Edi

Rascal, You are more than welcome. Don't feel too foolish - people like that are really good at tripping people's triggers and sucking the life and energy out of people emotionally. In recovery we call them emotional vampires. When they can get a reactiion out of you (or whoever) that makes them feel powerful and in control. They get all excited and pleased when they can get someone to react to them like that. They are like parasites - you have to feed them what they want to keep them alive. Cut off the food supply and they wither away. And no matter how reasonable you are, how much sense you make, how right you are, they always have an egotistical, smartmouth comeback. They are good at what they do. The best thing to do is not respond at all. How they are is the nature of the beast, it's ungodly and shows a complete lack of spiritual maturity. As far as being sorry - it's just a matter of learning what NOT to do with certain people. Here are some words of wisdom: "Life is a theater - invite your audience carefully. Not everyone is holy enough and healthy enough to have a front row seat in our lives. There are some people in your life that need to be loved from a distance. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you let go, or at least minimize your time with draining, negative, incompatable, arguementative, not going-anywhere relationships/friendships/fellowships! Observe the relationships around you. Pay attention to: Which ones lift and which ones lean? Which ones give and which ones drain? Which ones encourage and which ones discourage? Which ones are on a path of growth uphill and which ones are going downhill? When you leave certain people, do you feel better or feel worse? Which ones always have drama or don't really understand, know and appreciate you and the gift that lies within you? The more you seek God and the things of God - the more you seek quality. The more you seek not just the hand of God but the face of God - the more you seek people who are honorable. The more you seek growth, peace of mind, love and truth around you, the easier it will become for you to decide who gets to sit in the FRONT ROW and who should be moved to the balcony of your life. You cannot change the people around you...but you can change the people you are around. Ask God for wisdom and discernment and choose wisely the people who you allow to sit in the front row of your life." Another wise saying: "Never make a person a priority when they only make you an option". When they make you an option they are abusing and using you. When that happens don't make them a priority by responding to them. Another wise saying: "You are the CEO of your life. Choose wisely." When he is getting you to react he is in control of your life and emotions. When you don't react you are in control of your life and emotions. The "Boundaries" book and DVD is an excellent source of learning HOW to take control of your life. You can google it for information. They are life changing. It is the foundational class in my Recovery Program for abused women. I really enjoy your posts and you are a very intelligent woman!

Too funny Zshot!!! And with only $20/mo spending money we sometimes couldn't even afford the chapstick. but every once in a blue moon we would get free beer and a free hamburger And yes, I think TWI needed us to do the work and the money from sponsorship - free workers and free money!! see my other post in this thread for my real thoughts on what WC was all about.

Twinky said: I wonder if so many would have been so keen to sign up if it had meant going to a seminary for four years and actually training for priesthood/ministerial/pastoral responsibility in a more usual setting? Twinky, In reality we were underpaid ($20/mo) workers. In reality our sponsors paid for our room and board. In reality we worked at least 10 hours a day - and sometimes more. In answer to your question, no probably not. But it was the 60s & 70s and everyone was wanting to get on a different bandwagon and march to a different drummer. So we did. By the 4th Corps it was already rotten in Denmark but it was before the "mark and avoid" era so we were still having fun. The "liberty in Christ" they were teaching us and doing was so off the mark that it opened the doors for much worse spiritual things later on. VPW used to say, "where there is sexual fornication you will find spiritual fornication" and he was right. It was the beginning of the end. He said it would be either sex or money that would bring the ministry down and he was right about that too. The sad thing about it was that he was the one who was teaching it to us - he started it, I heard it with my own ears. Did a whole lot of us follow blindly? Yes. Are we responsible for our own actions in spite of what one man taught us and led us into? Yes. Are we sorry? I think most of us are. The "priesthood/ministerial/pastoral" pool was already tainted from early Corps and it just got worse and eventually self destructed. A lot of people got hurt in the process. Did VP have a ministry? I think he did. But I think he blew it and I think he chose the wrong person to succeed him. CM carried on a legacy that is unclean and unscriptural but VP started that legacy. It's ironic that VP saved so many kids from the drugs and sexual revolution in the world (from that time period) but utterly destroyed people and sent them down the wrong path with the "liberty" within the confines of spirituality. But, it's enlightening to me when I come on boards like these and see all the people who stayed faithful to God, recovered and healed from the abuse, many, including leadership, who went on to start their own fellowships and churches and many who went into mainstream religion. I don't think it was VPWs idea of Word Over the World but I think it was a part of God's plan. Proverbs 19:21 says, "Man devises all their plans but God's purpose will prevail". When you believe God is soverign you begin to see things a little differently.

