Nathan_Jr

25 minutes ago, Mike said:

Tell me, Nathan_Jr, what do you plan to do with the answers, should you understand them?

I don't plan to do anything. I don't pretend to understand hardcore Christian fundamentalism. So if I ask a doctrinal question about what one believes the Bible to mean, it is because I am curious.

This is a discussion forum. Questions, answers, memories, speculations, opinions, facts, feelings, histories, beliefs... All presented as food to either make one well or make one sick or to simply snack on while doing something else.

13 minutes ago, Mike said:

Maybe, but you ought to study nothing but the Church Epistles for 3 months first, so that you can understand my beliefs.

I asked 2 moderately difficult questions.  Why is Paradise hidden or absent?   Why is Jesus hidden or absent?

If you had studied VPW's teachings better you would know the answer. Instead you criticize what you haven't yet understood.

I will let the questions sit, so that others can exercise their memories.

Tell me, Nathan_Jr, what do you plan to do with the answers, should you understand them?

I don't criticize anything I don't understand. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but I mostly ask questions here. If I understand something, I may present that understanding, or not. But if I know anything at all, it's only because I first humbly admit to knowing nothing.

My questions are real and honest and without pretense. If you don't know the answer to the questions, or don't feel like answering them, just say so.

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

How about I just throw you a bone?

 

How bout you just explain your beliefs.

I don't pretend to know, that's why I asked.

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

An interesting thought flashed across my mind. Tell me it this rings accurate.  If not I will check the video.
 
In the Rock of Ages movie, there is a scene with VPW talking to a little boy.   VPW asks him "Where's Jesus?"  The little boy points up.  VPW points to the little boy's chest and says "He's in there."  or something like that.

Here we have VPW condescending way down to the little boy's vocabulary, and really asked the boy "Where is Christ?" ... meaning holy spirit.   That holy spirit, Christ in you, is within every believer.

Context helps not only in Biblical interpretation but everywhere and in everything.
 

So victor didn't say what he meant and meant what he said where he said it, how he said it, and why he said it?

If victor meant to say Christ, he would have said it as T7TMOG. What an opportunity T7TMOG missed in teaching that distinction. Did victor say Santa Clause brought those presents, but he really meant your parents bought them?

I guess if you have to MAKE it fit...

27 minutes ago, Mike said:

Does anyone know WHY God made Paradise absent, and why that was a blessing?

Does anyone here, besides me, know WHY it was a GREAT blessing to us that God had Acts 1:9 happen, and Jesus moved far away, totally hidden, and absent until sent back.

Has anyone noticed that absent and sent are opposites?
Absent is like “sent away,” just like we read in Acts 1:9.

Pretend I'm a golden retriever. Go ahead and answer your questions for me. 

6 hours ago, Mike said:

I suppose a lot of posters here would find the wording of the "HIDDEN Christ"  just as repulsive as the absent Christ?

I like them both.

Repulsive? What an incredibly stupid supposition.

HIDDEN and ABSENT are not synonymous.

When my son was very little, we would play hide and seek in the house. When he was hiding, he was still present in the house, but he was hidden, concealed. Finding him only undid his hiding, but his presence was unchanged - he was not absent, he was hiding.

If I left the house and hid in a neighbor's house, my son would never find me. It would not matter how cleverly I hid in the neighbor's house because I would no longer be present in ours where we were playing, I would be absent.

49 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

It reminded me of a Johnny Cash song, but it's definitely not that song.

That makes perfect sense to me, but it's not a Cash song, nor did he cover it.

Linda Rondstadt's cover of this song from 1976 may be the most popular version, because, well, she herself was so popular. 

Is Human going to give it a shot?

I hope you'll check out Gillian Welch. Amazing voice, amazing writer.

Ok. Back to the early 1970's. After three courses of meat, here's your dessert...

"I been warped by the rain, driven by the snow 
I'm drunk and dirty don't ya know, and I'm still, willin' 
And I was out on the road late at night
I'd seen my pretty Alice in every head light 
Alice, Dallas Alice 

I've been from Tucson to Tucumcari 
Tehachapi to Tonapah 
Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made 
Driven the back roads so I wouldn't get weighed 
And if you give me weed, whites and wine 
And you show me a sign 
I'll be willin', to be movin' 

Well I've been kicked by the wind, robbed by the sleet 
Had my head stoved in, but I'm still on my feet and I'm still, willin' 
Now I smuggled some smokes and folks from Mexico 
Baked by the sun, every time I go to Mexico, and I'm still 

And I been from Tucson to Tucumcari 
Tehachapi to Tonapah 
Driven every kind of rig that's ever been made 
Driven the back roads so I wouldn't get weighed 
And if you give me weed, whites and wine 
And you show me a sign 
I'll be willin', to be movin'"

17 minutes ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

I could probably name a few Grammy winners, but not any for a given year.  To be fair, I wouldn't do much better with Emmy or Oscar winners... 

