CKnapp3
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Posts posted by CKnapp3
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Sunesis, you said: "You still get some Nephilim DNA slip through occassionally. Nephilim are the tares that will eventually be weeded out. Even though they have mingled with men, they do not cleave to men - they hate men. I believe it is they who carry out Satan's plan on earth causing large scale destruction and misery (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and other great destroyers through history)."
I don't believe Satan has any plans of his own, God gave Satan what power he has. It is written,(this is God speaking) "I will have compassion on whom I will, and will harden whom I will". God for instance hardened the Pharoah's heart that "He may show his power to Israel". Does God need Satan? Yes and No. God doesn't need Satan to exercise his power. However we wouldn't know God's goodness with out the contrast of evil, which Satan is commissioned to exercise. It is written that God creates both good AND EVIL. Satan is NOT the creator of evil, GOD IS. And one day, when its work is finished, God will destroy evil and Satan both. But I don't think Satan will vanish into some sort of phantom existence. It's likely he will be recreated for some other purpose that God has in his own plans. Just like when you dismantle an old worn out automobile. That particular automobile has been in fact DESTROYED. The steel used in that auto is recycled and made into something else, perhaps a another new automobile. Better still, what about beating (DESTROYING) our swords (instruments of death) into plowshares (instruments of life), as it is so written?
I believe Hitler was part of God's plan, perhaps to punish Israel one more time because they strayed away, something they are famous for doing. What happened 3 years after the fall of Hitler? Israel was returned to the Jews after they were in exile for almost 19 centuries.
:)--> And Christianity better take heed and also heed the warning of Jesus, who said "except you repent, you will likewise perish"! I see another rise of a Hitler type dictator, and this time he will be after Christians. Well, look what's happening to Christians in this country. They cry that their rights are constantly being violated by the ACLU for instance. Communism has also been proven to be a threat to the church. And though it has fallen, it could easily rise again (what is the prophecy about the beast with the deadly wound that was healed?). Incidently, Communism IS NOT A THREAT to the saints :)--> It never was, and never will be. But to the filthy whoremongering churches, it can pose a BIG threat. -
Def59 said:
Hebrews 12:29
for our “God is a consuming fire.” [ Deut. 4:24]
And Def, if you plan on spending eternity with God, I'd take heed to that if I were you
;)-->I believe we all will be cast into the lake of fire, and many will acutally come out smelling like a rose
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quote:
Originally posted by def59:I have heard that God sent the flood to destroy the Nephilim because their evil was so great.
And CKnapp, I admire your faith in God's goodness, but the Bible does talk about eternal damnation and punishment and how not everyone will go to heaven. I see nothing in Scripture that supports this position.
Could you share some verses and not attacks?
I've already quoted you some. If you are looking for references, I don't remember the references offhand, and I don't have the time to get them. I suggest you make use of a good conconrdance if you need to find the references for yourself. Besides, quoting references sounds to me like being a show-off. Jesus never quoted them, so why should I.
But while we are on the subject of bible knowledge, you can know every single word in the bible and yet have NO LOVE! It is also written: "Knowledge makes you proud, but love builds" I would rather be in the company of someone who lacked bible knowledge and had lots of love than someone who has a bunch of bible knowledge and have lots of hate. Furhtermore, the loving person who lacks bible knowledge isn't going to have any means of deceiving me.
BTW, the word "eternal" in eternal punishemnt is the Greek word "aion" and should mean "for an age", not "all endless time" The purpose of punishment is for correction, not for revenge.
And as far as God sending a flood is concerned, God can destroy, and he can rebuild from the ruins too. Do you believe this Def? Never mind what the bible might say. I'm not asking you what the bible says, I'm asking you what YOU believe. But if you must go by the bible, I've said this time and time again that it is written: NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD.
OK, maybe I'm saying everyone is going to heaven as a vernacular, since everyone equates heaven with eternal life. It isn't so much everyone is going to heaven as much as it is NOBODY is going to hell forever. I do believe everyone will live in paradise. There is a difference between paradise and heaven of course. Besides, what exactly is hell anyway? The bible also says that hell will be destroyed! So much for your "eternal" hell. Also it is written "There will be NO MORE PAIN". THERE!!!! That statement is an absolute one, not a relative one. TWI had that one right,(though it's not unique to them) though their reasoning may be a little faulty.
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Here's one that I should have put on my list.
