Sunesis

Chas - LOL!!!!! Actually, alas, I cannot show you my Girl Scout card because I got thrown out. Yes I did. I did earn quite a few merit badges though :)

Teachme, I was at the fellowship where that pic of Kris was taken and put on the cover of Life. I was with two of my high school friends, we were in Tim Bishop's living room and the photographer was snapping away while Steve Heefner was teaching. I was sitting just 2 or 3 people away from Kris. We all thought we'd be in Life Magazine!!!! You must realize, that back then, being in Life is like an appearance on American Idol today - it was a huge deal. It was America's magazine. Imagine everyone's disappointment when none of us except Kris were in the pics. I think there were a couple of other shots from the living room twig, but none of most of the fellowship. Also, remember, those "little" twigs routinely had 30 or more kids crammed in the living room, so there was lots to photograph.

I keep meaning to respond to your doctrinal thread, I will. Its just been busy.

Oh, yes, my avatar scares the guys and keeps them in line down in the basement in the political forum :)

Ahh... Those two names are a blast from the past Socks! I didn't know you were a fisher - and didn't know St. Mary's lake had catfish. Sounds like you had some fun times. Its always interesting, all the things staffers did, apart from their jobs, that HQ or leadership never knew about. Sounds like we both operated on the same principle (as taught to my by J# B#lt early in my corps training): Its easier to get forgiveness then to get permission.

I traveled a long ways on that proverb.

Cool - it wasn't just me. I thought maybe I was being punished or something :(

I just gave you a boost Wordwolf!

So where did the little green plus "reputation" button go in my own posts? Does this mean someone can't give me a little green thingie anymore if they like my post?

I can see it in other people's posts, but not mine :(

Yes Socks! That was it. I loved that lake, plus it had a lovely huge park all around it.

I really liked it a lot better than Lake St. Marys and it was less crowded.

Wow - its sure changed since I was on staff there in the early '80s.

I lived off grounds, in the summer, spend my afternoons at Lake St. Mary's or the one only the locals know about, in Minster. Or, some of us would go for motorcycle rides.

Many parties off grounds... Many clubs still around.

We pretty much did what we wanted in our off time. I took a class at Wright State for which I was reimbursed if I got a B or more, but I scheduled it after work, on Wed. evenings, so I was back, but it was just a little too late to go to corps night so I got to watch it on tv in the comfort of my trailer - hee hee.

So, are you telling me, my favorite club to dance the night away on Friday or Saturday - Night Moves in Wapakoneta - just 15 minutes away - is closed???? I loved it, many of us went there. We danced, drank and partied. We also kept it a secret, we didn't want the HQ leadership finding out about it.

But, I would also advise - run!!! The reason we partied was to self-medicate and forget where we were...

Well, sounds like the word's out - don't go on staff!!! Darn this internet thingy.

But - that means the poor people stuck there will be working longer and longer to make up.

Get out now...

Well power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I was friends with a couple of her sisters and they told me both her and LCM's parents were opposed to LCM being made president of TWI. They felt they were way too young for that kind of power and money that would be coming their way.

Sounds like the moms and dads were right.

But, I can think of one incident, near the time I fled HQ and staff, where the hardness of heart was starting to become quite evident.

Glad you got out!

I agree with Excie - Donna had a lot of compassion for people.

Now she sounds like a petty little tyrant with a seared conscience.

If you could get her out of there and away from Rosie for a few years, she'd become a totally different person - probably the one she once was.

Erkjohn, is there a problem?

Teachme, good thoughts, I will read and digest and get back to you. :)

Great to see you again Socks!!!!

Teachme, I really enjoyed your articles and I thought I’d put my thoughts down in one place on them.

1. First, Lucifer was a Cherub – the one who covered, the guardian. He was part of the Cherubum type beings. I think that fits thenin better with dealing with the intense light.

2. When it says he walked among the stones of fire, many people think that is talking about planets, I do not. Note one of his functions was as a priest. He was the mediator between God and the angelic creation.

Like a Priest, he wore a breastplate that had 9 stones on it.

Note, Aaron, as Priest, wore a breastplate/ephod, with 12 stones on it.

I believe Aaron and the 12 tribes of Israel were a representation on earth of the Heavenly, angelic tribes. Just as Angels are the “host of heaven” so Israel was God’s “host” on earth.

3. Lucifer had sanctuaries – sacred places. He defiled those holy sanctuaries. He did violence to them and corrupted them. How does one defile and utterly corrupt holiness?

