WordWolf

That would have been my first guess about the initial post/er, as well. That pic may be less tame than most Christian organizations prefer to use. However, compared to the old "parent" organization's talk about the subject, it's pretty tame. :)--> It hardly would fit in with the pornographic videos vpw showed some of you people in the live CFS classes. I wonder how much of his "sex maniac" stuff snuck into the splinters. I'll probably never know.

All the bod is doing is maintaining a delaying tactic. The group is in "negative growth" (hemorrhaging followers) and has been for years. The people at the top want to maintain their "creature comforts" as long as possible. Sooner or later, they KNOW they will need to jump ship, when the Titanic sinks all the way past the waterline, if not sooner. Even the fox has to know that the bod will toss her out like yesterday's trash the same way they deep-sixed mrs w. So, this is all a delaying tactic. I wonder what their "retirement plans" are like.....

Great. It probably will be the most popular part of the site. Just keep my name off the thing. :)--> Maybe I'll be able to come up with some more of the little issues so common amongst the flock, when the flock was/is being sheared by the mogs.

Dear Hell-loise: I'm a young, impressionable female approaching 20 years old. Last month, we visited hq. While I was asleep, about 3am, I awoke suddenly to find the mog in my room (I was sure I locked the door), dressed in a smoking jacket and silk pajamas. He said something about healing me and a real man of God, and blessing me. Then he left. For some reason, he seemed discomfited seeing the dagger my Daddy always told me to hold in my hand whenever any man not my husband was alone in my bedroom with me. I'm confused by what happened. What was the mog talking about? Was something wrong with my knife? What should I have done? =========== (Someone else will have to answer this one. My limit was writing it, even as a hypothetical.)

Some people can eat a sandwich while watching an autopsy. Me, I'm pretty sure my "stomach" isn't that "strong", and I'd feel sick. I don't think that's a "failing" on my part, not having calloused to that degree. Similarly, the horrible things twi did are worth feeling sick over from time to time. If you feel nothing when hearing how they destroyed lives-like some of the current leadership-then something is wrong with YOU. Even the unbelievers feel sick to hear of the horrors that were perpetuated.

If I were to just make a snap-judgement on the little we know, I'd say he was afraid of something. "Mercy is for the weak." (Instructor villain, Karate Kid.) The concepts involved with praying for people who need more than 5 seconds of help made the corpse uncomfortable. People were supposed to be disposable, like pets, to these people, especially the later corpse. The guy may realize he has no idea what he's doing, since he was never trained for it, and was selected AGAINST for compassion before trained to teach people are disposable. (I'm not talking ALL corpse, but this applies to quite a few.) Maybe he actually gets uncomfortable when facing people who need real help. Then again, maybe he really DOES refuse to pray for people he doesn't like. It's his failing, no matter what.

Ok, the usual questions... Do you have a firewall? Do you have an antivirus program you keep updated? Do you have the latest editions of Ad-Aware SE and Spybot:Search and Destroy? By a firewall, I mean at least a software program designed for that, not the thing that comes with Windows or SP2. (Although the SP2 thing is better than the other one.) The online virus scan you saw is good, but it's better to have programs that prevent a virus from getting there or staying there. Furthermore, AdAware and Spybot handle spyware and malware, which can ALSO slow things down. There are free versions of each of those (Spybot's shareware, and accepts donations), and thus you can have a well-defended computer without paying for the defenses. Also, if you use Mozilla, Netscape, Opera or Firefox rather than Internet Explorer, you'll find fewer script-exploits can sneak in while you surf. ===== I knew someone who thought their computer was adequately defended. (It had almost no defenses.) By the time they put in serious time to clean it out (and asked me), they had over four THOUSAND viruses to clean out of the machine, plus what the spyware cleaners found. Afterwards, the machine ran a lot faster and they said it was like having a new computer.

Of course, a whole OTHER issue is just how much "writing" vpw did on books like JCOPS and JCOP versus slapping his name on what the staff did...

The "inbuilt" firewall-which is it? It's not that Microsoft Windows one, is it? If so, you don't exactly HAVE a firewall. You have a pretend-firewall. That thing's job is to lower the chances of infection while you download and run a REAL firewall.