11. I'm a descendant of Richard Stockton,(on my mother's side) one of the signers of The Declaration of Independence, he was a lawyer from New Jersey.
12. My father was born on Independence Day.
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Sunesis, I understand where you are coming from seeing as I have studied the subject of Nephilim myself. Do you believe the Nephilim, if there are any remnants here on earth, will just cease to exist when they die, or will they be awakened for judgement first, then destroyed?
But whatever the case is, I still think God is unlimited in His power, and can change the nature of nephilim from one that is evil, into one that is holy and pleasing to Him. I believe NOTHING is impossible with God. Even if the nephilim are destroyed, God can rebuild them into something and give them a new nature to boot. Look what He did, and will do for us
:)-->. Granted, we are powerless to rebuild from the ruins, but not God. -
Dave, I'm right with brother. Sounds like that Tim guy needs to be exposed for the fraud that he sounds like he is. Your 4 clients are in my thoughts as well.
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quote:
Originally posted by excathedra:my confirmation name is frances
Mine is Michael
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8. I was once on the evening news on TV talking to a reporter about a fire that happened a few doors down from me.
7. I'm left handed
6. I have a fascination with oil company logos, especially the ones from the 1950's. I also had a similar facsination with railroad logos as well. That fascination helped me overcome my fear of trains.
5. I have a fascination with the television test pattern. I especially like to see the ones from other countries. With a little imagination, I could probably draw a real cool one.
4. I once knew the morse code. I'm a little rusty now but still remember most of it. I was also once a shortwave radio enthusiaist. I could spend all night tuning up and down the shortwave bands.
3. I once had a fear of drawbridges. I was afraid one would accidently open while we were crossing it, or my dad would run the red light signal. To overcome that fear, I read all about how they work and actually became fascinated with them.
2. I missed being in the 1989 San Francsico earthquake by exactly 2 months. The quake rocked the bay area world series on Oct. 17th. I had left the bay area after a 2 week vacation on Aug. 17th, exactly 2 months prior to the date. On a side note, while I was there my dad and I went to an Oakland A's game and on the way back we were under the Nimitz freeway at the the same time of day that the quake hit. My dad was a little frustrated at the traffic jam. kindava omen?
1. I have never witnessed anyone getting hit by a car, but was a victim of it myself. I lived like a king the following summer
I have to admit, the horror of such an event is highly exaggerated (from the victim's point of view), but it's an experience I would not want repeated nonetheless. -
An answer to the question begged on this thread:
"Who would be stupid enough to join such a group?"
See??? I answered a question with a question!
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quote:
Originally posted by excathedra:if the sign was green and white, it might not have happened....
i was a leaf, i was a leeeeeeaafffff on a mighty tree
mwah pressed down
I think I just saw a dog pee on that mighty tree.
:D--> :D--> :D--> -
Here's one that would really shake them up:
"I'd rather go to the ball game!"*
* or whatever worldly event you desired, ie. movies, the carnival, etc.
Or better yet: "I'd rather stay home and watch television!" (TV is the devil's tool, remember?)
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Welcome back Rottie,
Well, I find it not uncommon for (former) Way members to get involved in MLM organizations. I was in 2, Amway of course, and another lesser known one, A. L. Williams, which sold life-insurance, and I think is now defunct, the founder, Art Williams I believe now writes books on becoming a millionaire.
With me, I found all those ideas complicated and I never really got the ball rolling, so I quit before I could ever really get started.
Rottie, I don't know what to tell you about those who are deeply involved in it. They must have some sort of success otherwise they would have not gotten so deeply involved.
Heck, the reason I left the Way was because simply it got boring. (the "Athletes of The Spirit" is what did it for me. I never saw such a production so out of touch with reality!) I was never really involved in that cult in the first place, I just attended the meetings, but was still my own person.
The basic premise of those MLMs is a lot like TWI, get more recruits. The more, the merrier. TWI really was into numbers, though they were the first to deny it! And with the internet age in full swing, MLM organizations are popping up like mushrooms! Daily I'm propositioned to join some phony organziaton. Hey, you can only fool me once, you can't fool me a second time!
Another (in)famous MLM is "stuffing envelopes", another trap that lured many TWI people.
Just like the song: "When will they ever learn?...."
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith:Again personal Opinion here.
It says that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived. He walk into it with his eyes wide open. He knew what he was doing. Eve did not. That would make the sin Adam’s and not Eve’s.