WordWolf, I read things like what you just wrote and I am so thankful I got out when I did. I only had 2 incidents when I was in the Corps and told leadership that if they didn't like it to throw me out. I had one other incident with Craig spitting in my face about a year or two after I left TWI. I had taken witnesses to see Craig because of problems they were having with the leader in their area. It was the first time I had seen Craig like that - I left before they all got totally crazy. I'm thankful. I read some of the stories here and I'm horrified and embarrassed that leadership became the way they did. I also read stories where a lot of the leaders out in the field stayed sane and protected their people and some didn't. What a mess and what devastation - terrible.

Just read this and it cracked me up doojable. I'm still chuckling. Thanks for the laugh.

What other feedback do you have about the "selection" process? I don't know that they had a very good selection in the beginning. I was "selected" because I became engaged to a man who wanted to go into the WC. I had to cram all the classes into about a 9 month period and then take the test so I could go in with him. I guess everyone was saying good things about me and I passed the test so they let me in!! I am very thankful they did though because I learned a lot and gained a lot of confidence in myself and my ability to do just about anything I set my mind to. But I don't think there were very many who were really qualified to lead people - especially as young as most of us were. What in the heck did teenagers and 20 year olds know about leading anything - we could barely lead ourselves. And there weren't very many "adults" coming into the ministry. I felt like the ministry grew too fast and there weren't enough really good qualified leaders to lead the mass exodus of kids who were coming in. It created a major problem for people when they got leadership who were too young and who had massive egos! A lot of abuse happened in MANY different arenas. It may have taken a long time for the ministry to die but it sure devastated a lot of people on it's way down. When leadership is rotten from the top down or from the bottom up (however you want to look at the Way Tree) it is impossible for God's plan to survive in that Ministry that He tried to work in. He gives "churches" opportunities to carry His plan out just like He does people - it's just on a bigger level.

Rascal, Some people just like to stir up trouble, disagree, argue, debate etc. Best thing to do - don't even read their threads. Just jump right over the angst driven, disagreeable person, see them as invisible . Only respond to the people who have proven to you that they can engage in a legitimate adult conversation and who are mature enough to agree to disagree on subjects where they differ in opinions. Makes me wonder if they are really one of "us". They are worth ignoring and they ruin the boards for everyone who does like to come here. Sometimes I wonder if they are plants just trying to shut GreaseSpot down by causing so much animosity that everyone quits coming here to read and post. An example: I was on the chat site the other night and there was a major argument going on. Two of them were so juvenile, sad, pathetic and ridiculous that everyone left the chat site. What's up with that??!!! They can ruin it for the rest of us - IF WE LET THEM. If we don't engage in conversation with them then they have no one to argue with!!! And if we all quit conversing with them they won't have an audience. It reminds me of leadership who would get you in a room and scream and accuse you for hours trying to rile you up and break you down. One of the nice things about this is they can't get us face-to-face - we CAN ignore them. You can only engage in mature, adult conversations with people who are sane, rational, have sound minds, are functional on a social level, and can converse on an adult level and can play nice on the playground! Don't get mad, get even - ignore them!!!

Boy that was right on the mark WordWolf - I don't think anyone could have said it any better.

I have 2 desks. One is the public desk that has my laptop, mouse and mug on it. The private one :ph34r: is the "oh my" desk. It is a rolltop and it's got everything else and more in it. Gotta love rolltops - guests come over, roll the top down and voila' the room is clean once again!! Works for me.

Congratualations Vickles and glad you had a safe trip. Good luck on a new job too.

You lucky lady!!! I've always thought about going and haven't! I consider Joyce Meyer my "mother in the Word". She was instrumental in a lot of my healing. I'm so glad you got blessed Dot.

Melissa Ethridge's new song "Message To Myself"

Happy, happy birthday John - hope you had a good one.

Sheesh

Wow, you are so right. I hope John didn't read my post!! You are right - he didn't die. Sorrrrrrrrrrry John.

Well said cman

Well maybe so.....hmmmmm I don't know - I didn't know any of them that had bad ones back then - did you?

rely on scripture? which ones? which interpretations? And don't get me going on "keys". You silly baby - just pick one - God can work through any scripture and any interpretation - don't limit Him!!

