Sunesis

Bride, I pretty much agree with everything you say.

Paul did preach to Jew and Gentile. But, it was Paul, and Paul alone, who received the revelation of the "mystery" from the risen Christ. Israel had the living earthy Messiah. Paul dealt with the Heavenly, risen Christ. Paul received this revelation when he was in prison. The prison epistles (which include Timothy) reveal the "mystery" - the new creation, and one body - his body.

But, you also have his other epistles, where he's seeing it, preaching what he knows to both Jew and Gentile (again, in II Cor. He tells them they will have a new celestial body), Romans was his foundation and it was built on, kind of preparing the Jews to accept the one body with the Gentiles, which he does in Galations, Hebrews and the non-prison epistles. Then you see the apex of the mystery revealed to him in Ephesians while imprisoned.

He talks about "my gospel." this was different from the gospel the apostles were preaching (the kingdom is at hand - repent). Because of "my gospel" he had to go to Jerusalem and explain it to the Apostles. There they gave him the right hand of fellowship and decided: they would continue to go to the jews, Paul to the gentiles. That is why Peter said, some of his teachings were hard to understand.

In the NT, you see Paul's understanding grow. Because of the "abundance of revelation" to Paul, there was a thorn in the flesh.

When we read the parables and prophecy given by Jesus in the Gospels, most were talking about the Kingdom, like the 10 virgins with oil. Since this age of grace, the age of this mystery was still a secret and not yet revealed, and since Jesus was sent to Israel, and was expounding to his Apostles, those are all to Israel. I believe the Jesus was talking about the end times when he returns from heaven and restores the Nation of Israel. There will be some who let their oil run out, when he returns it will be too late.

Yes, when Paul quotes the OT, there's plenty written to Israel to the descendents of Abraham. Those prophecies are fullfiled in Rev. when the Gentiles believe the preaching of the 144,000, and are martryred - the gentile "tribulation" saints. They enter into the Kingdom when it comes along with Israel, thus, are all nations blessed.

I see the Bible as prophecy which is all to and for Israel. But the NT - mystery, the new creation, jew and gentile one new body - is a parenthesis sandwiched in there. It doesn't take up much space. Then, the church is gathered, the holy spirit reverts back to working like it did in the OT - upon, not in. The church and Holy Spirit gone, the parenthesis is now ended and God picks up dealing with Jew and Gentile and the OT prophecies of the "end of days", Daniel, Ezekial, Isaiah, etc., Jesus telling Israel the signs to come, are now finalized and culminated in Revelation.

The NT believer is never told to look for times, seasons, moons, planets, blood red sun, abomination in the temple, etc. Those are end times for Israel. Israel will know, during the tribulation, when the Messiah will come, almost to the day.

Those of us in this parenthesis of the NT, the one body, are not told to look for signs. We are to look for Christ and his return. That's it. We look for him. His coming for us is different than his coming for Israel at the end.

Mr. Juedes, I totally agree with you - it is grace. Abraham was made righteous without the law by his believing. Paul in Romans shows how grace and faith supersede the OT law, and that is why Israel is blinded today by trying to do the works of the law for their righteousness. But that's a whole 'nother thread.

I know people who are into covenant theology will disagree with what I wrote.

But too many Christians today do apply things for Israel to themselves - the church.

Paul does use the analogy in Ephesians of us as a bride, but he does not say we are the bride. It is an analogy.

Too many promises to Israel are not for us, and too many promises to the One body are not for Israel.

I see no problem with God having two groups - those on earth, and the new creation in heaven.

As I said, they were called in two different time periods, have different callings and different spheres.

If you really compare them, you have to do some twisting to make them fit as one group.

I know you are a trained theologan and I am not. So I cannot argue point by point and go up against your credentials.

From what I have read over the years, what I posted is what I think. If you read the OT and the prophecies - as the Bible is basically a book of prophecy - it is magnificent what God has in mind for Israel.

I do not believe the "one body," the "new creation," the "one new man in Christ," us who are the "fullness of Christ's body" is the same as the Bride.

I will respectfully disagree with some of you here. I believe The One body and the Bride are not the same.

We need only to compare the two groups and it becomes clear.

First, I believe the "mystery" revealed by risen Christ to Paul while in prison in Ephesians is the culmination of God's purpose of the ages.

