Nathan_Jr
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Posts posted by Nathan_Jr
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9 hours ago, modcat5 said:
I have a purpose for everything I say, why I say it, how come I say it, for what reason I say it, my motive in saying it and what I want to accomplish by saying it.
But do you have a purpose for everything you listen to?
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5 hours ago, modcat5 said:
We are not together. We hardly see each other.
And we are most certainly distinctly independent.
We're down to two active moderators [modgellan and myself]. I am Raf. I know it's confusing, but whether I post as Raf or modcat5 now depends almost ENTIRELY on which device I'm using. If it's Raf, I'm using my laptop. If it's Modcat5, I'm using my phone.
Modgellan is safely anonymous.
Pawtucket still runs the show and pays the bills and can run us out of town on a whim.
GreasyTech, who has mod authority, is always on call to fix things up when the site goes down.
So that makes 4 of us.
Modgellan and I do not have a system. We check on reports when we check on them; whoever logs in first. He moved this thread. I just saw it. Excellent, thoughtful work by everyone.
Thanks, Raf. For everything.
it's not confusing at all. It's not three like the trinity, but four like the crucified.
I get it. It fits. Like a hand in a glove.
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9 hours ago, Rocky said:
Along the lines of serving as a role model being a better way to look at parental authority, today's post from Daily Stoic is particularly salient. It also occurs to me that instructing (commanding/enabling) people who are not up to the charge to exercise authority over their children is, doctrinally speaking, a grave injustice to the children AND subtly evil and when one recognizes it, brazenly false doctrine.
In that, as Marcus writes in Book 1 of Meditations, the gods gave him Antoninus as “a ruler and a father.”
The ancient world was a brutal, violent place. The entire history of emperors and kings was basically an endless parade of heirs getting rid of other potential heirs.
Despite this precedent, despite being given the unenviable job of preparing a boy to replace him, Antoninus broke the mold and facilitated one of the greatest mentor relationships in history. More than not assassinating his rival, Antoninus committed fully to shaping and guiding the young boy, Marcus Aurelius, towards a kind of greatness that stretches beyond the imagination. More than being a stepfather, he became the boy’s true father, loving and raising him like a son.
What exactly did Antoninus teach Marcus? In Marcus’s own words in Meditations, he learned the importance of:
- Compassion
- Hard work
- Persistence
- Altruism
- Humility
- Self-reliance
- Cheerfulness
- Constancy to friends.
Marcus said he also learned how to keep an open mind and listen to anyone who could contribute, how to take responsibility and blame, and how to put other people at ease. He learned how to yield the floor to experts and use their advice, how to respect tradition, how to keep a good schedule, and never get worked up. Antoninus taught Marcus how to be indifferent to superficial honors and to treat people as they deserved to be treated.
It’s quite a list, isn’t it? Better still that the lessons were, as we recently talked about, embodied in Antoninus’s actions. There is no better way to learn than from a role model. There is nothing luckier than getting to be in constant company with someone we would most like to be one day. And as any parent knows, there is no better gift than the opportunity to be for our children what Antoninus was for Marcus.
Love Marcus Aurelius. Thanks for this. Role models are so important.
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10 hours ago, Rocky said:
Both of Foo's parents abandoned her when she was a teenager, after years of physical and verbal abuse and neglect. She thought she'd moved on, but her new diagnosis illuminated the way her past continued to threaten her health, relationships, and career. She found limited resources to help her, so Foo set out to heal herself, and to map her experiences onto the scarce literature about C-PTSD.
