WordWolf

It's rather obvious when you review the first segment of Session 1. At the very first verse, vpw made it clear that he was talking about financial abundance, material gain. I'm aware that there's always someone willing to try to explain it away, but it's never by actually addressing what vpw said. vpw was very clear and straightforward on the subject.

To say nothing of the fact that Walter DID run his own thing after he jumped ship, and, if he'd had the leadership abilities to actually run things, an entire new ministry would have re-formed around him, with more than 1/2 the ex-twi community following him. There were people who WANTED to take their cues from him at the time, but little came of it- and that was back when 4/5 of the twi regulars had all jumped ship TOGETHER, to say nothing of 4/5 of the local leaders. If he had the ability and the drive, it would have happened organically over the next few years. It didn't happen. It didn't look like it was GOING to happen.

It surprises nobody that you'd endorse that. His "analysis" included speculation that contradicted eyewitness accounts of what happened at the time, and skipped all the responsibility vpw had in the situation.

You never heard anybody say it because it never happened. vpw had the sole power to determine his successor- which is how vpw wanted it. When it came time to OFFICIALLY appoint a successor, vpw went through that sham of having people write down who they thought should be it. He also had the top people vote. Neither meant ANYTHING. lcm was not written in as a serious contender, nor did the top people vote for him. It didn't matter, because vpw had picked lcm long before any of this. When someone asked vpw (at the time, immediately after his announcement) why he picked lcm, vpw didn't hesitate in telling them the sole reason was that lcm never questioned vpw, when vpw gave him an order, lcm did it automatically. vpw only had 2 people, that we can see, who were willing to run off a cliff if vpw said to run off a cliff- lcm, who had been there longer, and cgeer, who had not. vpw had already sent cg to Europe so lcm and cg didn't have to share a stage. When you follow lcm's accounts of the time, it's also clear- although it probably wasn't clear to lcm- that vpw had him in mind several years before his selection- in fact, before even putting lcm in charge of the corps. Once he'd done that, vpw had pretty much locked onto the idea and stuck with that. In fact, it seems the sole reason donna started dating lcm in the first place! lcm's own account mentioned he was interested in her, vpw went off to talk to her, and vpw told donna lcm was going to be the big cheese in twi- which was when they STARTED dating. Her own accounts before that had been that she intended -sometime in the future- to marry a guy who was going to be a rising star in twi, period. So, what made lcm a "serious candidate" was vpw's sole estimation that lcm was loyal to vpw even unto painful death. As it turned out, things didn't work out at all like vpw expected, but that's vpw's fault. The top people at twi had their own ideas who it should be- and nobody said lcm was an excellent choice. The best anyone said was that he'd run the corps, so the corps should go along with him as leader. Nobody ever offered anyone else the big chair in twi. vpw reserved that sole right to himself, and he ignored the recommendations of others and locked on to lcm years before he announced anything. Look back, and you'll see, vpw wasn't very subtle about trying to mold lcm into another vpw. Don't believe me? Why else did vpw give lcm a motorcycle and THEN try to GET him interested in riding one like vpw?

The GSC is still a viable website, with multiple active discussions at any moment- like now. If you only checked one forum, and only checked for who STARTED threads, then you might think only 1 person's starting most of them. (Sometimes one person starts a few threads back-to-back.) There's lots of people posting on the active threads, check all the fora and you'll see. "About the Way", as always, is quite busy.

Once I was introduced to the Snopes website, I spent months reading every story they had up. They did a very thorough job of disproving all sorts of rumors and tall tales, complete with documentation. Most of the stories I had to unlearn were stories I'd heard in twi. I recommend any twi survivor to spend some time there. https://www.snopes.com/sitemap/

