Nathan_Jr

8 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Any system can be corrupted.  Religion occurs so frequently I don't see as something inidivuals dream up on their own.  I don't think most occur out of intend to harm but are organically developed.

Obviously, any system can be corrupted. Isn't religion made up and developed as an attempt to explain the unexplainable. It isn't intended to harm, but it often does in spite of itself. This entire site is witness to that. Victor and his minion harmed many in the name of God. The harm and destruction persist today far from New Knoxville one family at a time.

The doctrines of original sin and vicarious redemption were systematically developed over time. Human child sacrifice is one of the oldest, longest running religious practices, older than developed systematic Christian theology. Who came up with these ideas? Who invented them? God or man?

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

Not that you can't figure it out, or Bolshevik, or even Stayed too Long...

On the off chance that people come here and actually wonder...

Those are actually cultural expressions meant to blunt the pain of losing someone to death. Narratives when rational explanations provide no comfort.

You knew that, right? 

 

Yes. I do. Wow. I didn't mean to come off as insensitive, but I see that's what it looks like. Or that's what it is. Though, that's not who I am. "Religion make otherwise good people do and say wicked things." So can resentment and anger.
 

This site is about a religious cult  I was making a point about religion and theology and also parodying victor. Claiming to know what God wants, or that God wants, is a way cults and charlatans have manipulated earnest seekers of God for thousands of years. There are better threads to make that point  

I'm afraid if I wait until the end of the class, I'll be too tired, and when I get tired, I stop believing, and we all know what will happen then - I'll just stop being alive, kinda like the dead. You know, not living, because of fatigue related unbelief.

What fun! Though, my brain is slightly bruised now.

I remember this episode. It's a lot of fun listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson, and he himself agrees. He's a good teacher, and I'm sure he agrees with that, too.

Does any of this affect victor's dating of Jesus' birth or death?

You mean petal, right, Stayed?

To which god, I wonder, did this obit refer?

What could God possibly need or want? What is God lacking?

I thought the dead were not alive anymore because they were too weary to believe. I wonder if that child just got too tired and stopped believing. Isn't this how vic would cop it out? Of course, he is the authority. And the proof is in the engraving.

9 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

But a bottom up view . . . I think narratives have a little more utility than as a toy.

This, it seems to me, can be a healthy way to view narrative. It requires awareness and attention not to get caught in the net of narrative. Yet narrative is everywhere. For example, I've read The NY Times AND The Wall Street Journal every day for over twenty years. It's fascinating to see the same story framed through diametrically opposed narratives. I listen to both spiritually-minded and atheistic podcasts. Toys, indeed. And both narratives are designed to persuade one to BELIEVE they alone have the truth. 

14 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I think the crafting, while possible, are only a part of the um, story.

There are always forces outside of consciousness.  We are not blank slates.  Our curiosity is not chosen. 

I see narratives as generally naturally occurring.   

Tribes 100,000 years ago likely had narratives.  It's just survival.

What else bonds a group of self aware entities?  What guides the internal world of beings with numerous competing passions?  A narrative is order.

"Narratives operate at three levels in parallel: the individual, the institution and the social unit. By understanding this and crafting narratives that operate at all three levels, it is possible to amplify impact." - From the Tweet about Hagel's presentation.

Sure, tribes have had stories and narratives for 100,000 years in an effort to explain  the unexplainable, to offer meaning, to entertain, to persuade....

Narrative can certainly bring order. The Taliban achieve bonding and order through its narrative. That is one of the results of narrative. One of the main purposes of narrative, according to this article, is persuasion.

17 hours ago, Rocky said:

Well, it's ALL a story or a bunch of stories. Humanity is all about stories.

This is important to understand. Joseph Campbell is an excellent pointer for this idea.

2 hours ago, Rocky said:

Stories vs Narratives indeed they are related but not identical.

In his presentation, Hagel notes the power of stories for engaging audiences, but says they have limited power because of their closed-ended nature. They have a beginning, middle and end. Once a story resolves, it is more or less over. It is also more about the people in the story than about the listener. It can be retold and serve as an example, but beyond that there is limited opportunity for members of an audience to engage it.

Narratives are different, Hagel says, for two reasons. First, they are open-ended—they do not have a resolution. Second, they have an implicit “invitation to participate,” which allows listeners to play a role in what the outcome is going to be. “There is something that is in the process of unfolding. The end is yet to be determined. And…there is an invitation for all of us to participate in that narrative, to help determine what the outcome is going to be,” he says.

Hagel goes on to say that narratives operate at personal, institutional, and social levels. Examples of social narratives he gives are Christianity and the American narrative, which motivate “incredible action” over time.

