Charity

I was a WOW sister of Mary Alexander the year before she went into the corps. I would love to contact her. Are you able to help me with this or let me know how she's doing?

That's even better for this time of year. Cheers!

"How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason." Inspiring point you shared. When I recently read 1 Samuel, it was like an action film where God's leaders such as David and Johnathon were making all these life-or-death decisions immediately after hearing from God. Now I can see how OT people who heard God tell them to do some "wild and crazy" thing (like how Joshua was to break down the walls of Jericho) must have first experienced some kind of still small voice from God. They probably also talked with God about their doubts like Ananias did with Jesus as OldSkool's wrote about in his post. As a teacher, it was the regular tidal bore in my brain caused by the overwhelming high expectations I placed on myself that triggered episodes of acute anxiety followed by depression. I really needed to hear that still small voice of God at those times.

Reading your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes and warmth to my heart. It so fits in with how God and Jesus Christ work in us. Thank you (I don't drink but I love chocolate so here's to you and I having a chocolate shake together.

Excuse me for getting off topic, but I have one observation and one question. Observation: I'm realizing just today how many more people read this site other than the Grease Spotters I've come to know (some with good intentions - others with not so good). Question: With all the horrible things that have happened in the corps over the years, I'm wondering how a few people who were close to my heart and went into the corps are doing. Is there a way I can ask on GSC if anyone knows what's happened to them? It would be inappropriate to ask on publicly-viewed threads like these. Thanks

Thanks for the chuckle at the end. Reading about your outside-the-box life compared to what you had inside the box (twi), is like night and day. It's the cult's "give me all your resources" dogma that made them so much money during their heyday.

Thanks, I was finding that putting a word in the search box brought up different places where the word was used but I was hoping to find a whole thread specifically on that topic. Weird thing was, after I asked for an Undertow thread, I did try the search box again and this time it worked. Still figuring things out it seems.

Was there a discussion about the book on GSC?

I can’t remember vp’s keys to walking by the spirit but that’s probably a good thing. When it comes to your twig coordinator, it seems that the need/desire to criticize and reprove others (i.e., lord over you) would put many people in a damned-if-I-do and damned-if-I-don’t situation. You are wrong either way. Whether a thought is coming from God or our own mind, that can definitely be tricky. On the one hand, if a thought comes from scripture such as “do not lie" or "be kind to one another,” we know the thought is God’s will whether He placed it in our minds or if we recall it on our own. Like you say, no big whoop. It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that ? I have to go, but I'll be back later to discus this some more.

Thanks for sharing this. Now that you mention it, twi did really focus on hs as being something we operated in order to pull off the 9 manifestations which to them were the benchmark for how spiritually mature you were. It really doesn't blend in with or encourage the need for a spiritual walk with God. I guess having "the flesh vs the spirit" thing or "the old man vs the new man" thing going on in us is kind of like having a "split personality" but not in the "medical disorder" kind of way. It's this battle (or competition) between the old and the new that can get absurd at times . The key is "walking in or by the spirit," but after being in twi for so long (which was NOT spiritual a lot of the time), I wonder how God working in us connects with walking by the spirit.

If they are anything like vp (which it sounds like they are), their thoughts and words carry no weight as for as Christ is concerned. I wrote this on The Absent Christ thread this morning. "I just read yesterday in Undertow about Charlene being confronted by vp for the first time. She idolized this man and was working at hq hoping to be accepted into the corps that September. She was also fairly new to the ministry and only 19 years old. He was crude and "barked" and "snapped" at her and then sent her and another young girl packing all because they were not aware of what a twig leader was doing. She was a groveling mess and vowed to do her best by the time she left the room in response to his "Get outta here." How non-Christlike!" I know what you mean about being pulled back into twi's rubbish. Reading Undertow can bring up some pretty unpleasant emotional memories of just how bad it was back then. "Not you Charity we are having a cool talk" - thanks Chockful (picture a happy face here)- it was nice that you mentioned this (maybe to help me from taking things too seriously lol). I mentioned before that I was pretty detailed oriented, even as a child. Sometimes, I even become OCD about things which can cause me to waste a lot of time, energy and brain cells as well as drive other people nuts. Instead of asking a lot of questions, I'm learning to do some research on my own first and later share what I've learned. Have a great weekend!

Hi Twinky, I was reading Galatians this morning and came across 3:8 which says, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would declare the Gentiles righteous by trust, proclaimed the good news to Abraham ahead of time, saying, In you all the nations will be blessed" This verse made a reference to Gen 18:18 which says, "since Abraham will become, yes, become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him?" So what I'm understanding from this is that Abraham (through his seed) became a great nation of Jews. This leaves all the other nations being non-Jewish, meaning Gentiles. But there's still the question of why will the Gentiles need healing since they would be in the new heaven and new earth? The question has really peaked my interest, so I plan to research it on the Internet.

Hi Chockfull, can you explain more about how TWI explains away with a custom hs lower case that is your personalized Iron Man suit? Is the HS and hs another inaccurate doctrine?

I just read yesterday in Undertow about Charlene being confronted by vp for the first time. She idolized this man and was working at hq hoping to be accepted into the corps that September. She was also fairly new to the ministry and only 19 years old. He was crude and "barked" and "snapped" at her and then sent her and another young girl packing all because they were not aware of what a twig leader was doing. She was a groveling mess and vowed to do her best by the time she left the room in response to his "Get outta here." How non-Christlike!