I believe this age of the mystery, this age of Grace was unprophesied. It was not prophesised about in the Old Testament, nor Revelation. It was a secret, hidden from before the foundation of the world, but is now revealed to Paul. If it had been revealed Satan never, ever would have let Christ be crucified - never. He sealed his doom.

Its like two hills. The old testament prophet could see Christ coming and crucified on the top of one hill, and look and see the hill behind it with the "kingdom of God" and Christ as King in Glory, but could not see what was in the valley between the two hills. The valley is the mystery kept secret. The age of grace, us.

God uses a phrase "before the foundation of the world." From what I've read of it, its kind of like BC/AD to us. Its an important dividing line. Before the foundation of the world is Gen. 1:1 in its perfection in eternity. From, or since the foundation of the world is Gen 1:2 - the restoration of the earth after it became without form or void.

There were only two "beings" called from "before the foundation of the world." Christ, and us.

We were called in eternity.

Israel was called "from the foundation of the earth." They were not called in eternity.

This is two different callings.

So, here's my little comparison:

1. Israel in time: Called from, or since the foundation of the world (Gen 1:2)

Church in time: Called before the foundation of the world (Gen 1:1) - only Christ and us are

called and purposed "before" the foundation of the earth

2. Israel: Holy spirit upon Israel

Church: Holy spirit in us - we are sealed

3. Israel: Their sphere and dominion is the earth,

fulfilled in Rev. with the new Jerusalem

on earth, comes down from heaven

Church: We are seated in heavenlies our sphere is heaven

Jerusalem is not our promise or inheritance

4. Israel: Their eternity is in eternal, fleshly bodies on earth

such as Christ's resurrected body was - flesh and

bone

Church: Our eternity is as as a new, spiritual creation

5. Israel: Their sphere is earthly

Church: Our sphere is heavenly - we are seated in the heavenlies

6. Israel: They are promised "the Kingdom" on earth

Church: We are promised heaven

7. Israel: Messiah and Israel rule over mankind on earth

Church: We rule over and judge angels in the heavenlies

8. Israel: Israel is Christ's bride

Church: The church fills up Christ's body in the heavenlies

We are called to be a "new creation." Israel, is never called a "new creation" nor promised to be a "new creation."

Israel is now "lo ammi" (not my people). The covenant connected with Israel as a NATION and their LAND is held in abayance until we are taken out of the way.

When Israel rejected the prophets, the Messiah on earth who preached the Kingdom of God is at hand - it was here! It would have happened now if they had accepted Christ, and then, the last ditch effort by God of sending the 12 apostles to them to repent - it was still not too late, the Kingdom would have come - Israel rejected the offer and...

God goes to the Gentiles, stops the prophetic clock, and now, calls us and makes a new creation - us.

When we are gathered together, the prophetic clock will start up and continue again.

That is why Paul tells the believers in Thessalonians, they don't need to know about the signs and times - those are for Israel (after we are gathered), not for those of us in the age of grace. We are told to look for Christ, not the Antichrist. For Christ, not what Russia or the EU or Nero is doing.

But because Christians don't make this distinction between this unprophesied age and the OT times, they take the prophesies of the OT, of Christ in the Gospels (remember - he came ONLY to Israel in his ministry on earth - to call them to the Kingdom that was at hand) and apply these prophecies to themselves - which is not right, since we are living in an unprophesised time period.

The prophecies of the OT are fulfilled and completed in Revelation.

Thus, prophecy of the "end times" as many Christians are into today, though, while fascinating and wonderful to understand - do not apply to us. We are in an unprophesied time period.

As the church, the one body, the new creation - as a different species that will be revealed someday:

We are not Israel, who is the bride - they were never told they would be a "new creation."

You have two different groups, called out at two different times, with two different purposes in God's mind, with two different spheres of being and two different destinies.

We were called in eternity, we shall live in the heavenlies in eternity as a new creation - a new species, a new being that has never been seen or conceived of, except in the mind of God before Gen. 1:1 - conceived in eternity. Those are our promises. That is amazing grace.

When Christ was asked what was required of a man by God he said just "one thing" - believe on Him [Christ] whom God sent.

A Christian is simply one who believes on the One God sent - Christ.

He has invited Christ into his heart.

Christianity is Union with Christ.

All other ritual, regulation, do this, that, etc. is extraneous, not needful and not required.

A Christian is a follower with a goal of unity with Christ.

For me, its simple. Nothing more is needed.

You know, looking at them under the "friends" section - the one where they're all in overalls - they look like some characters from the movie Deliverance.

