Edi

Rocky, You are being abusive and a jerk. So just shut up already. Sorry to disappoint you but I think ALL of us have a right to express our opinion about the Alec/Kim/Ireland situation without being attacked. We don't have a problem with your opinion Rocky, but we do have a problem with your attitude and your treatment of people. I didn't find anything Eagle said over the top - although I've found your attitude over the top. Do you just pick out a person and use that person to stir up trouble? You antagonize people, like to argue and like to debate and probably on purpose. I think God has something to say about people like you. And no, I'm not providing "proof" - you go look it up if you want to know. Have you considered 'Anger Management' or a 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' course or 'How To Be a Decent Human Being' or 'How to Talk Nice to People'? Oh, don't like being singled out and called on the carpet for YOUR ramblings but expect everyone else to take it from you? And don't even bother to respond to me - cause I won't read anything you have to say. When I see your little picture I'll just skip right over it cause you are an abuser and I don't have to listen to you. I would suggest everyone else do the same. There is a saying, "Don't try to reason with an unreasonable person". And trust me darlin - you ARE unreasonable. You remind me of the little bitty bully on the playground. Until you learn how to play nice I'd just as soon you not come to the playground! But if you do come to play I will be ignoring what you have to say. EAGLE: You don't owe Rocky ANY explanation and you don't have to defend yourself or prove yourself to any of us. You don't have to waste any breath, energy, effort or emotion responding to Rocky anymore. Oh, and Rocky, have you ever read up on or done research on "fruit of the spirit"? You might give it a whirl. Oh, do I sound harsh???? Well, I'm tired of people like you. Go sit in the corner and have a nice time out for being bratty to your siblings.

Oh brother = why bother = run for your lives!!!!! Take a d*mn antidepressant and knock the devil spirit on it's a**!!! Or SAM-e (natural antidepressant). People can be so silly sometimes!!! Oh, and I wanted to say too that CES and everything that I've read for many years about them is enough to depress anyone. It reads like this, "Come to our organization, it's guarenteed to give you depression, confusion, heartache....... and every negative thing". It seems kinda like it's everything OPPOSITE of love and true manifestation of the spirit and fruit of the spirit listed in scripture. They are NUTS. After everything I've read regarding their organization I think a person would have to be brain dead to want to hook up with CES. You shall know them by their fruit, well

Wow, it's been interesting reading everyone's responses on this subject. I do believe that Alec Baldwin has had a lot of problems with people, anger issues and verbal abuse. It's pretty well known that Kim Basinger left him because of his rages and abuse. Could it be that the mama is trying to protect her child????? Alec Baldwin said (paraphrasing) that he was sorry the tape had been leaked to the public because it was not good for a child!!!! What in the h*ll is wrong with that statement! What was NOT good for the child was his verbal and emotional abuse to her. Kim Basinger's lawyer releasing the tape to the media was bad for ALEC, not his daughter - HE was the one who was bad for his daughter - not the tape that proves how bad he is. He just got found out. For anyone who has lived with an abusive husband, wife, partner we all know how they treat the children. Alec who has the classic symptoms and manifestations of an abuser was probably being "nice" on this phone call. In person and in private it gets REALLY nasty. Alec Baldwin has not only proven himself to his ex-wife and his daughter how abusive and rageful he can be but also to other people. Gee, did he not just go through a lawsuit from another party for his rageful, abusive tirade to them??? Uh, yeah. He's got a BIG problem and needs to seek some serious help. I'm surprised a judge hasn't made him go to anger management therapy. But he's too much in denial and too proud and egotistical to seek help. Gee, and he blames everything on everyone else - true characteristic of an abuser. AGAIN, he said he was sorry the tape was leaked to the media because it wasn't good for a child. That statement should speak LOUDLY to a judge somewhere. For those of you who have not had an abusive spouse you have no idea what it is really like to have to protect your children from the other person who emotionally and verbally abuses them - no matter what form that abuse takes, physical, mental and/or emotional. Abuse is horrible no matter what form it's dished out in. And the way he was talking TO his daughter and ABOUT his ex-wife was abusive. Gosh, do we think it's the first time???? I do believe that it is Alec who keeps taking Kim back to court all the time, not the other way around. I like what the other person said about he is the adult, she is the child. And yeah, raising kids are frustrating - get in line. Oh, and didn't ya just love the comments Alec had to say about Kim to their daughter. Talk about abuse. The only thing I'm praying for is that there is a judge out there that wakes up and sees/hears the situation for how it really is and protects the child from the raging lunatic Alec. Sheesh.

[Edi I like your happy little bird as well! Dot, thanks - I'm a birdy girl. I have a cockatiel who is a real sweety - most of the time anyway :) And good to see you again.

eeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. That is so spiritually disgusting. Makes me want to spit in their face. They are nuts and have troubles spiritually I don't even know how they live with themselves. Uh, my bible says, "They will know you are my disciples by how you love one another". Oh, yeah, putting people in a position of having to cut off their toes - yeah, that's REAL love! Sheesh.

