WordWolf

The Smurfs!

Charity, you might be interested in reading something. The guy who pushed that "any 2 Christians can make a marriage work- it's called 'commitment'" naturally had his marriage end in divorce, mostly because he and his wife had nothing in common and the marriage was mostly a sham, especially by the end. That was lcm, and he wrote a book once called "vp and me." It contained a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. We discussed that book in a thread called "vp and me in wonderland." In the thread, he mentions how his marriage began, and how his relationship began. It was INCREDIBLY shallow and unemotional. It's almost shocking it lasted at all. Then again, his mrs had previously declared she was going to marry up in twi, and vpw went to her to approach her for lcm, and undoubtedly told her he was vpw's successor. Well, she was onboard after that, and lcm apparently had no idea how little he PERSONALLY mattered in his own relationship and marriage. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/8019-vp-and-me-in-wonderland/ That thread was a sequel. Before that, we discussed twi's advertisement, the book called "The Way-Living in Love." That thread was called "the way-living in wonderland." https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/7363-the-wayliving-in-wonderland/ Those threads will take time to read, if you're interested. In the case of lcm, I thought you'd find it fascinating reading.

Hi, Oldies. Just thought you'd appreciate this one, it's for free. I remember hearing a criticism of Christians eager to pray over someone with laying on of hands. SUPPOSEDLY, the reason was this verse: I TImothy 5:22 (KJV) Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. Nobody ever asked me about that verse, but I was already aware that "keep thyself pure" was the main point of that verse, and the "hands" business was ABOUT being a partaker of other men's sins. It was a common belief in the Greco-Roman empire days that to lay hands on a criminal right after they committed a crime meant you were taking part in that crime. I came across that in Edith Hamilton's "Mythology", when reading about Hercules and Theseus. (Hercules was in shock over his guilt about something, and Theseus snapped him out of it by deliberately grabbing hold of him, allegedly taking part in the same crime. The writer explained the significance of the whole thing in passing. Edith Hamilton's a recognized expert in history and mythology, which is why her book is a textbook in high schools all over the US.) So, you might want to read up on that yourself, on the odd chance someone wants to criticize you over the manner in which your group tries to help people.

The Astonishing Ant-Man?

Oh, you think you don't? Fenneman, get the gun!

It's a completely different world, post-twi. It's a completely different Christianity, post-twi. And the other Christians are often not the fools we were told they were. Agreeing to disagree when there's an INEVITABLE difference leads to a life with a LOT less stress.

We had some fascinating discussions on the subject of "speaking in tongues" a few years back. We discussed the physical actions we were taught, what the Bible says on the subject, and whether or not those were the same thing. Personally, I NOW think they were never the same thing. (I changed positions as the discussion unfolded.) I think that the SIT in the Bible may exist somewhere, but I haven't seen it because what I've seen doesn't match the Bible but only matches what I was told the Bible MEANT. In twi, a number of verses that don't mention "speaking in tongues" are allegedly about it. In hindsight, I'm wondering why God Almighty got so coy if they're really the same thing ( " something something in the spirit" and "speaking in tongues.") There's no verse that says "speaking in tongues, that is to say, something-something in the spirit" or equivalent. I know He didn't have to speak to my modern mind, but that's something necessary, if such an important subject is what I was told it was. None of this affects my faith or my prayer life- I can pray just fine "with my understanding" and get miraculous results "with my understanding". I also don't go around sneering at Christians who think the modern SIT is the Biblical one. What would that serve? For that matter, I don't sneer at people with various positions on the Trinity (for example) for the same reason- so what? God's honoring our prayers equally, so it looks a lot like He's making them non-issues.

The "marginalize Jesus" thing in twi was never as successful for me as they would have liked. I knew full well what it meant to make Jesus my Lord. That meant I had sworn fealty to him, and he was my sovereign. That's a relationship also- where the subject gives loyalty and service to the monarch, and in turn the monarch watches out for the subject. No matter how little we spoke about him, I was still clear he was my lord and I was his vassal. To some people this is obvious, to others, it's unusual and an introduction to the idea. So, if God passes the order to Jesus who passes it to me, or God passes it directly, or they both pass it directly because they're the same being, in practice it works out the same.