George

"Look at Miss Ohio," Soul Journey, Gillian Welch, 2003  (Pronounced with a hard 'G')

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_Welch

19 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

A Gospel according to Grease Spotters to wit Acts of Bravery:

parodies, adaptations and the occassional what in tarnation (GAGSAB for short)

 

Introduction to GAGSAB

Translation philosophy and methodology… zzzzZZZZ     ZZZZzzzz wwhhhhat? Oh that’s my cue? Sorry...I haven’t really given that much thought. I was hoping the other contributors (other Grease Spotters) would just wing it like I do.

Will there be any references to critical Geek techs? Maybe.

Will some want to see it in the original? I hope so.

Will there be proofreader’s oversights and interpolations. You betcha !!!!

 

Well, enough of that beeswax, let’s get down to the real business.

~ ~ ~ ~  

 

A long time ago (well…it was only two days ago when I got this idea) in a Galaxy far far away…(naw -   forget that… Ford Galaxy sounds pretentious…I drove a 1967 Chevy Malibu to the PFAL class)…okay let’s start again…

Forasmuch as many have taken to the internet to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely common among us,

Just as they were handed down to us by WayDale, which from the beginning were plaintiffs, witnesses and others even outside the courtroom.

It seemed good to me also, having had similar experiences of all things mentioned from the very first, to start another thread in order to kill time, most excellent Grease Spotter friends,

That you might be entertained and enlightened, for many have put two and two together and realized wierwille copied Bullinger’s error on how many were crucified with Jesus besides the many other logical fallacies and duplicitous tactics of a dishonest-to-good-grief con artist.

In the time of President - - - uhm - - - you know what? …Let’s not get into politics – whether it’s governments, organizations, or parties…can we just start over…let’s go back to the beginning…when it all started for me…it was winter of 1974…that’s right…I’m driving my ’67 Malibu to class…

in the beginning there was PFAL

and I learned that PFAL was equivalent to the Word

and the Word was top dog because wierwille was top dog

and his bark was actually a lot nicer than his bite and that really bites!

PFAL was made by him in that he copied from other books,

moved $hit around and shook it up in order to cook the books.

He claimed he was sent from God and one of his Grease Spot code names is Snow Job.

He came to bear false witness against any who disagreed with him,

for rather than take it light, he preferred to fight

you can’t argue with stupid…he wasn’t very bright.

He was king in his little cult-world, but the real world knew him not.

It was putting it all together, stripping screws, forcing it to fit, that was the original work.

Well, that and how (H-O-W) he squatted over the mouth of God to take a dump. Pretty stupid, but pretty damn original! 

That’s a waterhead dandy!
 

3 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Nope. Sorry.

Since important works in Psychedelic Rock from 1969 and 1971 don't resonate, I'm switching gears here.

Originally written and reordered in 2003, but is sounds much older than that, dare I say, timeless. Covered by many. Genre is Americana, though some would say Bluegrass.
 

"Oh me oh my oh, look at Miss Ohio
She's a-running around with her rag-top down
She says I want to do right but not right now

Gonna drive to Atlanta and live out this fantasy
Running around with the rag-top down
Yeah I want to do right but not right now

Had your arm around her shoulder, a regimental soldier
An' mamma starts pushing that wedding gown
Yeah you want to do right but not right now

Oh me oh my oh, would ya look at Miss Ohio
She's a-runnin' around with the rag-top down
She says I want to do right but not right now

I know all about it, so you don't have to shout it
I'm gonna straighten it out somehow
Yeah I want to do right but not right now

Oh me oh my oh, look at Miss Ohio
She a-runnin' around with her rag-top down
She says I want to do right , but not right now
Oh I want to do right but not right now"

This singer/songwriter won a Grammy in 2021 for best folk album, and she won a Grammy as producer for O Brother, Where Art Thou? in 2002.

18 minutes ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

This actually does seem vaguely familiar.  Maybe I heard it on a country station.  (I grew up in the Midwest, but I've been in Texas 40 years.)