I cannot imagine anyone thinking these hayseeds on some friggin' plantation in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi are even remotely spiritual, or qualified, or know or have any clue what's best for anyone's life. This is absolutely pathetic.

Why would anyone put themselves in thier hands?????

Young VP2P's smiling all over the place. Why? Because they've talked him into believing he is the next prophet, carrying on the old man's legacy. I see the same arrogance, aren't I special as I saw in LCM. He thinks he's the new MOG for this day and time.

The kid's a star!

Sorry, that house doesn't do anything for me. Its bare, devoid of life, with all the little fundy pics and posters. Just - ugh.

The kid is their puppet. He has no clue. He's the front for the old dudes in overalls. This is pathetic. Run, run far away...

That's just awesome Excie, what a great thing to do for her!

I think we sometimes look at this concept of hell from the wrong perspective.

Its not about us. Really, its not about you and me.

Its about God.

I think, he has told us, there is a day coming when he will dwell with mankind and his creation.

He tells us all of creation is in turmoil and waits for that day.

God is Holy, Righteous and Just.

I believe, the realm, or dimension, or whatever the new "creation" that he promises to create, will possibly require a different type of physical body than we have now.

In his home, there is no sin. As now, in the heavens where he dwells with his other creations, there is no sin. And they have different bodies. Bodies suitable for that habitat and state or dimension.

He has offered us Heaven.

He has offered us perfection.

He has offered us new bodies.

He has promised to make us a new creation.

Those who wish not to be with him and who are not born again cannot be "regenerated" so to speak, when we shall be changed into a new heavenly creation. They cannot be regenerated or changed because they have not Holy Spirit.

God offers us Heaven. He says you only need to do one thing - only ONE thing: believe in Him who he sent.

I think he has told us what's coming. Some don't like it, that's your perogative.

I think we humans are like tin soldiers. Thier owner says, I can make you alive! The tin soldiers are afraid of the new world, new body, to be a new creation, and say, no thanks.

I think from God's perspective, he's told us what's coming, took the time to come down to to die for us and bring us to Him. We may not like God's plan that Heaven and perfection are coming and that's fine.

God is Love. He cannot dwell in harmony with "not love." Not in his home.

If I have a house, and next door is a thief, will I invite him to dwell with me? Of course not.

God will not have his habitation the home of unrighteousness. He deals with it in Revelation.

I think of Hell, as a place where God is not.

God has honored your free will, you can be without him.

I shudder to think of a place without God and rampant unchecked egos running wild. I think those in that place will be able to see Him and see the glory they chose to forego. I think that's the cause of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Love of God/Hate for God, just two sides of the same coin.

Oh, did hell have any effect on me? No. When I didn't believe I could have cared less about it. It didn't even make me indignant. I didn't care, and wondered why anyone else would. It was much easier to believe I would be no more. I think it was the thought of living eternally, after I was born again that made me wonder about these things. It was love that got me born again, not hell.

Plus, our "vision" of hell has been grossly distorted by Dante's Inferno. His made up version of what he thought Hell should be. You should read it. Its amazing. Everything you've ever heard about hell springs from that man's imagination. Basically today, when people think of hell they are thinking of Dante and his medieval imagery, which is quite horrid.

Hi Newlife. I have a friend who is a phlebotomist (sic), who draws blood for a living. She is a new Christian and it makes totally, perfect sense to her that the life is in the blood. She started going on about how it carries oxegen, it does this and that - she definitely knows her topic.

From God's Word, he places a huge amount of importance on blood, for reasons I don't understand, but he does. God says it cleanses, it makes pure, it has a voice and cries from the ground, it is used as an atonement for sin in lieu of a man's life, but mostly, it cleanses and washes.

Adam's blood was created by God - was perfect. Adam was a totally "new creation" of God's. No one, or anything like him had ever before been created. I believe he was an earthly shadow, or type, of a Heavenly being.

Christ, as the second "Adam" - the one who would redeem mankind from their error or separation from God, or sin as its also called, must also have had "perfect" blood.

We read, when Christ was killed and he was ordered to death by the high priest Pilate, he was in actuality the atoning lamb, the lamb who's spilled blood atoned for sin. His spilt blood now cleanses us and washes us when we believe.

When he rose, his blood cleansed the heavenly temple and places that had been defiled by the adversary (Hebrews).