In this deeply personal and thoroughly researched account, Foo interviews scientists and psychologists and tries a variety of innovative therapies. She returns to her hometown of San Jose, California, to investigate the effects of immigrant trauma on the community, and she uncovers family secrets in the country of her birth, Malaysia, to learn how trauma can be inherited through generations. Ultimately, she discovers that you don't move on from trauma--but you can learn to move with it.-----
One reviewer wrote:
In What My Bones Know, accomplished journalist Stephanie Foo writes about receiving a diagnosis of complex posttraumatic stress disorder and the steps she took to heal herself. One of the elements of this book I enjoyed right from the start includes how Foo writes about her trauma with such realness and vulnerability. The physical and emotional abuse her parents put her through felt painful to read though also cathartic as a fellow survivor of child abuse. In addition to destigmatizing child abuse and PTSD, Foo shed lights on her estrangement from her father that occurred later in her life. I imagine this book will feel comforting for folks who have also experienced difficult family dynamics, as Foo does not hold back about her pain even as she persists in her path forward to healing.-----
Obviously this brings up blatant parallels between the OP from TWI's website and perhaps from Bolshevik's life experience.It is clear to me now, more than 35 years after I left twi and having raised a child who thankfully is a well-functioning adult, that twi's DOCTRINE is f**ked up.
You recommend good books. This one has been added to my list.
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21 hours ago, Rocky said:
Goodreads dot com sends me an email every day with updates on what my friends are reading or have read. This morning, I first became aware of the difference between PTSD and Complex PTSD because one friend had read and rated (five stars) What My Bones Know: A Memoir.
PTSD vs. Complex PTSD
Both PTSD and C-PTSD result from the experience of something deeply traumatic and can cause flashbacks, nightmares, and insomnia. Both conditions can also make you feel intensely afraid and unsafe even though the danger has passed. However, despite these similarities, there are characteristics that differentiate C-PTSD from PTSD according to some experts.
The main difference between the two disorders is the frequency of the trauma. While PTSD is caused by a single traumatic event, C-PTSD is caused by long-lasting trauma that continues or repeats for months, even years (commonly referred to as "complex trauma").1
Unlike PTSD, which can develop regardless of what age you are when the trauma occurred, C-PTSD is typically the result of childhood trauma.
When it comes to Complex PTSD, the harmful effects of oppression and racism can add layers to complex trauma experienced by individuals. This is further compounded if the justice system is involved.2
The psychological and developmental impacts of complex trauma early in life are often more severe than a single traumatic experience—so different, in fact, that many experts believe that the PTSD diagnostic criteria don't adequately describe the wide-ranging, long-lasting consequences of C-PTSD.
Thank you for this, Rocky. This issue is seldom understood and often is frequently stigmatized.
C-PTSD is very real. So much is still being learned about the insidious effects of sustained abuse and neglect. Narcissistic abuse can cause C-PTSD, not only in children, but in adults. The effects can manifest physically in the form of auto-immune disorders and brain damage, in addition to severe anxiety and depression. The destruction to the psyche, spirit and body is in incomprehensible to most. -
2 hours ago, Rocky said:
Well, except the children one has the sacred responsibility to raise.
Yes, indeed. We are on the same page. Teaching by LIVING righteousness and love and freedom. Yes, great point.
Some people only behave well when people are watching. They want to project an image of righteousness. Image over substance. I was pointing to victor's response to Loy in the AC Q&A about behavior behind closed doors - behavior unseen by those one is trying to lead.
Do the right thing, even when no one is watching. There's a more eloquent phrasing of this, but I can't remember the attribution.
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2 hours ago, Rocky said:
by setting a powerful example of what it is and what it takes to love one another.
Even if no one is watching.
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53 minutes ago, WordWolf said:
At least 2 humans- you forgot the convicted criminal on Death Row did it, also.
Right. I did forget. I should have renewed my mind. At least two.... criminals....
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2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:
The parable of the prodigal son bothered me for a long time. He definitely enjoyed while he could. The he couldn't and it turned out fine.
And he never got tired. At least not so tired that he stopped believing and died.
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5 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:
A lot of Hebrew names end in El. God Cain-do what he is Abel.
Ooooh... ok. A++
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The title of this thread is not only true, but it is pants-....ing hilarious to me. It could be the title of a skit from Mr. Show, The State, Kids in the Hall, K&P.... or the title of an article in The Onion.
I mean who in the actual f#ck actually plagiarizes poetry?! At least one human actually did! Wow. Just, wow. Sad and funny.
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17 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:
Teach? Teach? Teaching by repetitive rubbing. A cyclic drubbing of a bait and switch to supply and demean. An economy ego inflated through quantitative teasing. A mathematical precision of terrible de-cision.
I'll give you an A for this. But I beleeeve El will give you an A+. Mmmmph.