It did NOT occur to those buzzards. Please remember that there are people who think that religious conviction and scientific knowledge are antithetical to each other, and will scorn whichever they have not chosen. So, there's religious people who shun basic science, and science believers who shun religious belief in conventional forms (even if their own beliefs include leaps of faith while condemning others for making leaps of faith.) People like that nowadays can make Christians look bad, unintelligent, and anti-intellectual. Too bad they don't know enough history of science to know how many Christians were out there, inventing science that we now take for granted. Sir Isaac Newton wrote and, in effect, invented Calculus and wrote on gravity and many other things, and wrote considerably on the Bible as well. Gregor Mendel can be considered "the father of genetics"- he performed experiments in a monastery because he was a monk. It's only the last 2 centuries that this antagonism between Christianity and science has been able to find any ground- on either side of the divide.

Good points. vpw was unable to teach us about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus. Why? Here's a few reasons. 1) vpw didn't view relationships or people like we do- he viewed them as resources. So, actual relationships with caring- as opposed to business relationships - were beyond him. 2) vpw largely faked his way through the ministry. He learned the proper gestures and mannerisms, how to bow his head in prayer and so on. he learned to deliver speeches in a convincing manner. He learned how to cut corners by taking the work of others and presenting it as his own, either in written form or as a preacher, preaching someone else's work as his own. He picked the soft options in school and skipped church history and languages (that's why his grasp of Bible languages was so weak.) So, he learned to parrot back the works of others. The deeper matters- unless he had someone to directly quote- were not things he could speak on, so he avoided them. 3) vpw didn't want us to have a relationship with Jesus. vpw wanted us to have a business relationship with him and twi, where he sells the things of God, the prayers, the classes, etc, and everyone else pays tuition, tithes, etc. Not convinced? Ok, answer this: how many denominations or church groups out there teach to consistently give MORE than the tithe? vpw taught it and gave it a name- "abundant sharing." Followup question: how many denominations or church groups out there teach that you can separate what money you need to live on right now, and should give all of the rest to the church? vpw taught that, and gave it a name- "plurality giving." For that matter, he made the tithe a mandatory 10% and a necessity, where the Bible says we are NOT supposed to give "of necessity"- which means, once again, vpw taught the opposite of the Bible on a subject.

II Peter 1:19,20,21 (KJV) 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. =========================================== How many decades ago were we discussing how vpw's explanation of these verses were completely wrong? vpw said that 1:20 was warning us not to "privately interpret" the verses of the Bible- while doing exactly that with that verse. These verses explain the ORIGIN of Scripture. It's a more sure word of prophecy that wasn't of someone's "letting-loose" (to use a familiar phrase), nor by the will of man long ago, but rather the result of holy men of God who spoke as directed by The Holy Ghost. This "one's own letting-loose" thing meaning how to avoid approaching the Bible, that was an elementary mistake that, as often happened, was the result of elevating the wording of the 1611 King James Version over the texts from which it came. Often, vpw came out with a lengthy explanation with rambling analogies, all stemming from the exact phrasing in the King James Version. However, when one goes back to the texts- Stephens, Nestle, etc, one finds nothing of the kind. vpw got hung up on the exact phrasing of the King James Version as if it was AUTHORITATIVE in its exact phrasing, rather than a translation of texts more authoritative than itself. So, to avoid "one's own private interpretation" as referred to in I Peter 1:20, don't try to write something by your will and claim it's Scripture. (BTW, trying to write something by God's Will and claim it's Scripture is self-defeating, so don't try that, either.)

It IS "Pirates of the Caribbean - Curse of the Black Pearl." I thought that Elizabeth Swam pretending to be a Turner might be a giveaway, for me, the reference to "Bootstrap" Turner would have definitely done it.

"No! Not good! Stop! Not good! What are you doing? You’ve burnt all the food, the shade! The rum!" "Yes, the rum is gone!" "Why is the rum gone?!" "One, because it is a vile drink that turns even the most respectable men into complete scoundrels. Two, that signal is over a thousand feet high. The entire Royal Navy is out looking for me, do you really think there is even the slightest chance that they won’t see it?" "But... why is the rum gone?"

Oh, and I'm busier than usual, partly because of the World Cup, so please cut me a little slack on updates.

No, this movie was a commercial success and is recognizable. I totally would have gotten it from the last quote, and I'm not a fan of the movie.