Your posts always give me so much to think about - I'll get back to you on this.

Thank you OldSkool, I am blessed by your words. I'm sitting here thinking about the feelings I've had over the past few days. I mentioned joy earlier. Another one is feeling alive (which makes sense because everything about God, Jesus and the Word is life giving). You know, when I go on my walks, I talk to God about the things I'm learning and sharing on GSC and these new, insightful and energizing ideas come into my mind . This has to be God talking to me and I love it . Alright, enough of this mushy talk, but it's just so intriguing. Take care, Darlene

I take it Rosalie Rivenbark was not a charismatic kind of person - maybe more on the boring side , but the ministry was just as controlling under her leadership. I questioned in my post whether that image of I AM THE WAY showing right above vp's head when teaching at the podium was a subliminal message to the believers. This may have been me leaning a bit toward a conspiracy theory since there are no facts to attest to it being the case. I'll do my penance later ( ). However, the deal of dismissing all members of the corps to shock them and then providing a conditional way back in (like a carrot on a stick) was a conspiracy because both vp and lcm secretly discussed it and agreed to do it. That was a big !

Interesting that there was also a tree of life in the Garden of Eden. Rev says that the tree of life yielded her fruit every month which under our calendar means 12 times a year (as in 12 tribes and 12 fruits). Then again, verse 5 says, "there will be no more night, and they will not need any light from a lamp, nor light from the sun," so what would a "month" be? The tree of life will be on the new earth where God will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, nor will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more; the former things have passed away,” so what does the healing of the nations mean and how do we know that the nations are Gentiles only?

Am I understanding this correctly? It’s NOT being passive – as if it’s separate from you – you don’t go limp and switch on God – like sitting in a car, turning on the ignition key to use God to get somewhere (in other words, you don’t sit and wait for God to do all the work for you) “the Holy Spirit’s ordinary way of working in us is through our own mind and will.” by causing us to see reasons (how? by speaking to our minds?) (is this so our will becomes His will?) which drive us to act.” We’re being mindful. (aware that God is working in us?) Our rational selfhood is strengthened instead of destroyed. (because it's a 2-way relationship unlike vp’s concept of the ideal believer being servile... compliant... submissive... a spineless person endowed with an almost robot-like ability to suppress emotions, ignore sensory input, and turn off logical subroutines.)

Thank you - you're the best! Did you use "insert image from URL" or "choose files."

There's so much wisdom in what you shared both in being a gardener (even an amateur one like me) and in being a Christian. I'm beginning to think it'd be wise to print a lot of these posts so it'll be handy for me to read them over again. I love being around nature or even just looking at pictures or videos of it. There are times when I doubt the existence of God and it's always thinking of His creation that brings me back. There is a video called "Creation Calls" by Brian Doerksen (4:33 version). (It's not allowing me to insert the file I think because it's too large.) While he sings the song, it shows one filmed clip after another of spectacular examples of nature in action (different animals and plants, oceans, waterfalls, forests etc.)

The heaviness I felt in my heart last week when I wanted to have every memory of my time in twi swallowed up by a dark hole someway in a galaxy far, far away has lifted. The beginning of a new spiritual relationship with God and Jesus feels more real to me now. Without twi telling me what I need do and think as a believer in their ministry, there's now the sense of a freedom and even joy. You know what It's like when you spend a long evening with a large group of people in your house and then once they all leave, you can finally get to be alone with the one (or ones) who mean the most in your life. It's like that. The Way has left the building! Still being active both on GSC and with reading Undertow, I can better handle references to the twi created with their practices and doctrine because I can now contrast them with what's happening in my life now. Thanks again for all your help and support.

I saw a picture of vp (courtesy of a Toledo magazine) for the first time in Charlene's book "Undertow." If you haven't seen it, this is what it looks like. On page 91, vp is at a podium with his open Bible so he's obviously teaching. Behind him are the words , I AM THE WAY in large letters at the top and beneath it is an outline of an open book. You can't see much of this part because vp and the podium are covering it up, but twi followers would know what was written there. In smaller letters it would have said THE WORD OF GOD on the left and THE WILL OF GOD on the right (with a little "is" somewhere in the middle). This obviously was a slogan invented by vp and was repeated by believers everywhere. (In the beginning of the first session of the class, vp proclaims this dogma in full: "The first and most basic key for abundant living is that the Bible is the revealed Word and will of God.") So here's what jumped out at me from the picture. Directly over vp's head are the words I AM THE WAY. It doesn't have "Jesus says" above this and if the Bible verse John 14:6 is shown on the bottom, you can't see it. Back then, I would have just thought that the words, of course, referred to what Jesus said, but to me now, seeing this image and knowing about the absent Christ, I quickly connected the statement I AM THE WAY to vp himself. Would I have made that connection if someone else was teaching at that podium - no. But anyone else was not vp - believed to be the "man of God for our day and time." Did twi plan it to look this way? Was it supposed to be a subliminal message to the believers? Who knows.

Very interesting. How were they preserved?

God obviously was protecting His Word by way of all those who moved it along. I wonder if anything else dating so far back has been preserved to this day.