WordWolf

BTW, Mike? It's not only dishonest to keep painting the posters as if they think vpw had no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and was continuous, unrelieved evil. That's just not true. We've discussed that in threads. I even did a poll- zero people agreed with that position. We've also discussed him with his positive traits as well- I started a thread once specifically to do just that. Lying about people while calling THEM liars is never the way to get people on your side. I'm sure you're unable to process any of that, but that makes it no less true.

Translation- Mike has worn out his welcome everywhere else. He hasn't been banned from the GSC. So, he posts here. BTW, Mike keeps refusing to take responsibility for his posting. He was never grabbed off the street, gagged and tied up, and driven somewhere. He was not "kidnapped" here. The "long story" is a short story. Someone who Mike had sent a communication to said "can you believe the b.s. some people spread? This is what I got in the mail" and posted some of Mike's manifestos. Mike then showed up and tried to defend his nonsense. That would be a "long story" if Mike was telling it. BTW. Mike? The internet is like anywhere else. You can get disagreements and so on. You choose to come here, knowing we know you're posting nonsense and will call you on it. So, don't pretend to be shocked when it happens. It's a natural by-product of going somewhere and starting controversy. If you don't want static for adoring wierwille, don't go where wierwille survivors post. If you don't want to get called on how error-ridden his work was, and how little was done by him, don't post where people know his history. Between all the static you get called on around here, I wonder if the staff have wondered whether it is even cost-effective to let you go on for pages and pages and pages, and keep getting refuted, since everything adds up.

You forget, we are all aware of you revering wierwille. He was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", he was "overgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook."

waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure. Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success." -------------------------------------- skyrider: "When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident? For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?" Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982? Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention." =========================================================== skyrider: "What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh. He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe). YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles. The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on? Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man." ------------------------------------------------ =========================================================== Charity: "On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day. " ==================================================== So crates: "So you're saying Saint Vic was most in fellowship when he was being a phony, being hypocritical, and when he was ripping off other people's work. SMH. " ===================================================== skyrider: "TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt." ======================================================= OldSkool: "wierwille's concept of in/out of fellowship are comical. It was as if you could do whatever you wanted as long as your believing wasnt compromised and you were acting out of love. It's almost like you could be in fellowship, and that would equate to standing under a flood light, and then be out of fellowhip, and that would equate to standing out of the floodlight in the dark. What kind of non-sensical garbage is that...because meanwhile the sinful and destructive behavior never stopped with wierwille. It didn't stop with martindale. It didnt stop with rosalile because she covered it all up, spending vast sums of donations on lawyer fees and out of court settlements. Bottom line is when you ask for forgiveness it's accompanied by the fruits meet for repentance, as John The Baptist stated. In other words, the sinful actions stop and there is a corresponding change of heart that led to the action in the first place so the action isn't repeated. Ive never come across any indication of that sort of thing with wierwille...check this.. wierwille taught martindale to be a sexual predator. Theoretically, had wierwille truly repented his repentance would have been followed with him addressing the ministry (or something similar) appropriately so they no longer think his former sinful ways are justifiabally correct. Maybe mike can find proof of wierwille doint this sort of thing in one of his files, but Ive never seen any indication of a change from any of the top honchos...wierwille, martindale, rosalie who was involved never publicly repented...etc. " ================================ There were entire threads relevant to this. One was skyrider's "To the very end- Wierwille's Wantonness." https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24239-to-the-very-endwierwilles-wantonness/

So, the ridiculous idea on the table right now is that one can take the same man, a serial criminal, a serial sinner, rapist, molester, simonist, drunkard, and view him as God's Spokesman because there's no direct connection in his life between the sinning and the preaching, so God Almighty is ok with COMPARTMENTALIZING a man's life so that a career criminal is acceptable as the spokesman for God Almighty. Well, you'd think a claim like that would have a verse to try to quote, except that concept's far from the Bible. How about a claim that you know God Almighty is cool with that because the criminal did a bunch of Mighty Miracles in between the rapes and so on, so we know God was energizing the miracles in between and seems complicit with the criminal's evil deeds? Well, the best we get, when asked, is that he was a "success" when you focused exclusively on his "new man nature." Does this mean miracles? No, when asked, the best we got was that the teachings were really good. So, we know the criminal was doing God's work because the man produced some good teachings. But that's not proof of ANYTHING! All the good stuff is KNOWN to have been PLAGIARIZED. It was the work of a holy photocopy machine! But on the basis of some good teachings, we're supposed to give a free pass to an alcoholic rapist to commit all sorts of sins and crimes on the ministry dime.