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5 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
I tend to think if you can't understand it or it's too big and mysterious to comprehend, you can't control it. VPW, aware or not, needed something simpler.
Others have repeated The Word (VPW) takes the place of the absent Christ.
I remember being shocked in my mid twenties learning that the Christians think they have some sort of "relationship" with Jesus. I think there's a reason VPW put the Jesus archetype into retirement at the right hand of God
Others have said VPW needed to attack the Trinity to distinguish himself and draw battle lines. I think he also needed to position himself as the center of attention, and a Trinity makes it more difficult.
The mysterious and incomprehensible as uncontrollable. Mmmmph! Victor needed to MAKE it simpler to fit his shallow awareness and perception so he could then TEACH it. Hands in gloves. Mmmmph.
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24 minutes ago, oldiesman said:
I believe the Trinity doctrine is a paradox. As VPW once said "nobody can explain the Trinity, you have to accept it by faith." Isn't that the truth? I do not believe (as I once believed) that the Trinity is "idolatry" as the way taught. Jesus is Lord.
VPW said that? "Accept it by faith?" The faith OF Jesus Christ? Surely not by the faith IN Jesus Christ? Because faith is something we have; beleeeving is what we do. Or, did he mean believing faith? Or, by operating the manifestation of faith?
Whatever victor said, it's definitely NOT God-breathed scripture, because it's not interpreting itself.
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15 hours ago, johniam said:
He mixes just enough truth to feign plausibility, but, all the while his intention is to deceive.
He did a 180. He looks fickle.
He now has what amounts to an unpardonable death sentence, and he KNOWS it. He also knows that one day in the future (still future) one of his people will rise up to great power and authority over all the earth. Most Christians call this person 'the antichrist'. Technically, the bible doesn't ever call him 'the' antichrist; the bible says there are many antichrists and this person will just be one of the many. However, the bible Does call him the "man of sin". He is also called the "son of perdition".
All those idiots and fools will believe him, in small part because of the 'lying signs and wonders' he will do,
No Christian should want anything to do with supporting something like that.
I don't have a theological dog in this fight.
But it's worth it to me to tell you that much of what you wrote describes a man I know who died from unbelief brought on by fatigue. This man was fond of sterling silver bracelets engraved with phony credentials. He and Bill Cosby had much in common.
Anyway.... small world.....
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1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:
Every religion teaches parents to instruct their children in their beliefs. Why? So the children will continue their belief’s in the future.
TWI is not the only religion who instructs parents to teach their doctrine to their cildren. If you go to a Catholic church they do not finish their teaching, and then say, “oh by the way, here is a 30 minute dialog about what the Baptist believe, and the Morman’s think this way, and the Methodist’s go this direction.” “Next week we’ll have a round robin and have the Quackers, Churrch of Christ, Seventh Day Adventists, and Church of Satan tells us what they believe.”
TWI has it’s problems, but you make it sound like if TWI was gone, the problems of the world would be solved.
Not sure if every religion instructs their children in the same way destructive cults like TWI do, but every cult certainly does rub in by repetition in some form.
Is that what I made it sound like or is that what you wanted to hear? I want to be clear, so, please know: I am an equal opportunity critic when it comes to ideology like religious dogmatism. I don't discriminate. But abusive cults like TWI have earned my extra special criticism and disdain.
*Stayed -- I just realized your post was a response to Bolshevik, not to me. But I'm still ok with this post - what it means, says, in the context, etc. Which is to say, I hope my post will interpret itself like scripture.*
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5 minutes ago, T-Bone said:
nope - I'm not a moderator - more like a least common denominator
Is there a trinity of moderators? Do they work together as one? Or are they pros - distinctly separate, yet not the same?
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6 minutes ago, T-Bone said:
I can't - that's a moderator's job
1 minute ago, Rocky said:Did you report the post/thread so a moderator will consider doing so?
I did earlier today.
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2 minutes ago, T-Bone said:
I can't - that's a moderator's job
Thanks. For some reason I beleeeved you were one of the mods - another problem with beleef. I sent them an email about it hours ago.
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28 minutes ago, T-Bone said:
This thread belongs in doctrinal forum.