4. I like your picture of light in the 1st heaven. I call, or think of that light as “God’s Glory.” It is a place, where God, who only dwelleth in the light that no man can see.

a. I like the concept of the earth now being enclosed – enclosed in the 2nd heaven, or what we would now know today as our Universe. I believe in the universe, there is a veil that literally separates this universe and closes us off from the light of this Glory.

b. I believe in the “new heaven and earth” the reason there will be no sun, moon, stars, universe is because we will no longer be enclosed in this universe. The veil, or curtain will be removed, or pulled back, and, as it was in the 1st heaven, God’s light of this glory will again fill all of eternity – our present enclosure will no longer be needed.

5. Regarding Lucifer’s rebellion, I differ from you in that I believe he rebelled before Gen. 1:2. I think Gen 1:2 on is a restoration of the earth. God turns on the light, and restores the earth, encases it in our universe (thus, making sun, moon, stars, etc.) – then puts material creation, flora and fauna upon it, then eventually Adam and Eve upon it, in a sanctuary, an eden, again, a type of heavenly sanctuary/God’s Garden. Adam is now to rule and mediate between God and earthly creation, as Lucifer had done over the spiritual domain.

6. In Gen. 1:2, when the earth, via Lucifer’s cataclysmic rebellion became without form and void – waste and dark, it was then I believe God said – go ahead, you want to be the creator – restore it. Lucifer is not a creator and could not. He was humiliated in front of the heavenly host.

7. I believe Lucifer enticed the Angels into falling by offering them something that they did not have. Ask yourself – what could wonderful, powerful spiritual beings possibly want that God did not provide for them? What was God possibly “denying” them (according to Lucifer)? Answer: A body. A sentient, feeling body so they could literally “feel.” I will leave it to you to think about what those bodies could have been – I have some ideas.

8. But, the previous paragraph is also why I believe God requires his redeemed creation - you and me - to begin in the flesh first, then receive a spiritual body. Why? Because, in eternity, if God does create new material beings someday, His redeemed, spiritual, new creation will NOT be tempted to rebel and inhabit a body, as I believe the angels that fell did. We will have “been there, done that.”

9. I believe the Temple pattern God gave to Israel, His earthly Host, illustrates for them and us, the reality of the universe and place of Glory that now is.

a. The large outer court of the temple represents our universe, the court illustrates our enclosure on earth in the present universe – where the earth is now encased.

b. The innermost sanctum of the temple, the “holy of holies” is the place of Glory where God, who is light dwells, on the mercy seat – his throne, covered by the cherubim. I think there is a literal veil somewhere in the universe that divides our universe from this Light.

c. Christ rent the veil on earth in the Temple when he was resurrected symbolizing we now have access into the presences of God in glory, we are no longer cordoned off – someday we will all dwell in his light, but for now, the veil in the universe is still “stretched out as a curtain” until the new heaven and earth are revealed. Then, the veil will be removed, there will be no more universe and the Earth will dwell in the glory of the light that lights eternity.

Anyway, your posts were great food for thought. I basically disagreed on the time frame of Satan’s rebellion but other than that, I really enjoyed them. Thanks for sharing.

Ductape, I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. I can just hear him - hey - I ain't queer - look at all the womens I sc*&w! Not me - uh uh - I ain't no homo perv...

What a horrible, nasty thing the purge was.

Now, I can't believe he's in an efficiency apt. when Rosie has a house, the Bidens have/had that lovely place - I can't believe LCM didn't hold out for a nice house and "pension."

Well, congratulations on getting out! That's what this site is for :) Hang out, share, and I guarantee you you'll feel a lot better about things in time. You weren't the only one who got hurt by TWI, but in the beginning - it can shake up your world with thoughts of, how could I have let this happen??? Hey, it happened to all of us. There is nothing wrong with you. You loved God and wanted to serve him - that counts for something.

When I left, one of my favorite verses was in Joel: God will repay the years the locusts have eaten. That was a tremendous promise and blessing to me.

I also, didn't pick up the Bible for a long time. Eventually over time, months, I had some thoughts and ideas come to me and some things I started to look at in the Bible - when I look back, it was the Holy Spirit teaching me, my first steps away from TWI doctrine - and God teaching me - not man - what I needed to know for my life personally.

So, now, if you have to just put it all down and lay it aside - sometimes you just have to put yourself in neutral.

The only one who can really teach you if there is a God or not, or a Christ or not is God.

But, over the years, I have found, that with the Holy Spirit, we can see Christ - just as if he were here in the flesh so to speak.

As to your question - who really knows Jesus Christ? I used to wonder, while I was in TWI - just what the heck believers outside of TWI meant when they talked about their "personal" relationship with Christ.

Now, I know.

It was not until leaving TWI though. Sure, we loved "God" and the "Word" - but - and here's TWI's great harm it did to the believer - we never knew Christ.