George

Miranda Lambert covered it. If it made the mainstream "country" station, it got there by her. She's pretty popular, right? 

2 hours ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

I hope we haven't scared him off...

George

Nope. Sorry.

Since important works in Psychedelic Rock from 1969 and 1971 don't resonate, I'm switching gears here.

Originally written and reordered in 2003, but is sounds much older than that, dare I say, timeless. Covered by many. Genre is Americana, though some would say Bluegrass.
 

8 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

well if you're gonna do that, then I'm stealing an old anti-drug campaign ad...

 

this your brain 

this is PFAL

this is your brain of PFAL

 

Should be easy to fry those brains on that PFAL bus.

15 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Holy CARP! Classic projection is what that looks like.

You saw it, too? Yep. That along with the comment about insularity. TWI, PFAL and victor embody the quintessence of "intellectual inbreeding."

ALTHOUGH, I'll admit "intellectual inbreeding" is a new phrasing for me - I love it and I'm stealing it!

HOWEVER, it's not a new concept. It's a hallmark of all cults.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

VPW had a lot of good sources.

Whatever happened to the story of taking all his books (without exception or distinction) to the dump or the burn pit or whatever? I thought victor's ONLY source was his god and the post-first century Bible?

Real question. Not a gotcha. Just trying to fit it all together. You know, like a hand...

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I am not surprised that some rise above the error in their denominations and churches to have some joy.

Would you be surprised to know that some rise above the error in their PFAL and TWI to have great joy, abundance and power?

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

Lamsa was never the expert in Palestinian Aramaic of the first century as he would hold forth

Yes. I'm well aware. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to find out.

I like this topic. I have changed my positions on many beleefs, doctrines. Ideas, claims, assertions, and opinions throughout my life. One can't beleeve one's way to knowing. Beleeving involves clutching, clinging. Embracing the not-knowing, letting go, frees one to know anything at all. One must be WILLING to admit one is wrong or mistaken or deluded. There is great freedom and power in this openness to truth.

So, has TWI changed and corrected their positions on four crucified and lama sabachthani in PFALT? These two corrections would be excellent baby steps into the light of a new dawn.

I wonder if anyone can answer the question.

• Did TWI ever change it's position on four crucified?

• I think I remember Charlene once writing she and others discovered through research that Llamsa's and victor's claim about "lama sabachthani" was inaccurate. Sound mind following the evidence wherever it would lead resulted in discarding the previous held erroneous position. Did TWI ever correct their position on this, according to the evidence?

3 hours ago, Mike said:

You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

No thanks. 
 

41 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was

That's not even a sufficient reason. Even the apostle Paul said don't EAT any where near victor. Don't even EAT near him!  Which should point to how far away one needs to be on that day.

I respect him as I would any other deeply flawed, stupid, carnal human being - with compassion and pity. I respect him as much as I would the rabid raccoon in the bayou behind my house.
 

2 minutes ago, skyrider said:

No, I don't have Rinker's book.....but it sounds like something I'd be interested in pursuing.

 

 

In 2006, the magazine Christianity Today  called it one of the 50 most important or influential books of the past fifty years. Yeah, she sounds interesting.

Just now, skyrider said:

 

No, it was Dr. Higgins who introduced wierwille to the works of E. W. Bullinger.

She sat in the first "The Gifts of the Spirit"[Bullinger's class]........er, pfal class.

Ahh! Right! I remember now. Thanks, Skyrider.

Do you have Rinker's book? If so, have you noticed any content plagiarized by vic?

8 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Rinker

Graduated college and was a counsellor at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterVarsity_Christian_Fellowship#Bible_Study

 

 

Biblical research, teaching, fellowship ministry that uses ....drum roll plz...inductive reasoning.  

So, yes, he likely copied this from her as well. The way international brags that they teach inductive reasoning in their study methods. Which most likely means wierwille copied this from her/Intervarsity Christian Fellowship. 

Thanks, OldSkool.

Do you have Rinker's book on prayer? Is she the one who "introduced" him to Bullinger?

• Is Rosalind Rinker the one vic claims to have "introduced" him to Bullinger? (Coincidentally, he was already "teaching" like Bullinger wrote, but vic had never heard of him....riiight.)
• Does anyone have her book Prayer: Conversing with God? How much of this book did he plagiarize? Apparently, this has been a very important book among evangelicals since its publication in 1959.
• Wow. She didn't get tired until she was 95! Apparently, that's when she chose to stop believing.