To redeem mankind, as the second Adam, Christ's blood had to be as pure as the first Adam's. Christ's blood had to be a new creation of God. Merely human blood would never have been sinless or righteous enough to pay for man's separation from God and to wash mankind of its sin. Mankind is a fallen race, its blood polluted.

I love the verse, "A body thou hast prepared me" speaking of Christ. The body he inhabited on earth was made for him by God, as was Adam's made for him also.

But, the blood is holy, pure, cleaning, washing - someday we'll know why and understand it from God's perspective and not ours.

Keith, you make a great point and aren't belittling Kris at all. Many of us saw weird "red flags" and, I guess it was cognitive dissonance, and thought, nah... that can't be...

I think she was young, VP had his sights on her and there was no way he was going to let her leave. Later, once he had used her, he didn't want to let her go because she was an initiate, a "special" one, one who could wear his ring. I think if he had lived and kept his health and Kris still hadn't "gotten it together" VP would have thrown her out, told everyone she was possessed, and it would have been as though she had never existed in TWI. She was young and he manipulated her masterfully.

I was able to figure pretty much who most of the characters were she wrote about. We know what's up with CG, it would be interesting to hear some of the others take and where they are now.

Your daughter is absolutely beautiful Jonny! Props to you and Mrs. Lingo. I imagine she's the apple of your eye. Nothing like a proud dad!

Brushstroke, TWI believes this about Jesus:

1. He was with God in His foreknowledge, i.e., he was not co-eternal. But God knew he'd someday make him in Mary's womb.

2. He was born of Mary, a virgin. He was sinless, His flesh was perfect.

3. He had a Perfectly Renewed Mind (because of being perfect) - He walked flawlessly with God because: His mind was perfectly renewed (i.e. - thought the Word only)

3. When baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit came upon Him.

So, He was: Perfect man, with Holy Spirit upon Him.

We could be like him if we renewed our minds like he did, and believed God like he did. He could believe God because of his perfect mind and Holy Spirit.

Since we have Holy Spirit in us when born again, we are like him in this world, and there is no reason we could not walk like him and do the same things he did and eventually, become as him is - if we could just renew our minds.

When he was raised from the dead is the first time He and God actually met.

Very interesting. I have never heard that. If its true, of course it would be kept hush-hush - don't want the man of gawd for the world looking like an idiot and doing something stupid like most humans do now and then.

I knew JRR when he was on staff his interim year, then in residence at the same place. He was one of the most nicest, sweetest people in TWI I have ever met. He had truly what we called back then, a great heart. He was also one of the meekest and humble men in residence. He was just a sweet, wonderful guy. I always wondered how the heck he ended up on the BOT - seriously.

But, he didn't last long and was let go due to "health reasons." I never believed that was the whole truth. I believe he was not mean enough to survive RFR, and was probably too honest and wouldn't go along with something or other. From what I know of JRR, I would tend to believe his account.

I mean, all of a sudden, there had never been any talk of a diseased eye, no calls for prayer, etc. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, VP arrives home one lovely sunny weekend with no eye? I always thought that was strange.

I always did wonder how he avoided the draft in WWII.

Do I think he was a card carrying Nazi? No. I think he was very sympathetic of them though. He was more of a white supremist I think.

But, if he had lived in Germany under Hitler, I think he would have been one of the first to enroll and put on the uniform. He would have been a proud Nazi I think..

Tom, I'm not "decrying any fact" that someone is not a trinitarian. In fact, I could care less if they are or they aren't. Truly, I don't care. Your walk is not my walk. I worry about my relationship with God, I don't need someone else worrying about it for me, like back in TWI.

I respect you too, but I've noticed since you've returned, you've been reading a lot into people's posts that simply are not there. One person you totally pounced on and I still couldn't figure out for what.

You need to knock it off. I think you read way too much into my post. I stated my opinion.

I am not "decrying" if anyone believes in the trinity or not.

I see, that TWI grossly neglected to see, that Christ had a divinity to him.

That's my opinion, and, what I believed God showed me.

We are all individuals, he will show us in his time in various ways.

But don't read into post things that aren't there.

I know this subject gets people's emotions all riled. That's probably why it hasn't been discussed in the last couple of years.

When I was on staff at HQ and he came back with his eye having been removed, and greeted us at lunch, it was also very obvious he'd had a stroke. One side of his face was frozen and that side of his mouth couldn't smile. He kind of waved and sat down, didn't say much.