We never knew Christ.

In TWI, the Word took the place of the "Absent Christ." That was a lie - he is not absent - He walks among the Churchs (Rev.), and will reveal himself to you if you ask him too.

But, all in time. As I said, I just had to put it all down, take a break, get your life, job, housing - just get your life going again.

After years in TWI - its time to now take care of HappyGay :)

LOL! Yes, I'm sure it was a long walk :)

Looking forward to your next installment.

I think LCM is terrified of it - probably for good reason - we all know about the guys who yell the loudest about a topic are covering for their attraction to it. That's one possibility.

The other is, I really think, he found about about his wife and Rosie and was enraged and had to direct that anger somewhere...

That was very cool! I enjoyed. Now, also realize, its also there in that realm, that the church of the one body, the "new creation" - the church of the mystery revealed to Paul, was purposed, planned for, and called, and there too is where they will abide.

Israel was not called until the earth and mankind were made. They were called to represent the "fleshly" side of man, now and in eternity on the earth.

Did you write that yourself?

People ask, where does God dwell. We know he dwells above the heavens, in light and in a place called glory.

But, to illustrate to Israel, he gave them the temple and its layout. Its layout shows us where he lives.

You have the large outer court: The heavens - spaces, stars, universe.

The inner holy of holies: Glory. Above the heavens - in the light. Covered by Cherubim - God's dwelling place. The High priest could enter once a year.

Christ entered for eternity and still sits there, in glory, above the heavens, at God's right hand.

One body - new creation - will also dwell there for eternity, above the heavenlies in Glory.

Awesome.

Thanks for that sharing.

Ahh... Its good to be me!

I see an arrogant, we are special - you are slave - mentality in this pic.

They were on top of the world.

I used to have dreams like others here had when I left TWI, but over the years, they've left. After reading all of Karl Jung and much of Freud's writings for fun after I left TWI, I even kept a journal of my dreams. But the dreams are very common anxiety dreams. Many of us left everything we knew and people we loved - it takes a while to come to grips with and can definitely be anxious times for us and our dreams reflect that in their own strange way.

Come to think of it, isn't it amazing the Weirwilles all dying of cancer.

Yes, "Uncle" Harry did like to stick his tongue down the girls' mouths. There were quite a few surprised ladies.

Teachme, I believe every creature of God has, and will have, a body. There are bodies terrestial and bodies celestial, many differnt types of bodies - the heavens are teeming with angels, archangels, elders, Cherubum and others I'm sure. They are all blessed with what they are and made that way to fulfill a function God has given them.

That's why I think even the earthly eternal bodies of Israel will be different than the eternal bodies of the "remnant" of Jews who go in and out of the "heavenly Jerusalem" and maybe those making up the body of the Bride will be a bit different. But, does it really matter? But all as pleases God. Earthly, heavenly, does it matter? We will be blessed :)

Teachme, I believe you are correct. Here are my thoughts on it - just thoughts - true or not? Who knows, I'll find out someday.

I was reading one of the Gospels (I forget which one now) a few years ago, where Jesus told Thomas to touch and handle him. We know, Christs resurrected body did not have blood, he was now "powered" so to speak, by spirit - which I believe we all will be someday. But, who was he talking to, who did he show himself too? The Jews.

Then it "hit me" so to speak - an aha moment - it was, oh - he is showing Israel, the Jewish people, what their resurrected bodies will look like. That was a "whoa..." moment for me. Because, also remember, Peter, John and James had seen him transfigured (while in his human, non-resurrected body) and had seen God's glory and the light in Christ's body. It was a profound moment Peter never forgot and mentions quite a bit.

But, anyway, I believe the resurrected Lord, who appeared to the Apostles and let him touch and handle him, was showing them their eternal, resurrected bodies to come.

But, since Israel inherits the new earth, God has populated "Glory" with a group also. I believe those in Union with Christ, members of the "one new CREATION" (yes, it will be a totally new creation - we have no idea what it will look like - just that it will be a totally "new creation" come into being) will have a different body - something made to dwell in Glory, in the heavenlies, as Christ's "new" body, Christ's heavenly vehicle so to speak. To dwell in light, those in that body in that sphere will have a some what different body than those on the earth or the New Jerusalem. So it seems to me.

Just thoughts.

But I agree, all, everything will be animated by, engergized by - Spirit - or Power.

Ephesians says we have this power now - when we are born again. I think we do not comprehend what is really dwelling within us - but it energizes and animates our flesh somehow. How, I do not know. But, it is powerful enough to meet spiritual wickedness and defeat it via prayer.

