bull$hit does get confusing – and here you’ve pointed out his typical pseudoscience gibberish – life is in the blood - or is it soul life is breath life? What’s worse than a fundamentalist using the Bible like a technical manual? A con artist who uses the Bible to steal people’s money, time, energy, etc. 

 

T-Bone, will you please point me to the "soul-life" verse in the Bible? I've searched the term in various forms through two different concordance tools with no results. I'm probably just spelling it incorrectly or something simple like that. 

4 hours ago, hiway29 said:

Just for the record...the 7Up ad is not real. There are photoshop artists that can recreate, change, produce things that look authentic...like an old 7 UP ad. More now than ever, don't believe everything you see.  

It’s so important to be able to perceive this. This  awareness leads to knowledge and understanding on a cosmic scale.

Just for the record...What the preacher teaches is not real. There are preacher-teachers that can recreate, change, produce things that look authentic...like a wolf clothed as a sheep. More now than ever, don't believe everything you see, read or hear.

5 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Jesus would have a human body derived from Adam and yet not have soul-life from Adam’s sinful blood…

Soul-life is from blood? Didn't vic "teach" in PFAL that soul-life came from God breathing it into Adam? So, soul-life begins when a baby takes its first breath, not before. This logic provided the cop out vic needed to force those girls to abort his babies. Right?

The babies weren't breathing in the womb, hence, no soul-life = abortion of victor's rape babies were A-OK because a fetus doesn't have a soul-life.

Maybe I'm misremembering. All the bull$hit gets confusing. I'm probably trying to fit the left-handed glove on the right hand.

32 minutes ago, Twinky said:

That quote is sooooo two-faced.  It makes me want to tear my hair out.  Contentious and difficult, bickering, dividing....  Aargh!

And - what???  WTF?? 

May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only-begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be part of the problem and become a part of the answer

Huh??  They got the "bless with such an abundance" all right - they forgot the "become part of the answer."  (What exactly was the question, again?  "Let's not be divisive" or some such?)  In fact, they are not part of the problem - they are the problem.

Right, Twinky!  Huh?!?! is exactly right.

So, it's a blessing of abundance that allows us to be the answer to division? Which division? The one inside or outside the church? And what kind of abundance?

Just piles and piles of odorous excrement.

Yes, T-Bone. Yes.
Oh, the irony of victor's bull$hit. 

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

May God deliver us as the Church from being contentious and difficult, from maligning our brethren, from bickering and quarrelsomeness, from dividing the Body of Christ by our lack of enlightenment.

From the very beginning of PFAL and through virtually every SNT and recorded holding forth, victor maligns the brethren, the Body of Christ. The level varies from subtle, devilish winks of a prosthetic eye, to overt, melodramatic rambling. HOWEVER, it's always, always there - the division pouring forth from and created by victor's unenlightened heart. 
 

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

There is too much division outside the Church; our solidarity is imperative to give us strength to move forward in spite of the opposition.

WTAF does this bull$hit word salad sentence mean? Which is it? What are we talking about here? Division inside the church or outside?   Is the division between Republicans and Democrats the opposition? The outside, arbitrary divisions between Mickey and Donald are what we must move forward with strength against? The racial divide is our opposition? Word salad. victor wrote hundreds, if not thousands, of word salad sentences like this. The unenlightened are easily impressed.

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

May we as members of Christ’s Body become so filled with love that we may be teachable and have our hearts opened to His Holy Word.

Oh, so sinister. Here we go again. Always with the teaching and slavery and defecating in the mouth of God and in the mouths of those seeking Him.. This is NOT what being filled with love means. And it's not a result of being filled with love. BUT, for the cult leader, teachability is critical. 

16 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Is that better? 

Ha! If you're ok with the passive voice, I am, too. Yeah, it was ok as it was - just putting a finer point on a fine point.

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

From the very beginning, The Way International was ALL about judging whether someone else measured up to 
being right."

*is

This is the bruise on the fruit telling you that it's rotten to the core. Do not underestimate this bruise. The one who claims to HAVE the Truth surely is the one who does not.

When defending victor's hubris, Mike said: if one can jump over a barn, is it bragging to say so? No. But who can jump over a barn? No one can. So, what does it say about the one making the claim? Everything you should need to know.

21 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

That is a great point, Chockfull !