Thanks, Rocky. Your contributions are always meaningful and contemplative, at least for me. This is all so important so understand. 

It seems to me awareness that narratives are crafted to develop meaning is important. One might (ought to) ask: Whose narrative? Is there an agenda? What images of ourselves and others must we create to accept or advance a narrative? Why are we creating these images? Do we have freedom of mind to look at ourselves and to see that we are conditioned, programmed, indoctrinated?

Narrative can be a useful device. It can also manufacture and advance error. Can we first just observe before BELIEVING?

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Or as Loy would call them, "the remnant." 

Remnant? Really? I understand it has a religious usage, but is the connotation positive or negative for Loy?

Lees is a possible synonym. If you know anything about fermentation and wine making, the lees are a sediment comprised almost entirely of spent (dead) yeast cells.

Also, residue.

1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

Gnostic gnomes know that they know, in short and to the point.

Victor was no authority.  He sold Power.  It is a great principle.

It seems to me he sold lies to bolster his power. A distinction. BELIEF in the lies legitimized the power, resulting in a counterfeit authority. To your point, belief is the currency.

And the accusative case when crossing out just won't do. 

32 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The example used here is Victor.  Victim won't question Victor because quoting Victor gives Victim victories in the context Victor's fantasy world.  There's a mutual benefit there.  The currency here, is yes, believing.  

 

Alliteration. The secret code to the collaterals. It's a figure. 

Works FOR Deadpool? That preposition is more accurately translated AGAINST. Hey, I didn't write the book, but I will change it if it fits my man made...what? (Bracelet!) Bracelet. That's right. I'll change it to fit my man made bracelet.

2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Fowl language.  The fourth wall being no hedge of protection.

Is that where we administer fourth aid? Behind the fourth wall?

4 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Sounds like this was a clear case of imprinting.  A genetive case on the mind.

 

As a shepherd, I must lovingly correct you with this spoon. It was a VOCATIVE case.

29 minutes ago, waysider said:

There is a place in PFAL where Wierwille intends to say "It just sits there like a diamond", but, for whatever reason, says "It just sits there like a duck." Now, some have argued that it only sounds that way, but I have personally listened to it many, many (too many) times  and to me it sounds for all the world like he says "duck". In fact, it sounds so much like duck, we used to create minor distractions at that point in the session so it wouldn't be noticed by the class participants.

Hilarious! I vaguely remember this. It may be that I previously read this story here. I only endured the "class" once (enough, plenty), but I remember many, MANY careless and willfully stupid errors like this. Maybe that's why Mike wants to get back to the ORIGINAL written PFAL and collaterals.

So, I took him up on it and started reading The Word's Way, or something like that, and I couldn't get past the first three pages for all the errors and doctrinal stupidity.

At the end of the day, you've just got to cross out what you don't understand or what you can't MAKE fit.

2 hours ago, waysider said:

Isn't that tremendous!

It just sits there like a duck.

It always amazes me how 85% of Christians just miss the duck. I mean they just miss it. Because it's right there! The duck just SITS there. Now, I hope you know sits is a verb. The verb sits is not how Llamsa handles it. How does Bullinger handle it? (Sits) Sits, huh? Well, Bullinger wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. How does Babe Ruth handle it? (Sits) Sits for the Babe, too, huh? Well... shoot.... I had it here somewhere.... Ah! There it is! Now, I'm going to show you how to handle this great truth of God's matchless word: Cross it out! Just cross out the word sits. It won't fit in this bloody glove. And when it won't fit, what do we do? (Cross it out!) That's right. Cross it out. 

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

While we always want to go back to the original intent, we're always learning and growing.  So even when we're wrong, we're right, it's a walk, not a crawl, we're not giving the runaround in these two ways about it.

That's why there's pFALT.  That's Power to a fault, because want more logs on those babbling tongues of fire.  Those snowballs don't stand a chance now, rice?

Rice is for feeding your face. Your face feeds your stomach. And your stomach feeds your walk. Now rice can only communicate with gravy. It can't communicate with your walk. Your walk is by believing. And when I say believing, I hope you know I mean living or dying. Cause when you just get tired and I mean tired like Daddy. Daddy gets tired of playing with his kids, because of that box they put him in. When you get tired because your power is depleted, you just stop believing, then you die. Because the living are dead, not because of, what? (Rice!) Not because of rice, but because of, what? (Gravy!) Gravy. That's right. The living are dead because of gravy. Bless your little hearts.

30 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

 

This was handled in THE CLASS.

The original class or PFALT?

Isn't that just wonderful how I kept it on topic and relevant. That's keeping in congruence. Old Abraham couldn't have done it. No, sir! It wasn't available in Bible times, see? All Abraham could hope for was a snowball fight with Pete.