Yes. A) Run an online scan for any viruses it mcaffee missed. http://www.trendmicro.com B) Download the latest versions of AdAware and Spybot:Search and Destroy, update them, and run them both. That, on top of changing your passwords, should be enough. You DO have a firewall, right?

Allow me to throw in another idea, one not so revolutionary. The problem is he's bored because Kindergarten is partly learning, and partly babysitting, and the 2nd part is putting him to sleep. I had the same problem in Kindergarten. For some bizarre reason, they let me make the decision on this. As ridiculous as it sounds, looking back, I think my solution WAS the best solution. I went to First Grade in the morning, and Kindergarten in the afternoon. Yes, I was doing both grades of work each day. No chance of being bored THAT way! Too much to do! Eventually, I decided to just stay with 1st grade, since I was up until 8pm some nights doing homework. This way, I eased into 1st grade and didn't have "culture shock". Did I end up insufficiently educated for my age? Well, for reasons unclear to me, my parents switched my school at the end of first grade (rather than starting 2nd grade at the new one.) I had about a month at the new school, and I made the Honor Roll, after which I settled in nicely. (Although they bored me from time to time also, just not so often.) So, it's possible that may work for him, without restructuring the school board this semester.

It wouldn't hurt to give them a copy of the e-mail, too....

I also see you were edited-get over it. Paw doesnt OWE you an explanation. If you don't like the way he runs things, leave and post elsewhere. No 1's forcing you to eat here.

Was Question 8 the famous "faith-blasters" thing that was effectively a photocopy with one or two words moved around? Does someone have those links handy with the side-by-side comparisons, for the benefit of those of us just tuning in at home?

I don't have time to get into this now, and just happen to be looking at a related concept (but I'm not done). I think the answer is in the rest of that verse, and in thinking like the audience 3000 years ago. We're thinking like Greeks or modern people. We need to think like Isaiah's audience did.

Actually, in this case, based on the results, I'd be comfortable calling it "rebellion", or calling it "High Treason". (wordnet dictionary) 'High Treason: a crime that undermines the offender's government." (hyperdictionary) "High treason: treason against the sovereign or against the state, the highest civil offense." "Legal Definition of treason: A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government or by giving or comfort to the enemy. The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance; or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power. Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort."

Good point -- but Jesus was the "judge and jury" in that particular case. I hear what you are saying Berry, and I have mixed emotions about it too, though I do think the correct sentence was handed down. Actually, Jesus 'sentenced' Paul to a life of hard labour and a martyrdom at the end. Depending on how you look at it, he either DID get death, or got L-WOPPed (Life WithOut Possibility of Parole). Also, Paul "was consenting" to the death of Stephen- he didn't personally strangle the life of an expectant mother. Finally, premeditation counts for a lot.

Good point. Hadn't thought of it. Thank you. Actually, my guesstimate was that between ROA 1988 and ROA 1989, 80% of the people in as of ROA 88 had jumped ship as of the opening of ROA 89. (That was based on attendance being roughly 20% of the previous year's ROA.) This figure, BTW, was backed up later, so I thought that was pretty good. Mind you, significant #s of people who were in as of ROA 1989 left before ROA 90, and attended that one to finish personal business. (Welcome back a WOW, finish a WOW year, raid the Bookstore.) So, I'd say twi lost 80% of 1988's membership by 1989. I don't know how many they lost 1985-1988 as a result of POP, nor 1989 or later, as a result of lcm being an increasingly bigger sanitary napkin as time progressed.

Or, as I said earlier, you can look at the copy on the GSC site. It IS coded so it can be read as html documents with your browser instead of as a pdf.... (Your choice.)