I remarked to someone at my table, he's also had a stroke, and they reproved me. Since most of us were young, they wouldn't know what a stroke victim looked like. That's why no one realized he'd had one. He recovered over time.

What I think is very interesting, is that so many people in TWI who were Christians and left, is that most of them over the years have become Trinitarian, and have seen (by God's enlightening of them I believe) that Christ was divine. He had a divinity.

VP's trashing of Christ's divinity did TWI people a massive disservice. Mainly, because reading JCING, you realize VP had no concept of the trinity, which he mocked many times in his teachings. All he could do is mock - which is what the followers do today. TWI followers blindly believe this one book, over any other book VP ever wrote.

Christ was "Emmanuel" - God with us.

Just as God dwelt upon the earth with Israel in the Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, so, Christ was the LIVING Tabernacle, on earth. He was the Holy of Holies.

He was the "fullness of the Godhead bodily." He was the fullness of God walking, dwelling among men, on earth.

He was the Logos of the universe, the Word, made flesh.

He created the world and everything in it, and remarked on this in John to his disciples, yet, he was rejected by Israel.

Those who saw him have seen the Father.

VP denied that Christ [Emmanuale - God with us] was "come in the flesh." He warped that scripture.

Christ talked about he glory he had with the father before his incarnation in the "body thou hast prepared me" when on earth.

Peter, John, and James saw him in his amazing, glory at the transfiguration and fell down.

Does a Christian need to believe Christ had a divinity? No. But, I believe they will never see the greatness of what was done for them.

He's more than a "bro."

Well, I probably shouldn't have phrased it, that it became an "in" thing to do.

But I do know, that many people did believe if they died, they would have a "better" resurrection, and I can see how a Christian would think martyrdom offered the most, and ultimate "rewards" and would run to do it. Don't we see the same thing today in other religions?

I forget where I read it, but there were many, many Christians, looking for martyrdom. That said, they did go through a wave of 10 awful persecutions in the first century and are still being killed today. Just like many of us "ran to serve" - so, I think many Christians "ran to die."

I don't know, I need to find more info on it.

But I find it interesting, where martyrdom is talked about in Hebrews, it was prophets, and men who spoke for God martyred. Maybe that's something to study.

Awhile ago I was interested in this and did some reading. I was surprised, besides Foxes Book of Martyrs, there's not a whole lot written about it.

I heard VP say Stephen, who was stoned to death in acts, was "tired" of living and thus wasn't able to believe to be delivered. So, since martyrdom is the antithesis of the "abundant life" promised by PFAL and VP, and didn't gibe with his "health and wealth" gospel too well, I can see why VP would blame martyrdom on the believer's lack of believing, its the martyr's fault.

I also think, yes, there are people who were/are martyred who had no business being martyred.

From what I have gleaned, true martyrdom has a result. In some way, it opens doors and moves the Word so to speak. Unbelievers see it and are changed by it. In other words, there is a purpose for it, it is almost a "calling" so to speak. That person's death has a huge impact and changes things.

From what I've also read those who were called to be martyrs, like anyone, are first afraid, then, its almost like they have been graced somehow - they are able to go their deaths looking up, at Him, and almost look forward to it - to be with Christ. I do think its a calling, and if you are to be a martyr, God will tell you and prepare you.

Many people die "for God" but it is not a true "martyr" situation. I think there's a distinction in there somewhere.

I read a sad account by a Roman centurion. His group was in charge of martyring the Christians. He finally wrote to the General, or some big honcho and basically said, why are we doing this again? Remind me. He said, they stand there, men, women, children and do nothing to defend themselves and just let his men butcher them. It was getting to him - killing innocent, helpless people. I don't think their religion mattered to him, it was killing these people, who were like sheep and didn't fight back. I imagine after awhile, you just feel like a murderer. He then wrote, but, if its your will, of course I shall continue on...

I would imagine God called those people to live. It almost I think, at one point, martyrdom became the "in" thing to do and people who had no business being martyred joined the crowd.

I think true martyrdom is a calling very few people are called to do in this administration. In the next, it will be different. Almost anyone who does believe will be martyred.

Hi Dot! I've really enjoyed the NIV Study Bible. It has great notes on the verses. That's been my mainstay for years now.

Yes Penguin, it is amazing what we can learn, and how the scriptures can open to us after taking a break - for some a few years. But, we had so much Bible thrown at us, I think God doesn't mind us taking a "break" and getting back to regular living, and teaching us what he would like to teach us, in our own timeframe.