A classic example of man thinking with his penis, no doubt
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Originally posted by Sunesis:Now, the Bible does talk about Nephilim and descendants - those people of "iron" who will see no resurrection, those people who are the tares - but that's another thread.
Hi Sunesis,
Well, you and I agree about 99% except for that piece of logic. I have the teaching John Schoenheit (of CES) gave on Genesis Six. So I'm familiar with that study. However I also believe that NOTHING is impossible with God.
The question I ask you is that the Nephilim will see NO resurrection whatsoever, not even unto judgement?????? In otherwords, they die once, never to be seen again?? I might be able to accept THAT logic, but John Schoenheit does teach that they are going to be judged. I assume that it is necessary that they should be conscious of this judgement, so a resurrection is in order. But then I could be wrong, they could be judged without their knowing it, so they will just plain die, never to rise again, not even to be made aware of their judgement.
Now why would God destroy them in their evil nature, and not rebuild them in a holy and acceptable nature???? Why even judge them if the final outcome is total destruction????
But then again we ARE talking about angels rather than men. But what about the freakish offspring???? They also have a human nature that God wills to save. So what happens? Perhaps their evil side will be destroyed, and anything that is pure will come about in the outcome.
One more interesting thing to point out, according to Schoenheit's teaching, there are NO Nephilim left here on earth. I guess that's a load off OUR minds, eh Sunesis
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Originally posted by def59:I agree he died for all mankind. I just cannot find it in scripture where everybody gets in the door. Jesus says narrow is the path to heaven, but wide is the path to destruction.
It is written, "as ALL died in Adam, so shall ALL be made alive in Christ".
If Hitler is not going to be made alive in Christ, then in whom did he die? Adam? NO CHANCE! If Hitler died in Adam, then he is going to be made just as alive in Christ as you and I. PERIOD!!! So in order for Hitler not to be made alive in Christ, he would have had to die by some other fashion. Is a life in Christ hell??? Perhaps in the mind of the wicked, it will start out that way, which would of course be his punishment. But as the chaff is burned away, a righteous nature will emerge. Hey, how was YOUR OWN conversion, def??? Was it all peaches and cream????? Then either you were a good little boy (It is written, "There is nobody righteous, NO NOT ONE!), or your appointment with judgement is actually pending. Maybe you won't get the punishemt Hitler is worthy of, but you will have to face judgement just the same. (It is also written, "Whoever does great evil will get many lashes, but he who does very little evil will only get a few") And the sin in your own life will have to be dealt with.
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CKnapp3 asks "Who told you God cannot be mocked?? Of course he can be mocked. But that's not the topic here."
Def59's answer: CKanpp, here's where I got it from. Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Sin will be found out.
Def, number one, almost everyone disregards the context of that verse in Galatians chapter 6. Back to that in a moment.
Number two, verse 7 of Galatians, chapt. 6 is poorly worded. Not to mention you misread the verse. (what version of the bible are you using?). It should read: "be not deceived, God is not being mocked, for whatever a man sows, also shall he reap." It doesn't imply that God cannot be mocked, only that he IS (PRESENT TENSE!!!!!) not (the word "being" is missing from that verse and should be there) mocked. The word "is" doesn't imply capabilty, but rather state of being. (Any English scholar should know THAT)
While it is true that what goes around comes around, the context was talking about a bible student giving tribute to his teacher. Read the verse proceeding verse 7, and the verse afterward. People thought that a bible student giving tribute to his teacher was in fact mocking God. (And incidently, not to justify VPW, but there was nothing wrong with us giving him tribute also per se, because at the time we thought him to be a teacher of sound doctrine. Only difference is we now know better, seeing VPW was NOT sowing to the spirit, but to his flesh!) The context was advising us that such tribute is acceptable to God and is not a form of mockery.
Still think God cannot be mocked????? What the hell do you think IDOLATRY is??????? That is the BASEST form of God mockery. If God cannot cannot be truly mocked, then why does He say he is a JEALOUS God, when it comes to idol worship??????
quote:
Webster's definition of "mock":
Main Entry: mock
Pronunciation: 'm? 'mok
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French mocquer
transitive senses
1 : to treat with contempt or ridicule : DERIDE
2 : to disappoint the hopes of
3 : DEFY, CHALLENGE
4 a : to imitate (as a mannerism) closely : MIMIC b : to mimic in sport or derision
It's the 4th definition that applies to the context of Galatians, though God could definitely be "mocked" in any of the 4 definitions given.