In my opinion, wierwille/TWI use Jesus Christ and the trappings of Christianity like window dressing on a store front display. “If any of this looks like something you want, then come on in to our store and take the class!” It’s the old switcheroo…bait and switch.

But the thing is – if items 1, 9, and 10 are true – then   WHY   do I need to take their stupid class??????

 

1.We believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were “given by inspiration of God” [theopneustos, “God-breathed”] (II Timothy 3:16) and perfect as originally given; that the God-breathed Word is of supreme, absolute, and final authority for believing and godliness.

 

9.  We believe in the receiving of the fullness of the holy spirit, the power from on high, and the corresponding nine manifestations of the holy spirit for all born-again believers.

 

10. We believe it is available to receive all that God promises us in His Word according to our believing faith. We believe we are free in Christ Jesus to receive all that he accomplished for us by his substitution.

 

From: The Way org: statement of beliefs

~ ~ ~ ~

If the Old and New Testament are indeed the God-breathed Word…if we’ve received the holy spirit…if we are free in Christ Jesus to receive all that he accomplished – then again, I ask – why in the hell do we need PFAL, WAP, PFAL Today or any of their other stupid classes?!?!?!  

 

Geez, typical sleazy-money-grubbing-sales-reps/cult-leaders trying to sell me $hit I don’t need!  

 

Because, T-Bone, you don't know how (H--O-W). You don't know HOW to defecate in the mouth of God. That's why you need the class! How (H-O-W) can you learn to take a dump in the mouth of God unless you've been taught?

If only you could read it in the original...

12 hours ago, Pete said:

We believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were “given by inspiration of God” [theopneustos, “God-breathed”] (II Timothy 3:16) and perfect as originally given;

What does this mean? We don't have the original autographs. I'm sure this is strategic phrasing. Any thoughts on this hedge?

victor loved to say, "I wish you could read it in the original." HOWEVER he didn't even have an elementary grasp of Greek - the original written language of the New Testament.

12 hours ago, skyrider said:

Until the board of directors address their sins and REPENT..... twi will continue its downward spiral.

There is no way that a regurgitated class is going to be a dominant force in twi's rebuilding.  If that's the only sleight-of-hand trick that they've got.....then twi will fade into obscurity.

How else could it be but a downward spiral fading into obscurity and death? Rebuild what? Rebuild on what? The 1942 promise? The foundation of the entire enterprise from the very beginning is based on lies. All of it.

Let them repent. Let them address their sins. Let them get honest. Then what?

BUT let them WAKE UP to Truth. Let them truly get born again. Let them find out what that means. Only then will they be free to see that there is nothing to rebuild. All that will be left to do is fold.

Until then, blindness, folly, death. 
 

*Thank you for every word you've ever written here, Skyrider.

15 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

I am really taxing my 75 year old memory attempting to recall the names of my branch leaders who died, let alone their bosses, an event that happened over 40 years ago. Neither names presently comes to mind amd probably never will. 

No worries!  It doesn't even matter. Just morbid curiosity. Great suffering and calamity has befallen those leaders who condemned the accidental death of your branch leaders. I was hoping to read the public records and news media chronicles of their demise. 

17 minutes ago, chockfull said:

You = Christ if you have a renewed mind.

What is a renewed mind?  One that is filled with Gods Word.

That is the gist.

In practice it comes to be equivalent with compliance to leadership.  And as such is a foothold for a cult taking over a persons life friends opinions finance politics and career path.

Thanks, Chockfull.

A mind filled with God's Word? Does that mean a mind filled with the Bible? Or does it mean filled with God's will?

So much bull$hit it almost makes sense.

A renewed mind is not one conformed to any doctrine, any book, any teacher - this is an enslaved mind. A renewed mind is one that is free and clear. Like a child's mind. Free to be in awe of the wonder of that which cannot be named.  

12 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Has it occurred to anyone that the expression at issue on this thread may have been meant as nothing more than a figure of speech? IDK, but it seems plausible.

Ok. Fine. Let it be a figure of speech. Still, what does it mean?

19 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

However, after my branch leader and his wife died in a horrific car accident, and no leader had any intentions of raising them from the dead, but condemned them for missing the revelation God was attempting to give them to avoid the accident, my faith went South.

What a horror story! Abject wickedness.