I have always found it interesting that the Catholic Church were avid followers of the 12 apostles. Apostolic succession was, and still is, very important to them. They were not followers of Paul.

Thus, you see the Catholics have built their earthly kingdom and at various stages have tried to rule the known world - because they have appropriated Israel's hope (you shall inherit the earth) for their own and applied it to the church of the grace administration.

I have often wondered what Christianity would be like today if they had followed Paul's revelation.

Although, in some ways, that's what was so revolutionary about Luther. He rejected much of the Catholic doctrine. But the problem with Protestantism is you have literally, almost 33,000 denominations - while the Catholics chug along with only one body.

Augustine was a Pauline follower, so were several other early "church fathers" but later, the leadership reverted back to following the 12 apostles and taking the doctrine that was meant for Israel and applying it to the church of the one body.

Interesting food for thought. If they had stuck with Paul, would there have been a crusades? Would there be "warriors" for Christ? Paul taught after the Mystery had been revealed we are to "stand" against the wiles of the adversary and pray - we have been given power to do that - not go out and kill and convert and rule the world (as Israel will do under Christ someday when he returns - see what happens when doctrine gets mixed up?).

If Paul had been followed and people realized their hope was in heaven, would they be going on crusades or inquisitions killing people? Would they not have realized earthly government is just that - earthly government - man trying to keep order. There is nothing spiritual about it. Sometimes we get good ones, sometimes evil ones. We can read the OT to see everything from judges to Kings to Moses - differing types of governments, then ancient rome, greek - Emperors, etc. Man experiments.

I tend to think there is a difference in result depending which view you follow. If you follow Israel's hope - as was made available for Gentiles to be grafted into, you know the earth will be yours someday, so why not try and make as much of it as you can yours - now? If there had been no revelation of that mystery - that would be the logical way to go - follow the commission of the apostles. Many people have this.

If you understand that Israel has been put in abeyance and God and Christ are dealing with the Gentile and one new creation in this age, and our home is heavenly - would we not be a bit more gentle and forgiving as Christians as we look up - to the heavens, instead of to the earth?

Just food for thought.

Teachme, I believe the "something better" in Hebrews 11:40 was the coming Kingdom on earth promised in the OT and the better city, the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked for. There will be the heavenly Jerusalem descending to earth.

I love the book of Hebrews - its an amazing book on our Savior and what he did. Hebrews was written to the Jew and Gentile showing Christ as High Priest.

Here's a list somewhere you may like, I forgot where I got it, but I've kept it in the back of my bible over the last few years.

I. Kingdom Offered - the gospels "Repent, for the Kingdom is at Hand."

II. Kingdom Re-offered to Israel - Acts. The re-offer was ended at Acts 28:28 because, "He came unto His own and His own received him not."

During Acts:

A. Epistles written by the Apostles to the Jews only:

James - Works as outcome of faith

I Peter - Suffering and Glory

II Peter - Prophecy and Day of the Lord

I John - Fellowship

II John - The Truth

III John - Hospitality

B. Epistles written by Paul to Jew and Gentile - during time of RE-offer to Israel. The Gentiel is grafted in, the middle wall in the temple is still,

literally up.

The Jew is First ("To the Jew First")

Romans - Justification by faith - Jew and Gentile

I Corinthians - Carnality and spiritual things

II Corinthians - Ministry and comfort

Galations - Cross of Christ

I Thessalonians - the Coming (Parousia)

II Thessalonians - The revelation from Heaven

Hebrews - Christ as High Priest

III. Kingdom held in abeyance - Acts 28:28 until the "Lord's Day" (Book of Revelation). Israel blinded, Salvation sent to Gentiles.

A. Gospel of the Dispensation of the Mystery

To Gentiles - who's hope is in the heavenlies, or literally, "above the heavens" in "Glory" This truth not found in Moses, prophets, nor in

ministries of Christ or the 12.

Ephesians - In Christ - Heavenly citizenship, blessings and walk

Philippians - Christ within, prize of the High calling

Colossians - Complete in him, Christ as the Head

I Timothy - Doctrine and Godliness

II Timothy - The Crown - these last days (of the grace administration)

Titus - Soundness, Hope

Philemon - Christian Forgiveness.

IV. Kingdom Accepted. The Day of the Lord. From Israel's repentence to the deliverance of the Kingdom to the Father. Promise of life fulfilled.

Ends in New Heaven and New Earth in which dwells righteousness.

Revelation. All prophecy fulfilled. Completes the beginning of Genesis. We now step off into eternity... :)

This is just a list I found somewhere, but I kind of like it. Do I agree with all of it - no, but its a handy little guide and outline. Hope you enjoy it Teachme.