So I'm afraid you're misguided in your understanding of Galatians, chapt. 6.
quote:
CKnapp3 said: As far as judging God in human terms, I think you did just that def. It's man who wants to send his enemies to hell believe it or not, _NOT GOD!!!!_
Def's answer: Again, you miss my point. I believe God wants ALL men to be saved, but we know not everyone will believe. People reject God all the time.
Did not Jesus say he would confess before the father those who confessed him in public. And is not the opposite true?
Defendant: "Lord, didn't I confess your name before men in public??" (and really, he did!)
Jesus: "Depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you!"
The defendant's consequence of course is not getting a crown or any inheritance, he will still however get to live as a citizen in paradise.
What point did I miss? Of course people reject God all the time, AND SO DID YOU until you were given the gift of the Holy Spirit! This fact applies to ALL OF US!!!!
quote:
But if people die in their sins, that's it.
And if there is no punishment for unbelief, why should any of us want to serve God anyway? If we are going to go heaven anyway, why believe, love, live right or treat people nice?
It seems to me this doctrine comes from a dark place. It seems to make sense in this age of tolerance, but something doesn't sound right.
For starters, God has concluded US ALL in unbelief!!!!! So I guess we will all be punished now
:D-->So the only reason you live a righteous life is to gain entry into heaven??? Sounds like you are lacking a heart. Maybe that's what you want YOUR heaven to be like. But what about God's??? People who are truly kind hearted don't need a cheap incentive to do right by their fellow man. They are motivated exclusively by love!
This doctrine comes from a dark place????? Hmmm, didn't Jesus warn about calling light darkness, and calling darkness light?? If Jesus would accuse me of calling the beliefs I hold darkness that I'm calling light, then He's got a lot of explaining to do. This casting out people you don't like sounds more like darkness. The Pharisees were champions at that. You say it doesn't sound right???? That's because I think you desire a heaven of your own design, and I think we were all guilty of doing that at one time or another. But that's only human nature to want our enemies removed from our society. Remember, that we are to forsake our human nature and walk spiritually. Jesus said to "love your enemies". Also, if you are an heir to The Kingdom, then you are going to decide the fate of those being judged. Def, answer me this, are you going to judge those before you the way God judged you????? Or are you going to be like the unmerciful debtor in that parable????
What did Jesus and Abel have in common????
Both were MURDERED!
Abel,(who is a sinner) says: "Avenge my enemies!"
Jesus,(who is sinless) says: "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do!"
quote:
Yes every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but that is not equal to everyone being saved.
People who rejected God here, will see him for who he is at the white throne. But I believe it will be too late.
That is why I want people to come to know God now. There might not be a second chance.
Who in the hell told you that you are saved by CHANCE??????? It's by GRACE you are saved!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT CHANCE!!!!!!! How many times do I have to say this????
--> Do you take God to play a game of roulette, putting our very lives at risk???? Besides, anyone who plays gambling games to gain riches obviously makes money their god (soverign), instead of being Lord over their money, and anyone who knows about gambling can tell you, the house has the advantage!!!!! Therefore for God to play roulette with our lives at stake would definetly make God bow down to our sovereignty. And Satan, who would be the "house" in this case has definitely the advantage. Some God!!!!!!!! That kind of God isn't even worthy to urinate on, let alone worship!!!! If that's your God, you can have him!!!! And the idea that "tomorrow is too late" is not even biblical, why do people insist otherwise?????
In closing let me ask the following question: Is it true NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE with God????
YES???? Then is it impossible for God to change Hitler from a notorious and evil tryant to quite possibly the holiest saint you ever met????
NO you say???? Next question: Why won't God do it then???? Is he a respecter of persons after all??????
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E-mail Scams
in Open
I get similar letters, but its usually from a lawyer representing someone from Outer Solobovia (ie.) who was killed with his wife in a car crash. There are no apparent heirs to his forutne, so he hopes to give the money to you.
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Well, lemme think:
10. I was once on a local kid's TV show in San Francisco when I was 10 (for those who were in the SF bay area in 1966, it was the Mayor Art show on KRON-TV, Ch. 4.)
9. I once met Bing Crosby when he pulled into the Shell station I was working at. He was apparently on his way to Napa, I think for the Silverado Open Golf tournament there.
more to follow....
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quote:
Originally posted by def59:To say all will be saved no matter what disgraces Christ's sacrifice.