The leaders who condemned the your branch leader? Do you remember their names? Where they live?

On 8/8/2022 at 4:33 PM, Mark Sanguinetti said:

OldSkool, that is simply one of the doctrines that TWI taught,  "that by our minds renewed to God's word we take the place of the absent Christ". I wonder if they still taught that from 1996 to 2008? Do other people remember that TWI doctrine?

I realize this is a false, serpentine doctrine, but what does it mean? 

59 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Well, judging from my experiences at HQ and from reporting to the directors for a couple years, I would say the word of God is whatever the way international says it is. My 2 cents anyways.

That sounds about right. Not matter the size and shape of he hand, they can MAKE it fit the glove.

if the word of God is the will of God, I'm going with the will. The will of God takes the place of the absent Christ. This is what victor meant in the original.... I think.

So much bull$hit, it's hard to know for sure.

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

Im pulliing my logic from 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

Whatever form or function Jesus Christ currently has he is not in a flesh and bones body on the earth. In that sense - yes - he is absent. As the head of the Church and God's right hand man he has never been absent, even though Wierwille wanted him to be.

I understand Im walking a tightrope here and don't wanna get into doctrinal issues here. And of course I posted this here because I am only interested in the origin of the word of God takes the place of the absent Christ. I have never heard that anywhere but TWI.

Perfect. Thanks. I agree. Vic's doctrines were goofy non-sequiturs, including this one. 

So, according to victor, the word of God replaces the carnal, fleshly Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, who is obviously absent in the five senses realm. What do you think he meant by "the word of God?"

30 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Absent is synanomous with missing. The Word of God takes the place of the missing Christ....yeah...thats in the book of Hezekiah. Im not being a smart alec to you cman. It's the most un-Christian --- "Christian" doctrine I think I've hears....welll....maybe next to all the women in the kingdom belong to the king.

Christ is "absent" because his function, purpose, and ministries changed after the ascenscion. That makes him no less asccesible, if anything, more so now that he is seated at God's right hand, is the savior for mankind, head of the Church, second in command to God, etc.. 

Cman is asking why is there a return if he's NOT absent. Regardless of his function, he is NOT absent, right? Or is he absent because of his function?

Maybe these questions were answered and I missed it. Could you explain? Pretend I'm a golden retriever. 

12 hours ago, Rocky said:

I offered up this thread not because I needed (or wanted) to know anything about anyone at GSC, but as food for thought.

Right. I got that from the beginning. The food just brought me to the thought that labels are a product of our conditioning. Labels are insufficient and usually problematic, divisive and destructive for the labeler and the labeled. Whether we realize it or not, labels are constructed out of laziness, immaturity and a lack of clear thinking, intellectually and spiritually. Can we see this about ourselves?

One can not see what actually, truly is as long as one is artificially labeling. And one can never come upon that which is eternal, that which has no name, if one is always seeking to label according to one's conditioning, programming, indoctrination.

This was true in Bronze Age Palestine and it's true today.

20 minutes ago, modcat5 said:

Raf here.

Not long ago I decided to abandon the "agnostic atheist" label because it caused more arguments than it resolved.

Here's how I answer now: YOUR god is a fictional character whose non-existence is his ONLY redeeming quality. When it comes to YOUR god, I am an atheist with the certainty of a typist hitting the A key and expecting the letter A to show up on the page. 

I can't speak about any other hypothetical gods, but they are irrelevant anyway because you only care if I believe in YOUR God. I don't. He's made up.

Bart Ehrman used to identify as "agnostic atheist."

Agnostic is a term I can get behind, but not as a label. I've said here before that I know next to nothing and embracing this not knowing leads to a healthier life experience. Either I know or I don't, and I am open to following to following the evidence, wherever it might lead.

Atheist, theist, agnostic... Whatever the label, it tells one little to nothing. I'm not sure these labels are helpful at all when one is trying to find out about another. 

The term is loaded and elusive and arbitrary, as the BT video points out. I don't identify as atheist, nor do I identify as theist.

I generally like what Sam Harris has to say about atheism. 

If something is absent, it's not here, it's not present.

God in Christ in you? How can Christ be in you if Christ is absent? Are you absent? Where is the power if it is absent?

And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ? The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible? What a disappointing substitute!

This is one of many, many examples of victor defecating in his own hand and then throwing that feces in the face of God.