"Rumor mill" is actually a pretty good description of twi, and it has been for almost its entire history. vpw himself started that off- he listened in to the Liberty Lobby and John Birch Society and pretended all their stupid, baseless rumors were Divine Revelation, and people, of course, bought it. lcm continued in that vein- he announced the Pope (the elderly John Paul II) had bought an aircraft carrier, and was about to go around and demand conversions by force. It was OBVIOUSLY false. Even if JP2 had been that type of person (he was not) and the RCC had that kind of LIQUID CAPITAL (it does not and did not), first of all, it would need someone willing to sell an operational aircraft carrier to them. Then, once they took ownership, the next, rather obvious problem would come up. Who would CREW the thing? The closest thing to crew would be the Swiss Guard. All of them together wouldn't be enough to man an aircraft carrier, and they're from a landlocked country whose "navy" patrols lakes and rivers. For that matter, inside twi, I heard all sorts of unverified rumors that turned out to be completely false. People bought into them, and passed them along. In the case of one, I thought the person passing it along had actually been an eyewitness- but it was an event that never happened. In all my life, I've never seen a group of people half as gullible to rumors as I did when I was in twi. Obviously, that hasn't changed. And they're calling the GSC a "rumor mill"? Well, lcm was fond of saying that the devil's minions often accuse God's people of the things they themselves (the devil's minions) do- like saying Jesus cast out demons by a prince of demons. So, really, this should surprise nobody now. They're willingly taking on the role in people's lives that normally might be "reserved" for the devil's minions.

Yes.

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/forum/17-friend-tracker/ You can specify in the thread for people to send you private messages in reply.

"My grandfather used to work for your grandfather. Of course, the rates have gone up." "This is a nice boy. This is a good boy. This is a mother's angel." "You know, I'll never forget my old dad. When these things would happen to him. The things he'd say to me." "What did he say?" "What the hell are you doing in the bathroom day and night? Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?" "For as long as I can remember, people have hated me. They looked at my face and my body and they ran away in horror."

No, but interesting guesses.

Since you said you haven't seen this movie, the answer can't possibly be "the Cannonball Run" because you've definitely seen that.... Ok, seriously, YES, it's "the Cannonball Run."

Looks like I'll want to binge-watch the series.

I heard about that one. The story that went around was that, right in the middle of vpw speaking, someone asleep was nudged. "He just asked you to speak in tongues and interpret." The guy got up, immediately speaking- and interrupting vpw. vpw cut him off with "Sit down and shut up."

If anything, you've misstated things. Any time rfr was in charge of something, she micromanaged it to death. When she spoke in public, let alone taught, she had the personality of wet cardboard. She actually had a background as some kind of high school teacher or something but probably was the kind that put the students to sleep. When she took the reins of twi, twi got more controlling again. I think you were probably right about that subliminal message. As to vpw and lcm doing the "you're all fired, but if you grovel enough, you can come back" thing was done several times, and at least once to the FellowLaborers program. It worked, so they did it semi-regularly.

I'm not sure I'll have anything useful to offer, but here's my thinking on the subject..... The answer will either be one of two things, or possibly both simultaneously (which I suspect may be correct.) A) God is not a respecter of persons, so He relates to all of us the same. To do that, He has to relate on a very fundamental level for each of us as a person. As such, we probably wouldn't be aware of activity at that level. I was realizing I had something to post when I read the question "How does God work in us?" and skipped "Very well, thank you" to "He just does it." I realized that might say something. B) As a very individual God who works with each and every one of us, He would work slightly differently for each person who seeks Him. For someone who earnestly seeks an intellectual relationship with Him, he might relate on a more technical, informative level. For someone who seeks Him but at a more instinctive level, His relationship would reflect that, as well.

-One of the characters' qualifications include a degree from the University of Rangoon, and assorted night classes at the Knoxville Tennessee School of Faith Healing. -Does Ohio really have the death penalty for speeding? -The most obvious complaint seems to have an answer. If the roadblocks ate up more time than the combined time differences, then the ending makes perfect sense. Otherwise, the ending doesn't make sense.

"My grandfather used to work for your grandfather. Of course, the rates have gone up." "This is a nice boy. This is a good boy. This is a mother's angel." "You know, I'll never forget my old dad. When these things would happen to him. The things he'd say to me." "What did he say?" "What the hell are you doing in the bathroom day and night? Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?"