*reads* Well, I'm sure he hasn't read Bullinger. (If he HAS, he disagrees sharply with him on the identity of the "fallers".) This guy's relying on "the Bible Code" and secret messages concealed in the Bible. This guy's also operating entirely upon the assumption that the Hebrew cubit was a STANDARDIZED UNIT OF MEASUREMENT, and many of us, if not most of us, know that's completely not true. He's also completely departed from all historical documents that actually cover the construction of the pyramids, including accounting reports on the workers and logistics like food and so on. (The workers dragging the stones making up the pyramids had bread baked fresh on-site. That's just one piece of minutiae on the pyramids' construction.) According to him, the Egyptians couldnt have the brains to construct the pyramids. History says they did it anyway, so by definition they apparently DID have the brains to do so. I was surprised to see Clarence Larkin's name pop up in his citations. Anyone else remember that name? From what I saw, I suspect he took some observations made by Larkin and constructed an entire theology around it. (I may be wrong-it's possible Larkin taught this nonsense.) *reads the initial post* OMG-this guy graduated the 11th corpse???? Well, that possibly explains the Larkin connection, but it makes the anti-Bullinger stuff baffling. Sorry, Eagle, I for one can't see any redeeming qualities in this thing, going from the website and the author's own words. For all of me, he doesn't have to teach anything even vaguely resembling what Bullinger taught, but he's relying far too much on insufficient scholarship and building far too much on "gray areas" that have already been filled in by the work of others. In hindsight, I wish the corpse had actually had some courses up to at least community college-standard at the Way C. of E. ... It might have saved Patrick Heron from writing and releasing this collection of wild guesses. Depending on his audience, he may well sell many copies. Heck, Sylvia Browne and a number of "psychics" have thriving businesses due to the patronage of the gullible and poorly-educated, perhaps he can capitalize on that as well and turn a tidy profit. (I'd be less blunt about the lack of skill evidenced here, but he IS selling these things for money and supposedly completed research on the subject.)

Can you give us a vague notion about at least one of the "good argumemts" or a conclusion drawn from one of them? Otherwise, this strikes me as more of an ad for a book than a "discussion" thread. (If you want to post an ad, that's allowed, but I am of the impression that's not quite what you had in mind.)

George,Then why do you bother at all with these doctrinal threads? I mean you don't give a hoot about the Bible - so what's the point? Don't you think you have rubbed our noses in your disdain for the Bible enough times by now? I agree. I think that exhortations to critical thought have their place in the GSC, especially to newer arrivals who have has limited exposure to them. Some threads, in fact, recommend skeptical thought and discussion from that perspective. However, not every thread DOES, and it can be an unnecessary distraction from the discussion. We ARE trying to discuss "dispensationalism" (aka various things) in this thread.

I'll look again later, but I didn't happen to stumble across it last night. (Again, it's posted in the GSC Documents.)

Actually, you can just skim the copy on the GSC main page, which is what I did when you asked what predictions I meant. That's when I noticed all the "I served vichysoisse that evening, and steaks medium rare" stuff. Every time I read the thing over the years, it slowly gets spookier and spookier. What's REALLY disturbing is I know Paw isnt changing the document-it's my perception that's changing each time.

And where would that be? Which Epsitle and what Bible mentions an "administration of grace". Not the King James. Not the NIV. Not the ASV. The words "administration of grace" do not appear in any Bible that I am aware of. Paul does however write in Epehsians 3:2: Eph 3:2 2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: Is this talking about an "Administration" as defined by Wierwille/Bullinger/et al - as in a period of time? No. In the context read verses 7 & 8: Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Paul is simpy saying that he was given grace by God by allowing him to preach and minister to the Ephesians (Gentiles). To pull a time framed "administration of grace" out of these verses is absurd and sloppy interpretation and is not reading it in the context. Dave said elsewhere: Huh? What "actual words" are you taking about?After posting a diatribe of TWI Doctrine and Wierwillian theology, Dave then writes: LOL! Hey Dave have you ever closed your PFAL Book and your TWI materials are actually read anything else? I kinda doubt it. Maybe you should unclutter your mind of strict adherance to Wierwille's teachings and study the works of some true Christian scholars. You are making a false presumption that folks who disagree with TWI doctrines do so becasue of resentment and anger. Not so. You see some of us have actually studied outside of PFAL and TWI materials and have through objective study found them seriously flawed and wanting - broken cisterns that can hold little water. So get off of the anger and resentmet horsepucky - ok ? It doesn't cut it around here. Oh, and welcome to Greasespot! I think this is what Goey was referring to...