We know which ex-poster it was. He vented all of that years ago, apparently. It's such a non-issue now it's incredible. In other news, Allan, there's no room for politics on the GSC, and little tolerance for anti-vax, for that matter. I'm sure the staff can explain again when they check in.

While I encourage people continuing to learn throughout their lives, and studying informally while they live, it's not the same as getting a degree. You've looked up some science, but you're neither a degreed scientist nor in their weight class. I still remember your passing explanation of something that included an error so big that even Schoolhouse Rock didn't make it. But, if you have to tell yourself you really DO have all the science mastered, then never mind, go right ahead.

I'm with you so far. You're probably trying too hard. Just sit down and relax, have an apple or something, THEN try to solve it.

"Put it away, son. It's not worth you getting beat again. " "You didn't beat me. You ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you. " "That's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it?" "This dock is off-limits to civilians." "I'm terribly sorry, I didn't know. If I see one, I shall inform him immediately. Apparently there's some sort of high-toned and fancy to-do up at the fort, eh? How could it be that two upstanding gentlemen, such as yourselves, did not merit an invitation?" "Someone's got to make sure that this dock stays off-limits to civilians." "It's a fine goal, to be sure. But it seems to me... that a ship like that one, makes this one here seem a bit superfluous, really." "Oh, the Dauntless is the power in these waters, true enough. But there's no ship as can match the Interceptor for speed." "Elizabeth... Turner. I'm a maid in the Governor's household." "Miss Turner...?" "Bootstrap." "And how does a maid come to own a trinket such as that? Family heirloom, perhaps?" "I didn't steal it, if that's what you mean." "Very well, you hand it over and we'll put your town to our rudder and ne'er return."

Definitely not.

Hi, Roy. I honestly don't think anybody here hates you, and I honestly don't think anybody here hated you. Some of us do hope you'll speak to some professionals. They can help in ways that posts online can't help.

(I lost a post previously, so I didn't want to lose everything in one post again.) I think vpw DID have regrets, but they weren't the type of regrets a mature leader would have. He expressed regret about losing his eye- because it was a visible reminder of his failings. He said privately to lcm that what bothered him was that, in the OT, a priest with a blemish was no longer able to serve in the temple. Taken from his perspective, it was a rather visible reminder that his "believing" doctrine failed to heal him. He'd set forth that he was some great one, with "Super-Believing", so that twi'ers connected him with The Great Power of God. vpw had made a point of that, often. So, when he really needed it, it failed him because his doctrine was flawed. One doesn't alter reality simply through "believing." God Almighty alters reality when He wishes, and we pray and ASK for any alterations we want. But in vpw's system, vpw was supposed to be able to believe, and the healing would happen miraculously- like in his claim about instant healings off backs of trains. (If that had been real, this one would have been a cinch!) A lot of the Word-Faith preachers have problems with that- their system says they can "believe" and all kinds of healing will result. However, they die at young ages, and wear glasses, and have other visible signs of flawed health. If I could just concentrate and my body would conform to my mental picture, I would definitely be in excellent health, and I probably would look good enough to do movies, or at least TV. For that matter, I'd live a longer life with excellent health, and my nearest and dearest would do well similarly- hey, concentrate and the spouse's cold goes away? (Etc.) When it comes to his final hours, I think he really DID buy into the idea that he could concentrate and miraculously heal. I think he was searching his mind for what he was missing. Rather than accept his doctrine was flawed, he put the blame on himself and on others, as you said. With cgeer, he blamed everybody by name. In his last day, he tried to think of how he'd fallen short of being able to super-believe by displeasing God somehow. In between all the rapes, druggings, simony, plagiarism, and so on, he was unable to identify ANYTHING that would displease God. I think that's true, and in his mind, all of those were excusable and all right with God. After all, he thought ORGIES were OK with God, just not OK with people. So, I think his regret was that he had failed to Super-Believe, and that he said so. I think people mistook that for something a lot more profound. He "knew himself to be" Super-Believer, who alters reality at a thought. He failed at that and died. He wished he had believed stronger. I don't think he regretted living a less moral life because he didn't even recognize it on his DEATHBED.