Nathan Jr, If you want to get a better sense of lcm's history with twi, there's a thread for you. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/8019-vp-and-me-in-wonderland/ "vp and me in wonderland." It examines the auto-biographical book lcm wrote, with discussions about his personal history and his own accounts of things, and analysis of same.

Um, you're welcome. Bartender, next round here's on me.

I think they may have done this once a year to different corps groups. "1974-1975 "After talking with LCM one day, Dr dismissed all the corps for bad attitude problems. He told them 'Ok, as of right now, you're all out of the corps.' He then made it available to all of them to reapply to him by filling out a 3 x 5 card, The card had to express their willingness to obey leadership. Some of them decided to leave rather than obey." ================================= I have to hand it to those who saw they were being jerked around and left.

That does seem like something that's easy to turn into something self-serving. It's a little like the moment in pfal when vpw talks about giving to charity, and suggests giving the money to Bible research or something, and makes a small grin like he's joking.

Steven Wright had a friend who spent all Summer practicing that dance, and now he can go under a carpet.

WordWolf: " Don't make it sound like it was considered completely sound doctrine until the day before Ratzinger/Benedict OFFICIALLY discontinued it. He made official what was already thought long before that. George Carlin was under the impression it was gone long before that. In his album "Class Clown" in 1972, he addressed that very thing. (No, he was factually incorrect, but he got the idea from what people thought at the time was official doctrine.) "Limbo was where they sent unbaptized babies. The thinking was, it wasn't their fault. Can't see God if you're not baptized, whip ém into Limbo! What was Limbo like? *odd sounds* *odd voice* 'Wel-come to Limbo.' They've since cancelled Limbo. Apparently, when they purged a couple of saints, they called off Limbo as well. I hope they promoted everyone, you know, and didn't just cut them off into space." I think the audio is on YT somewhere if you're curious. (Don't hotlink it unless you want YT to delete the file.) " ---------------------------------------- Oldiesman: "The very fact that it was sound doctrine for centuries leads me to think that we in this century can be wrong and not centuries before. Traditional Catholics pride themselves on tradition and age-old concepts so why would this concept be any different. George Carlin said there is no God. If he said there is no heaven, hell, limbo, etc. should we believe him. He is very funny and a gifted entertainer; but is it wise for a believer to take serious spiritual advice from an unbeliever?" --------------------------------- I suppose it was too much to hope the old "I'll find something you didn't say, claim you said it, and object to it" Oldiesman was gone for good..... I quoted Carlin, and said that my point was "(No, he was factually incorrect, but he got the idea from what people thought at the time was official doctrine.)" As a stand-up comedian, his job involved observing the culture around him and composing comedy. So, I quoted him to point out people thought this concept was deprecated long before Ratzinger/Benedict. As of 1972, that was in the air. That was the sole point. I also said outright that he was FACTUALLY INCORRECT. So, to skip my one point to focus on points I didn't make is, at least, silly. The other problem is your claim about the history of Limbo. You said "The very fact that it was sound doctrine for centuries leads me to think that we in this century can be wrong and not centuries before. " I'll quote the Encyclopedia Brittanica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/limbo-Roman-Catholic-theology "The concept of limbo probably developed in Europe in the Middle Ages but was never defined as a church dogma, and reference to it was omitted from the official catechism of the church that was issued in 1992." I'm not interested in splitting hairs over the titles the RCC gives everything. However, the RCC never made Limbo a church dogma. That sounds to me like the opposite of saying it was considered "sound doctrine." Otherwise, there would have been encyclicals and everything affirming it. Since 1543 (the Council of Trent), there's been debate as to specifics of Limbo- which were not settled with a Papal decree- unless you count 2007's de-facto calling it off. For that matter, whatever led up to 1992 pretty much decided that the doctrine was kaput. So, again, as of the 1970s, some people thought it had already been called-off. If you feel the need to continue this fruitless diversion, please go to Doctrinal and start a new thread.