Now I want you to take your eyeballs out... oh, Ha, Ha, Ha... try that again, ok, take your BIBLES out. That's right. Now we're cookin with rice!

4 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

ah, but the dead know not any-thing, or 2.  It's the cycle of logic.  We could Work the Word, we would if we could.  Or believe and deceive, that we might thieve with a sieve.  There are no holes in these bowls, of mercy.  So wing this thing like gloves on a duck and save them from the muck and the mire before they expire.  

How are you going to put that duck out when it's a cat? You just have to name that cat a duck. Give it a name, then utter that name. That's how (H-O-W) you do it. 85% of all Christians just get it wrong. I know I read it some where. It's like the kingdom, see? The king is the head of the dom. You can't have a dom without a king. That's just stupid! Where does it say in my Bible that your doms are democracies? Nowhere, that's where.

Whats the difference between a duck?

47 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Stopping believing assumes one started believing.  That's how the Emperor dressed.

'Ol vic, bless his little carnal heart, said you can't go beyond what you believe. Like you can't go beyond what you've been taught. Now, both of these pithy maxims are logically false. Intellectually false and spiritually false. The maxims are counterfeit. Spoken by a counterfeit.

But let's give the charlatan's logic a fair shake. If you know that you know that you know, you've already gone beyond believing. So you are knowing instead of believing. Well, you're already dead. Doesn't matter if those gloves are fire engine red, when you're dead, you're just not alive anymore. 

3 minutes ago, waysider said:

You die because you stop believing?

I'm pretty sure when an M777 howitzer comes to tell you a bedtime story, the lights are gonna go out whether you believe it or not.

You're "pretty" sure? That's five senses realm. Get you self a silver bracelet engraved with "man of god," then you'll know that you know. Anyway, I'm pretty sure  the word "pretty" doesn't appear anywhere in my Bible. You can't make this stuff up, kids. It's like a red chicken on a tin roof with five cats. 

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

 

Well we've gone into being dead.  You are born when you start believing?  This glove is missing a finger.  The other has a few extra.  They know that they know that they don't know what the other is doing.

Pretty sure none of use believed a thing to get here.  Don't even have to know what believing in all its vaguery means.  Don't have to know that you know that you don't know.  You just are. 

But now that you are, now what? 

 

The word "are" is the vocative case of the word "cat." See how they have the "a" in common? That's how you know. Whenever I see a cat, well, I don't see it too well, you know, because of the wedge. That's right!

People, class, you've just got to put down this idea that you can have freedom of mind and just start believing. Believing is like filling your mind with the contents of this colostomy bag. That's the H-O-W. How can you program your mind if it's free?Well you just can't.

I could ask you how will you throw the dog out of the house while wearing cat skin gloves? See? Isn't that tremendous!

if it's not true, just make it up. It's systematic religious theology! It must be made up by definition. Now, "definition" is from the ancient Nordic languages... you just can't learn this stuff from an honest teacher, but I'll teach you. If you can't do it the right way, try it my way. That's riiight!

9 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Raf: "Nobody dies when they quit believing, they die when they quit BREATHING."

Again, I must ask Mike: who, Who, WHO (see? most skip right over that 'who') is manufacturing these wicked errors? Raf or victor?

Class, these are rhetorical questions. The word rhetorical comes from rhe and torical. The torical is a type of rhe and it just fits, once you put it all together, it just fits in a place I can't remember, but I know I heard about it somewhere. See, it's like that Jew bastard Jesus, you don't need to love him or what he did or even pay attention to his teachings, no, no, no, you just believe all that. How can you program your minds beyond what you've been taught.

This one is more than just bull$hit, it's a sinister lie designed to manipulate and steal. It's how he "rightly divides" Acts 4:33-35

(Did TWI ever help anyone start a business?)

"And that is the early church and that is a fantastic truth. This is the will of the Lord and this is how the early church was to operate, when we get back to this principle God will bless the church; If we don't get back you can't expect God's blessings. Where is it in the Word of God that I as a believer have to go to a secular bank to borrow money to open a thing that I want to do? The Christian Church was designed that there was money in the coffer just in case John wants to start in business. The church starts him in business. Now when John makes money then naturally what does he do? He brings the minimum of his tithe. That is the first thing. He never touches his tithe. Let's say he makes a half million, he dumps most of it right back into the church. That is how the early church was built."
-AC 1971

People, I'm just quoting what the man said. Either he's telling the truth or..... ummm...

....well, if it won't fit, ya just MAKE it fit, like OJ's bloody glove.

In case (genitive) that doesn't just ring your bell, try making room in your colostomy bag for this direct quote:

"Nobody dies until they quit believing. And everybody quits believing, 'cause ya get tired of the fight."