"the sympathy card could be an old, attention loving creep's ploys for attention. I wasn't around then, but if passing of a patriarch is to be believed, then vic had been put out to pasture and outshined by Martindale...maybe vic was ready to let the responsibility go but not the spotlight...That would explain all the pity potty garbage that came out of him towards the end of his life. " I don't question that the pity-party was in effect- I'm confident it was. I might disagree about what affected what, however. vpw had to step down due to his body pretty much deteriorating. vpw had smoked and drank HEAVILY for decades, and the resulting cancer was killing him, starting with his eye and his liver, and was going to keep going after his entire body in a progressive wave of destruction. On top of that, he was getting old- and looked the worse for wear due to the heavy drinking and smoking. So, he had to have an eye removed and used a glass eye prosthetic. That bothered him on many levels, not the least of which was his vanity. His approaching mortality had to be a subject that came up, as well. vpw was never a mature man, nor a wise man. His reactions would not have demonstrated that, and that's no surprise. So, he handed over the reins to lcm because he had to. He'd previously puffed up lcm's ego, and had previously made twi a one-man show. Now, all of that was going to work against him. Now someone else was ALL the show. So, suddenly, vpw went from the central figure to someone on the outside who was easily shoved-aside and ignored. Those who knew him well knew how immature he was and often how difficult he was, and now they didn't HAVE to deal with him- so they didn't. The new big cheese was lcm, so everyone focused on him- and lcm didn't waste time making everything about him, either. If ANYTHING happened in twi that got some kind of notice, he HAD to be in the middle. High Country Caravan? He was on it. Tom Burke did a satirical album? lcm made an intro. Bands showed up onstage? lcm, despite neither singing nor playing an instrument, often ended up on the stage by the end, in time for the applause. AOS was only the cherry on the sundae. Yes, vpw wanted attention. Yes, he went overseas so cgeer could pretend he was important and kowtow to him. vpw ranted to him at length about a lot of nonsense, and predicted all sorts of things about twi that completely failed to come to pass.

When I first heard it was a few years ago. One poster said they were friends with someone who had lived on-grounds at the time and was one of the last few people to see vpw alive. That person told about how vpw was stressing himself in his final hours, trying to figure that one out. If I was depicting a fraud Christian leader who was at Death's Door (whether myself or someone else), I'd expect the person to approach death with a lot more peace in themself, and prayers for those outliving them. "My conscience is bothering me" for someone who normally went around sinning is an odd choice. "My conscience is clear and I'm ready to face my God now or next in my perception" is what I'd expect to see. It's also how Pope John Paul II seemed to face death. From eyewitness accounts, it looked like he was praying for the Catholics as a whole right when he died. (My interpretation of the description; your mileage may vary.) Perhaps, from the perspective of a more innocent person, vpw's comments may sound a lot more innocent. Later comments certainly did- blaming everyone around him for "helping kill" him with insufficient believing, "he died of a broken heart", bs like that. He certainly fed a line of bull cookies like that to geer- who wrote it down and confronted the bot not long after vpw died. But, at the same time, it's also possible to see the other comments as coming from someone who had numbed his own conscience, who only suspect he'd made some kind of mistake and displeased God because he wasn't getting miraculous healing, not because he knew what behavior would displease God and avoided all of it as best he knew how.

The quote were: one of Raj's clues on his scavenger hunt, Amy prepping for her wedding and worried about her mother ruining it, Sheldon and Leonard, Sheldon photo-shopping people into the wedding photos for his and Amy's wedding, Stuart and Denise closing the Comic Center of Pasadena early because it might be the apocalypse, Howard thinking about his limits of what he can teach his son and Raj catching how short his list was, Bernadette and Howard, with Bernadette determined to get her new baby out the scheduled day no matter what, Amy and Penny during Amy and Sheldon's secret contest on who should be their Maid of Honor and Best Man, (more recognizable) Raj and his dad, with Dad complaining Raj is neither married nor living within his own salary, Howard and Bernadette when Howard was amazed over the developing baby that Bernadette was already tired of, Sheldon kicked a rock in anger over Bert getting an award and Sheldon injuring both feet on the rock, the US Army rep cancelling their contract with the US Army for the new tech development. As a show that lasted more than 10 seasons and had at least 1 spinoff, that really limited the possible number of correct answers. The spinoff, of course, is "Young Sheldon."