I'm not sure if anything can be proven from scripture but then again there is ALOT of scripture that we don't have access to. I've wondered if they didn't do sexual preversions to Jesus. If they would beat him so that his visage was marred more than any man then why wouldn't they do other kinds of atrocities to him too. It wouldn't surprise me if we found out they did - just what we know is pretty hlorrific.

Another spot - I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I had a miscarriage too and no one seemed to care. I was 2 months pregnant. You do know now that it wasn't your fault don't you? I still think of my baby too. Love you lots. Edi

Well said Trust and Obey. Edi

Sunesis and Eyesopen, Hello Sunesis, so good to hear from you and yes, I'm glad to be back too and thanks for the compliment about my insight!! Not everyone says that you know. And Eyesopen, hello to you too. It's so nice to meet you and hopefully we'll get to know each other better. xo Edi

Does anyone know if CM gets paid by the ministry each month or quarterly or get severance pay or anything? I find it hard to believe that he left with nothing. Just wondering.

[For those who have changed their beliefs, how did the circumstances of your exit from TWI influence your subsequent religious/spiritual beliefs?] It showed me that my faith and my principles weren't from the Way Ministry. It was kind of comforting actually. It takes alot of faith and courage and tenacity to leave something that is everything to you - your job, your family, your belief system and then go make a whole new life for yourself and your family. Takes a lot of guts. And look how many of us did it. When I left the ministry God told me He would become my everything. And He did and He saw me through all the hardships of starting over in everything and in every way. I got stronger and tighter with God. The fallout from me leaving the ministry, the Corps and my marriage was HUGE because there were so many lies told by the leaders in the ministry when I left it and by my husband when I left him. They pretty much destroyed my reputation to anyone who would listen to them. It was terrible and it was painful. But, eveything I had learned from the ministry that became corrupt held me in good stead when I left it. Is that a paradox or what??? Actually I'm glad I met the Way. At the time it was EARLY 70s - free love, sex, drugs etc era. When I picked up the bible (when I got in the Way) I threw away my "peace" pipe and other paraphanalia and started studying the Bible. I figure that saved me from a whole lot of problems and set me on the path to studying to show myself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth for the rest of my life. Just because a lot of the people in the ministry were really screwed up in alot of ways doesn't mean it negated the truth of the scriptures that we read, loved, studied and learned from. It was the beginning for me. I left and I never looked back and I'm still going strong today.

Believe it or not I've actually been accepted for jobs using my Way degree. I got my job as a Logistics Mgmt Specialist with the Govt using my degree. I was accepted as the Director of a Recovery Program with my degree. I applied for Vocational schools twice (Cosmetology in the 80's and Massage Therapy in 07) and was accepted using my degree. Alot of businesses don't care where it came from as long as you have one to submit to them. At least that's been my experience.

Well, you ask a lot of good questions. I do believe in the bible but I think that how we have today it is very limiting. I also study from the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Hag Nammadi Library, the Lost Books of the Bible, Kabbalah and other religions and of course the Hebrew language. I also believe in a Sovereign God therefore I believe everything I've gone through has been for my learning. There are a lot of things in life that I never would have been able to accomplish had I not had Corps training, so I'm thankful I had the opportunity to go through it. I was listening to a teaching last week and the teacher said, "In this world we are becoming, in the next world we will be". I thought this was a great statement. Everything I've gone through here is preparing what I will be able to be, do, teach and lead later on. So, I'm thankful for all the teaching and learning I get now, even when some of it doesn't feel so great at the time I am going through it. I really feel that God had his own agenda with those of us who went in the Corp with an open heart to learn. I got a lot out of it myself and have always been glad and thankful I went through it.

The Hebrew word SACHAQ is used in Judges 16:25 & 27. It means laugh, play, mock, jest, toy with. There is nothing in the word/language that suggests this scripture here suggests anything sexual. I think they also associated a lot of things sexual to the Genesis account and to a lot of other things when they were going through their homophobic stage. I think most of what they taught regarding sex was off the word, including their justification as to why it was ok to have affairs outside of marriage etc.

I thought all the replies were really interesting. But I have to say that regardless when a baby is really alive or not I find the ministries belief and teachings that abortions were all right (and all the rage too I might add) was terrible. I know ordained ministers who were TELLING people who wanted to keep their babies to get abortions because "the timing wasn't right". I'd hate to be those leaders/teachers who have to stand before the Lord and explain why that particular teaching was prevelant in the ministry. It was horrible. Maybe later on they took a different stance but in the early years it was terrible.