Ok, so vpw was a pervert, a drunkard, a liar, a rapist, a plagiarist, and other criminally-bar things, to say nothing of how Biblically bad and sinful those things were. Someone tried to COMPARTMENTALIZE the life of vpw. So, when vpw was in a private place raping, that was "his old man nature." An hour later, when he was at the podium teaching, vpw's "new man nature" was UNAFFECTED by that and was doing teachings greatly superior to anywhere else. First of all, the teachings were equaled and bettered in other places, because the vpw ones were all plagiarized from other sources, So, elsewhere and at that moment, some Christians were teaching equally well, and other Christians were teaching BETTER, since vpw was never better than his best plagiarized source. Second, Christians are warned of the leaven principle lots of times, evil in one's life in ONE place affects the ENTIRE life, just as a little leaven leavens the whole lump. In the actual Bible, there's no "and the preacher was a criminal, taught some great Bible, then went back and committed more crimes, and God Almighty was ok with that and covered his tracks and gave him revelation and was ok with this criminal as His spokesman."

Mike: "Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman. Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL. He told me so." WordWolf: Well, Mike, since you've brought it up, I think your mental health isn't all it should be.

Mike: "I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify. Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure. Focus on his new man nature and he was a success." skyrider: "When was wierwille "in fellowship?" When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?" "Since you asserted wierwille's new man nature was evident and he did great things when he was "in fellowship with God"..... I would like some examples of this. Can you elaborate? If it was SO EVIDENT..... then you must have DOZENS of examples." Mike: "It's mostly in the written works, but recorded teachings and personal appearances helped also. My life was benefited greatly; still is. " skyrider: "Another evasive answer, at best. " WordWolf: No, it tells us a lot. It tells us that, when all is said and done, the BEST that Mike can cite about what vpw did, the biggest impact made on anybody's life in a POSITIVE way, was in the Bible teachings, homilies, sermons, books, etc. Those were the "great" things Mike's got to offer. So Crates: "So you're saying Saint Vic was most in fellowship when he was being a phony, being hypocritical, and when he was ripping off other people's work. SMH. " skyrider: "TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt."

He spent an awful lot of time working with the English definition of "daysman", which is a shame because it's such a non-issue to fixate on the specifics of the ENGLISH definition of words in the Bible.

Not me. I'm going to do the mother of all marathons at some point.

The beginning of the first movie showed Stark blacksmithing, this one showed Ivan Vanko blacksmithing. A more faint contrast was Stark vs Hammer, past and present weapons manufacturers, still in the same social circles, with Hammer unable to get media attention behind Stark. The film footage of Howard Stark contrasted nicely with Tony, even to the casual drinking. Finally, Stark as Iron Man and Rhodey as War Machine was another contrast. Pepper and Natasha were 2 redheads not quite on the same page, and Rhodey vs Ivan Vanko. Stark was drinking too much, and risked his life on a whim racing the car- a decision which almost killed him. Lastly, Nick Fury of SHIELD was contrasted with Senator Stern, who bookended the movie nicely.

CORRECT!

B) was indeed "Wipeout". Furthermore, C) was "FLOOR IS LAVA." And A) was "Frogger."