"I would think as Christians that we would rely on scripture to show us what to do, as well as letting Him show us what He is doing..." by White Dove Absolutely right White Dove. That's what I learned too. And I would add, not only what He is doing BUT also what He wants us to do. Anytime a person is egotistic they will bring the glory back to themselves in some way. It's why Jesus had big problems with the Pharisees, among other reasons. A good teacher said, "I don't care if it's Jewish or Christian man made tradions (traditions of men). If it goes against written scripture you need to throw them out". If anyone wants to know exactly HOW to love God and their neighbor according to how God says HE wants us to do it all they have to do is go back and read what He says about it - in the Old Testament "Law" (which is the Hebrew word Torah = instructions). i.e God's traditions! In the Hebrew language the words HEAR and OBEY are the same words. What are we supposed to be hearing and obeying? What God told us to do. Where does He tell us what to do and how to do it? Old Testament Law (Torah = Instructions). All of the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) don't all apply to any one person. God never expects any person to keep all of them. Why? Because they don't even apply to everyone! There are specific laws that apply only to women, men, children, farmers, widows, orphans, merchants, people who live in the land of Israel, people who live in the holy city, the "strangers and foreigners" who are attached to them (the grafted in ones) etc. And there are some that apply to everyone. God only expects us to live the "laws = instructions" that pertain and apply to us. So where does the confusion come in? Rabbinic Oral Law (traditons of men/man made traditions). Jesus came to do away with the traditions of men that they had attached to God's instructions (law = hebrew word torah) which ARE the Rabbinic Oral Laws. The "Rabbi's (which means 'my great one') would make laws to tell people how to do God's law. God told them to not even call him Rabbi, for there is only one great Rabbi and that is God in heaven. A good example of rabbinic oral laws: (Different Hebrew rabbinic oral law words: Takanot, Ma'asim, Halachot, Minhagim, Gezerot.) It says to do no work on the Sabbath, the 7th day (Saturday) which God gave us to rest in. The Pharisees made up a list of 39 "laws" telling the people what "no work" meant - along with 100s of sub catagories under those 39. Another example: they made a list of 25-100 laws on how to write EACH letter of the Hebrew alphabet (alef-beit). There are whole libraries of rabbinic oral laws. They made it impossible for God's people to do God's laws (Torah = instructions). In Deuteronomy 30:11-14 God says: "For these commandments which I command you to do are not too difficult for you to do, nor are they out of your reach. They are not in heaven that you should say, "Who shall go up to heaven to get them for us and make us hear them that we may observe them". Neither are they beyond the sea that you should say "Who shall go over the sea for us and bring them to us so that we may hear them and and do them? But the word is very near to you, it is in your mouth and your heart so that you may do it." What scripture did Jesus preach? The New Testament? No, he taught and preached the scripture he was raised with - the Old Testament scriptures! It's a wise person who knows the scriptures Jesus kept and taught. Jesus came to do away with the rabbinic oral law, not God's law (torah = instructions). King James Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill". Aramaic Pedangta Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to loosen the law or the Prophets; I did not come to loosen the law but I came to put it on a firm foundation". The people, by trying to do the traditions of men the rabbi's and Pharisees attached to the commandments God gave them, had gotten so far from God's truth that Jesus came to put God's (law) torah - instructions") back on a firm foundation. Whose foundation? God's. Interesting huh? Oh, well I guess you all know what I'm studying now. Thanks for letting me share.

My son and I supported the burger joint in town I think We used to buy Pizza Burgers - Yummmmmm. We still remember how good those were!!! I remember when John Nave and another man was killed in a car accident. VPW said they died because they SNUCK into town to get a bag of cookies. That was the stupidest thing I had EVER heard. If that was true all the corps would have been dead!!! We pretty much all left to go get food all the time. I saw him use a lot of manipulation and control and implanting fear and confusion with that incident. When I was in the Corps there were a lot of really good people. Some of them weren't but most of them really were nice. I was in one of the beginning Corps so it wasn't so crazy yet but I think it was becoming that way. After I graduated I worked staff at the Kipp Farm for a year. After that year I left there AND left the ministry, thank God. Listening to all of you here it sounds like it got really weird after that. The last contact I had with the ministry was a year or two later when some people in KC asked me to take them to see Craig because of things that were happening in their area that they felt was not right. I did take them to see Craig and he screamed and spit in my face accusing me of trying to create division within the family. When I left HDQ he had not become like that yet so it was the first time I experienced him out of control. After I left there I didn't have anything to do with the ministry at all - except to help people transition out of the ministry when the 'great falling away happened'. People who put me down for leaving TWI and told me I would physically die were all of a sudden calling me and asking me what they should do. It was an interesting experience. People actually thought if they left TWI they would die. I was living proof that not only did I not die but I had a good relationship with God. It surprised them. AND, after the the whole nazi camp at Lead happened - VPW told us what they had done to the people there and told us that everyone blew it - especially Craig. He said had any of them applied the principle, "be still and know that I am God" God would have revealed to them exactly what was going on, but none of them got with God. I thought the whole thing was VERY strange and wondered why anyone would do that to anyone!!!! It wasn't my idea of how God would work with anyone to teach then anything. WOW - memories!!! Whew

Nicole, that was quite some post. I agree with you. I think most people went into the Ministry and Corps with good intentions and with their hearts in the right place. Love you. Edi

Thank you oldiesman. My motto in life is: What you aren't afraid of losing can't control you. And since the only thing I'm afraid of losing is God - well that says it all!!! :wub:

I must have gotten out before all the ego stuff happened. We had nametags in 4th Corps but they were just to let people on Sunday night know who we were and what our names were. It seemed innocent enough then.

I have a rescue cockateil named Buttercup - yellow, grey & orange. Cutest one on earth I might add :)