Agreed. Can you move it there, T-Bone?
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2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
Yes, repeating yourself is part of being a parent.
No, this is not misunderstood. This about obedience to The Word. The slides are very clear on that. And The Word means The Way International.
Nowhere is their room for change between generations. This is about arresting development, inhibiting growth, for the purpose of control. The parent and child are not family. The cult is family.
Thanks Bolshevik. Well said. The usage is determined by the context of the propaganda.
Reminding one's child of appropriate behavior like cleaning their room or using good manners is not what I'm pointing to, nor is it what the text of the slide is talking about. I have to remind my son all the time, repetitively, not to beleeeve everything he sees or hears. I'm not forcing Soma down his throat by reminding him of this.
To dull a sharp object one must rub it with pressure repetitively. The propaganda here is about the dulling of one's sensitivity, perception, awareness, critical thinking, ability to learn, ability to love. It's about memory by rote. It's about programming children to be zombies of the cult.
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59 minutes ago, WordWolf said:
I've heard he did that with "The Touch of the Master's Hand." Was that the poem you were thinking of in this case?
It could have been, but I just don't remember now. The notes and photos are in a phone I no longer possess. There is a channel on YouTube that has hundreds of recordings of Vic's sermons. Some record this exact thing we're talking about - reciting poetry without attribution or credit. (Anyone can find out for themselves, if they don't BELEEEVE this discussion.)
What I do remember is being so disturbed by what was going on in that moment. When the tape of vic's holding forth ended, I announced the name of the author to the fellowship, hoping someone else might have been as curious as I. But, no. I felt nothing but the stinging darts of silent contempt and disdain, presumably for outing vpw, but more likely for not having a dull mind, the type of mind that results from allowing "rubbing in by repetition."
The fellowship I attended was comprised entirely of my ex wife's family. Their leader (their "father in the word") and his wife went Corps in the late '70s or early 80s. They were family corps around 85-86, I think. They cling to victor and his writings even more fervently than Mike - they would NEVER read or study any other version of the Bible than the KJV. And they would say, "What does it matter? You heard the Word and Will of God today. Be thankful."
They worked diligently to renew my mind for me by rubbing into it repeatedly that there is only one true cosmological/spiritual hierarchical order:
God
Jesus Christ
Paul
Victor
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18 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:
Scripture interprets itself, so a child's understanding of when their believing is off shouldn't need to be repeated, unless it is.
It's important to remember that off believing is an early sign of stopped believing. Stopped believing, or dying, is caused by fatigue, obviously. Rubbing children can keep them awake, or at least massaged, while mail order MOGs are holding forth.
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My son's mother used to carry a wooden spoon in her purse, no doubt encouraged by her family who were strict vpw adherents (they left in '86).
Obviously, child abuse is not limited to physical abuse. As you know, the narc doesn't need to lift a finger to reek devastating abuse and trauma on his target.
"Rubbing in by repetition" is how children are raised, taught and indoctrinated in North Korea.
the trinity: asset, or liability?
in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Posted · Edited by Nathan_Jr
While you can
...wait...WHAT? ....hold the farm!.... your music coordinator said it? Well, shoot! Why didn't you just say so in the first place?
NOBODY? Whew....Thank God! What kind of impact did he get from his people? Sorry for the awkward phrasing - your sentence. Victor had a way with with words, too.
Don't forget, victor trained Loy up in HOW (H-O-W). Loy did what he was taught, because you can't go beyond what you were taught. And Victor ANOINTED Loy's head with oil. With OIL. Anointed. His head. I just don't know how else to say it.
This is a good start, though not hard to do.
Incorruptible seed is not a doctrine unique to victor. But getting born again of serpent seed - that might be unique.
You're comparing victor to King David and making an assumption victor is after God's own heart? It requires a bluntness of spiritual perception to make this leap. This can happen to anyone whose spiritual perception has been dulled by repetitive rubbing.
Not SOME of the things. MOST. Most of the things victor did displeased God. Unless, of course, you mean the god of this world, then, yeah, only some.
His "ministry" changed many lives by misleading, by stealing, killing, and destroying.
ENJOY!