Peter pulls no punches, does he? I like Peter. He, John and James, were the only ones ever to see the Lord in his full glory (the transfiguration). It was conveniently skipped by VP, yet, I love reading that account. Yet, the transfiguration never left Peter - it blew his mind and changed his life. He knew who Christ really was and what he would be. It boggled his mind and changed his life, he mentions it a few times. I think Peter was able to see beyond the here and now, he had a much bigger picture in mind.

I think I, II, III John, I and II Peter, and Jude are written specifically to those of us living in the last days so to speak, before the gathering and the tribulation kicks in. They are warnings so to speak, the times are getting worse, keep yourselves as a glory to Christ.

Hello Dot, what a wonderful post. I know when I left TWI, I just put my Bible down for a long time, a couple of years.

But, the first thing I learned when I went back was: Christ.

TWI never taught us Christ. We were taught about this Jesus who was human like we are and had an extra dose of Holy Spirit.

It was John 1:1-4 that opened my eyes - Christ was God's Tabernacle, or Temple, on earth - Christ was God with us. The Word was God, the WORD WAS MADE FLESH. Whoa... that blew my little mind.

Christ not only had humanity, he was divine.

I did a word study - He is the apokalypse - the unveiler - literally - the one who takes away the veil.

TWI never taught us that. He was a character up in the sky, coming back someday, so, no need really to talk with him and let Him into your heart today.

Christ opens our eyes and enlightens our hearts - He is, the unveiler.

Its not the Word, or teachers - its Christ. That's who teaches us.

Ask Him to teach you. Just things, it doesn't necessarily have to be "the Word."

When he becomes our center, our life, as we are his, He opens our eyes and we have no need that anyone teach us.

I just think TWI's biggest tragedy is it did not teach us Christ - in all of his Glory or divinity. We wouldn't want Christ to steal Wierwille's thunder now, would we?

I remember Del Duncan speaking years ago. He said, why should any Christian be afraid of a devil spirit?? He said, they should be the ones quaking and shaking when they ran into us - Sons of God. I still agree with that today.

He talked about how he went to meet Anton Zander LaVey - the head of the Satanic church, and the guy literally cringed just being around Del and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. That's neither here nor there, but the point is, yes, Christ overcame for us. He has delivered us from the Adversary's kingdom and all of his little hosts here. Just as Michael said, the Lord rebuke you, we can do the same.

But, I have a feeling most of us, if we ever did run into a "real" devil spirit would faint. Actually, today, I think most of your real cases of possession, are in mental institutions, like the guy in the tombs. People can't deal with them and they are put away.

I don't think Judas was there at Pentecost. I don't have my Bible with me now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it says straightway he went and hanged himself. Also, Peter, before Pentecost, met with the disciples and said, we need to choose someone to take his place, he called him the one appointed to destruction - something like that. So, they chose Mathias to take his place. Then we see the 12 - with Mathias - at Pentecost. Judas wasn't there.

I think an interesting point is, Jesus knew who Judas was. Yet, he loved him as the other disciples, let him carry the money, gave him every chance to repent, gave him the sop, signifying his love to him, at the last supper, i.e., treated him with loving kindness. Yet, man's heart can be hard and hateful against God. Judas refused the love of the Son of God and went out and betrayed him. What more could Christ have done?

If you read the Gospels (which VP discouraged), its very interesting to see exactly what it is that Jesus preaches. His main preaching is this: The Kingdom of God is coming. Believe on me, and freely enter in. Israel would not, yet we do see the Kingdom fulfilled in Revelation.

But the point is, I believe there is a new world, new kingdom coming. We can scoff, as Peter says in I or II Peter, but it will happen. Not everyone will enter. Judas rejected the offer.

As far as I know, when Satan needed to make sure something was done right, he so far has entered into/enters into only two people - Judas (to make sure the Messiah is killed, so the Kingdom cannot come, so Satans rule will never end); and the Antichrist to come - the Beast.

But no one can say Christ did not give Judas every opportunity to come to him.

Its SCIENCE. Who am I to argue. I've been interested in astronomy, stars, planets, and universe since I was a kid with my large tripod telescope, finding the constellations, planets, etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS is, no, probably not. The more they learn, the more they are seeing, probably not. There are other planets, but there must also be certain, exact factors, for life to happen. We seem to be a unique random accident. It will be interesting to see what Mars has.

If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.