A) This game-show was inspired by an early 1980s video game by Konami, whose name it shares. Damon Wayans Jr is one of the hosts. It started out on Peacock (NBC streaming) but has appeared elsewhere in syndication. Contestants attempt to cross any of several "screens" (play areas) without "drowning" and "losing a life." Pairs of contestants try each area, with the better of the 2 moving on to the final round, where the best score comes from the most "hostages" (my term) rescued and the best time- but with a timer and with only one "life". The winner of each episode wins a fanny-pack full of money, and returns to try to make it to the series finale, for even more money. No part closely resembles the arcade game, but one "level" does involve crossing a highway, and at least one "level" involves crossing some sort of river, above crocodiles. The original arcade game was distributed by Sega, leading to a question of ownership. Konami won and made all sorts of sequels for the game, some on newer platforms, and a pinball machine (and that's not counting the slot machines.) A variant of the original is playable in your browser. This game- and game-show- have no connection with anyone equipped to do extended periods of independent underwater activity. B) John Cena's one of the hosts of this show. It's another show where contestants risk "drowning" and getting knocked from places. It's NOT inspired by any video game or other source AFAIK. This show has already had several seasons, between ABC and TBS. It supposedly has the "world's largest obstacle course." Despite the name, there is no connection to surfing with this show. People do, however, get removed from the show as the result of being knocked down from places, often by water or a padded obstacle. There is also no connection to having a problem while surfing. C) Don't fall under in this game-show or you're out, and your team has to manage without you! In this game, you have to traverse any of several "rooms" that are booby-trapped and make it to the end. If you go under, you're "dead" for reasons obvious to people who know this show's title. It's inspired by a children's game. The children's game can be invoked anywhere, but the game is properly played at someone's house, without shoes, and preferably by smaller children that don't weigh as much as adults. That's because they're going to be climbing all over the furniture, hopefully not breaking anything, but definitely not walking on the floor. Although this game was probably never played in Herculaneum, suggesting that someone do so would probably be considered to be in INCREDIBLY bad taste.

Cesar Romero Norman Fell Red Skelton Pinky Lee George Raft Peter Lawford

Maybe another quote?

Educated guess...... HONOLULU?????

Batman Begins Gary Oldman The Fifth Element

Waysider was responding to the idea that we should disregard the evil that vpw did, since to view that was to view a "failure" and to view him by some nebulous "new man" showed some sort of "success." Waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure. Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success."

Boy, that sure IS the same....

You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.

Thanks- that's the point I was trying to make. I have no idea how I left so many people behind on that one.