Too funny - I cracked up about the drinking of a fifth of dambouie!!! Fran Nave and I used to sneak out at night every once in a while and go to the local bar and do shots. Good grief, we had some fun times. She eventually left the Corps but I still wonder how she is now. She was a beautiful person for sure. Corps night was ok but VPW would go on and on at times. As long as they taught from scripture I was ok with it. I think God taught me more all the times I WASN'T at a meeting. I would refuse to cut grass or work on the grounds or go witnessing in Dayton. Scripture Retemory was ok in 4th/5th Corps cz the whole row would have to stand up and say it. All of us who didn't memorize them could usually muddle our way through and do Kareoke style. I didn't go to lead either and didn't want to go and glad I didn't. At one of them they did a military takeover and made the people there think the Communists had taken over the camp. They blindfolded all of them and tied them up, separated them and held them prisoners. They made them stay awake for hours, did hours of interrogation and a whole lot of other things to them. In the end Craig said that if any of them had just stopped and asked God He would have told them it was a hoax. I was always glad I didn't go. When those of us who stayed behind heard about it we thought the leadership was NUTS and thought, "what was the purpose of all that". I pretty much put my time in and worked staff for a year after graduation and then left the ministry. They got upset because I wanted a paycheck for working full time like my husband got for working full time. There is no way they gave the little wifey money for working full time at Kipp Farm. It was hard work and I thought I deserved a paycheck too. Silly me!!! When I insisted they said I had a bad attitude. Yeah, and I said, "whatever". I knew it was just a matter of time. Gosh, I learned people would make all kinds of stories about you when you didn't do what they wanted you to do. Then they would try to make it sound like it was you that was so screwed up. Between the ministry and my husband spreading lies about me I was/am really glad I never gave too much of a d*mn how anyone else thought about me. It's a wicked world inside that there place!!!! Silly a**ed people. Glad I left when I did. From reading all the posts here I have to tell you that 4th Corps wasn't as bad as you all had it. So I guess I'm glad for that.

Does anyone know if he got away with this??? What a dope

Most of the feminine has been taken out of the bible. If a person cares to really research this they will find lots and lots of feminine in the bible. I'm not quite sure why men were so afraid of women down through the ages. Alot of the churches and non-denominational STILL are.

Now I KNOW too many people have too much time on their hands!!! Sheesh I Like the Dixie Chicks

I think she literally died of a broken heart because of her son. Everytime she was in an interview after he died she seemed like she was so drugged she could barely speak right. And what in the world was Howard K doing supporting her to go to the different interviews after her son died. She seemed barely conscious. I don't think she wanted to live anymore after Danny died.

Quote - "I can't bear the thought of giving CES any money but I want the book". That cracked me up Too funny (in a good way) and thanks for the laugh today.

:( Wow, that's too bad to hear about VF. I thought he was one of the nicest MOG at HDQ back then. He was always encouraging us, was fair to us and stuck up for us when other leaders wanted to trash us. He really was like first level mgmt caught in between his people and the leaders and he really took a lot of hits for the people who were under him. I realize I never worked for him so I 'm not discounting what is being written by the others - I just never had that experience from him. JAL was another example in the early (oh, I mean "ancient" Corps) to me in the early days. Whereas some of the Corps were arrogant and condenscending I never found that to be true of him. In the Corps I was his first twig leader and he was nothing but courteous, supportive and helpful to me. I find the things I've read here about him, how he treated Elizabeth and how he allowed the leaders in CES to treat him to be completely opposite of the JAL I knew back then. May we all be forgiven for our past offenses. I think all of us who were leaders back then need to be forgiven by somebody and probably multitudes! If there is anybody out there I hurt I am VERY sorry and I apologize and ask you for forgiveness and hope I am forgiven. I wonder if other past leaders ever think and say that. I hope so.

How funny Eagle - you think Corps 6-12 are the "early" years. That must make 1-5 the "ancient" years!!! I don't know by experience how bad it really got but I have read about how bad the later Corps were. I'm thankful I left at the beginning when it was just starting to go mean. I wouldn't have lasted long at all - I never was good at taking abuse. I left the first time Craig was screaming in my face flinging spittle everywhere telling me I was dividing the family of God. I told him I thought he and all the other leaders were doing a mighty fine job of it all by themselves and I hardly thought I was the problem. He shut up at that one and I left and never looked back. I had taken many witnesses to talk to him about a leader who was openly teaching it was ok to have sex in the Way home and at the fellowships. Well NOW I understand why he didn't do anything. I'm glad I got in when I did and I'm glad I left when I did. You can take the girl out of the Way Corps but you can't take the Way Corps out of the girl (((((LInda Z)))))) Hello, it's so good to see you again too. It's been a long time since I've been on and I'm thankful Mr. Computer still recognized my name and let me in. I'll have to visit more often. Thanks for the hello.

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