"If my God was as small as your God, I'd get me a NEW God."- vpw

[I provided the link because Mike's post was hidden in a reply. So, people can link and read all of what I'm replying to...] Mike: "The thing that is genuine "anti" in my proposed new term (Trademark Pending) is the reversal of excessive-love to excessive-hate. My theory is that most of the people who are very anti-wierwille now WERE very pro-wierwille when first taking the class. Finding out that VPW was not the holy man they idolized at first caused them to "snap" against him with with the same zeal as when they positively idolized him. It was a rush to idolize him and join the Corps early, and then a rush to anti-idolize him. In both rushes, there wasn't time to really sort things out properly." WordWolf: Taking people who dedicated themselves to God, their lives to God, who truly thought that loyalty was to God alone, and siphoning off that love of God and commitment, telling them this person was helping them get all of that done, then them finding out that the supposed leader, who supposedly dedicated his life to God, instead dedicated his life to alcoholism, tobacco, rape, molestation, and creature comforts, and all his talk about dedication to God was all a SMOKESCREEN for that, all a trick to get them to hand over all their money so he could booze up, smoke up, and live it up, while taking dedicated women who dedicated their lives to God and molested them and raped them, that will get an emotional reaction no matter who is involved. People went from completely buying into layer upon layer of snow job, to suddenly learning in one moment how FALSE it was, how FRAUDULENT vpw was, how HYPOCRITICAL he was, how PREDATORY he was. That's bound to get an emotional reaction- unless, of course, one decided never to actually address ANY of it. If one decided to blow all of it off under "boys will be boys", then things that outrage Jesus can be swept under the rug, and one can go on to ridicule people who have a legitimate emotional response to destroyed lives, hurt lives, capital crimes, causing God's people to hurt and stumble and savaging them. The only reasons I have this theory are: (1) because in the 1970s I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in “going ga-ga” over VPW, going WOW, and going into the Corps. I thought they went without thinking it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of love and excitement. I was slow with this; they were fast. (2) because from 1986 till now, I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in being enraged over VPW’s revealed sins, going ape over throwing away all he ever said did regardless of its truth value. I think few think it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of anger and unnecessary emotion. I go slow with this. WordWolf: People encountered happy, genuine Christians. They were told the reason they were so happy was this group teaching the Bible. They visit the group and are told much the same. They join the happy, genuine Christians, enjoying fellowship with them (by the normal usage of the word.) They are told, repeatedly, that the key to being so happy is this class this guy teaches, and how everybody there all agrees. Eventually, they buy into it, and take the class taught by the man who called himself "THE TEACHER" and built up his image so everybody sold him like that. All through the class, there's grads who keep up the love and fellowship. Afterwards, they're treated as somewhat higher, having that in common with the happy, genuine Christians. They're talked into taking more classes. They're leaned on- carefully- to donate their time and money- first 10%, then more, then all of their discretionary income- because of how holy the organization is, how important to God its leader is, how hard he works for both God and his people. Convinced (eventually) that to grow most with God will be to go WOW, some go. When they return, they're treated like heroes. Then they're convinced that to REALLY grow with God will be to go Corps. Dedicated to God, these poor, naive kids go Corps and try their best, absorbing the lessons taught there- many of which were unhealthy and exploited their loyalty, all by the so-called godly leader. They put in thousands upon thousands of hours of their lives, and much of their income, even choosing lesser jobs so they can attend events once a year, all because they're trying to do their best for God, and told this is how they do it. Then, they discover it was all built on lies. The only legit Christianity there was the LOCAL form they FIRST experienced. All the legit Christians had been shilling for a fraud, a conman, who sold lots of classes, lots of books, lots of events, always making a profit at every level, a man whose teachings were all cobbled together from the work of other, legit Christians. This man then took that money, and spent lots on creature comforts, chain-smoked, drank all day because he was addicted to alcohol AND tobacco, and in between all that set up an ELABORATE system to rape and molest some of God's women, covering his tracks at every level. The most dedicated of God's people respond to that by being enraged. Then Mike comes along and dares to say there's something wrong with that-that their anger and emotion are "unnecessary", that they should ignore all of that and stay loyal to the alcoholic rapist because he taught some good Bible. Mike doesn't seem to get a lot of converts to his thinking- for which he blames the people he tries to recruit. "The good that came from PFAL and TWI-1 was far greater than the bad, and GreaseSpotters who can’t integrate this in their world-view will continue to have a terrible reputation with grads out there." WordWolf: This isn't about popularity, it's about TRUTH. When people come here- and lots of them come here- they come here to read the truth. The truth is that the good that came in early twi came from the Jesus People that were recruited. What vpw contributed mostly is the "bad" we object to- and most people have no trouble understanding that once they learn what was hidden from them BY vpw. People like Mike who can't integrate this in his world-view will spend the rest of their lives spinning their wheels and being allowed to show up places, but never quite getting the RESPECT he thinks he has earned. I have people who disagree with me fundamentally on all sorts of stuff, but most of them respect me nonetheless, because I have earned their respect through integrity if nothing else. I've interacted with grads out there. They have no problem finding out what I believe. I have a GOOD reputation among them, and when I speak on God's Word, they take it seriously (I have proof.) it's possible that the good in twi- which came from the Jesus People- was far greater than the bad- the rapes, molestations, vices, greed, vanity and so on that came from vpw- but even if it was, I'd be slow to say so, especially to those who were victimized by vpw and his system. Is human life subject to CALCULATIONS, how much HARM is worth how much BLESSING? The Blessing of The Lord benefits with NO SORROW added with it. That's not a description of twi in ANY era. Have you ever researched around with old grads to find out what they think of GreaseSpot? [I know that they all come here when they want the truth on what twi is doing lately or has done since they checked in last- including people who are embarrassed to SAY they check in here. I know twi's innies come here to find out the truth on twi. I know twi's hierarchy knows all that- they insisted we post a letter of theirs to their own followers in order to do damage control on what information leaked out via the GSC. And there's thousands who posted here and have moved on with their lives- GSC success stories. I'm sure there's a few grads to whom this does not apply- there's always a minority- but I'm not going to throw away integrity and truth just to try to cozy up to people who value both so little that they spurn the GSC. I'm not here to make friends- although I've made some anyway- people who DO value truth and integrity. I do have a reputation, and it's not for being snuggly-wuggly, it's for telling the unadulterated truth. I didn't get that overnight nor by accident. It was the by-product of many decisions to value truth and integrity. People who don't make those decisions may get baffled as to how anyone can disagree with me or even dislike me, but still respect me. Well. the answer is there for those who want to know.]

One of the themes in this 2nd movie was one of contrasts. We saw the protagonist contrasted clearly with one villain, we saw him contrasted more faintly with the other, we saw him contrasted with his father, we saw him contrasted with his best friend. We also saw the 2 female characters contrasted with each other, and his best friend contrasted with one villain. We saw vices contrasted with each other, fast living was dangerous living. Finally, we saw the forces representing the establishment- or, more to the point, one representative of each- contrasted with each other.