Actually def, the opposite it true, the damnation of any person disgraces the sacrifice of Christ. And if Christ didn't die for them, maybe he didn't die for you either.
quote:
God is loving, but he is also just and cannot be mocked. Too often we judge him in human terms and cannot fathom how a loving God could send anyone to hell/punishment. But because he is just and loving, full of mercy slow to wrath, he has to judge and there are consequences for unbelief.
Who told you God cannot be mocked?? Of course he can be mocked. But that's not the topic here.
As far as judging God in human terms, I think you did just that def. It's man who wants to send his enemies to hell believe it or not, NOT GOD!!!!
Def, did you know we are all EQUALLY GUILTY????. Therefore why should YOU be saved, and not Hitler? Hitler killed 6,000,000 Jews. It it weren't for God's grace, YOU might want to kill 100,000,000,000 people, who knows??? Don't take this personally def, I speak for all of us.
:)-->quote:
Yes every knee will bow and every tongue confess, but that is not equal to everyone being saved.
If those people are not saved, then why would they bow their knees and confess the Lord Jesus? Are they being FORCED to do it??? HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO FREE WILL???????
:D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> -
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Originally posted by dmiller:Didn't know about Biblical Universalism (had heard the term, that's all), until I took a look at http://www.biblicaluniversalism.com.
Not sure I agree with it, but there are some interesting pros and cons there.
Dave, I checked that website out. It appears Neal Punt's definition of biblical universalism is quite different from what is generally taught in that light.
According to Punt, There are few who will be hopelessly damned, but not before the gospel is made crystal clear to them, to which they will willfully reject. I personally find it impossible to believe that anyone can be so stupid as to knowingly and willfully reject a salvation so great. That's like someone in the Sahara Desert dying of thirst, and along comes someone with a nice huge jug of ICE COLD WATER, and the person just plain refuses it.
Hey, people who well fed and eat daily don't particularly like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. After all, why eat peanut butter and jelly when you can have a couple of nice juicy hamburgers???? But let that same person go hungry for 3 days, and that peanut butter and jelly sandwich becomes much to be desired!!!!!! So when a person is desparately hungry, he will eat anything that is food. He is not going to continue to the point of starvation when there's food to eat, even if it's base. Therefore, I find a person, who sees his condition as a sinner and God's goodness for what it is quick to forgive, ready to repent.
After all, the goodness of God leads to repentenance. Who in their right frame of mind rejects God's goodness when they see it and know it?
Incidently, here's a better website that deals with the subject of universal salvation.
After reading more into Neal Punt's website, I find he's not a universalist at all by definition. He is in fact a Calvinist, who put a different spin on the subject of universalism.
He has to reject the idea that "every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord", which is one of the main themes of true biblical universalism. For according to Punt, and Def59 for that matter, some will not bow and confess at all.
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Def, here's a question for you:
If God's will is for ALL men to be saved, and God's will is not going to be fulfilled because of man's alledged free will, then why bother living a Christian life? If God's will IS NOT GOING TO BE FULFILLED, there's clearly no profit to living a life that is holy and pleasing to God, except perhaps to satisfy one's OWN SELFISH MOTIVES.
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quote:
Originally posted by def59:But if everyone gets to go to heaven anyway or least live eterally, then why did Christ die in the first place? Why did Christ command us to live a certain way if, in the end, we all get some sort of eternity with him anyway?
That is a common question that is asked by those who oppose the universalist beliefs.
For one thing Christ was slain BEFORE THE FOUNDATAIONS OF THE WORLD! The manifestiation of it took place 2000 years ago maybe, but in reality it happened perhaps billions of years ago.
It's all part of God's plan, he mapped it out that way, including the creation of Satan. I can't answer why God planned it this way, maybe he will tell us someday, but Jesus' destiny to die was forordained long before the fall at Eden.
Yes, Christ did command us to live a certain way, but why??? So we can go to heaven??? That's an awful selfish reason to live a righteous life, and therefore you have probably already deviated your mission!!!!!! There are people called to salvation now to carry out the mission of reconciliation. Most Christians have deviated that mission, placing man responsible for his own salvation, when the bible makes it crystal clear man CANNOT SAVE HIMSELF!!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if a man died in his sins, so to speak, if only a person would have said a kind word to heal his heart. Instead that same person admonished him that he was in danger of a horribly unimaginable doom and that he was responsible to take action to avert such a fate (usually such responsiblity comes in the form of "giving your life to Jesus") Well that messenger has now got to answer to God as to why he didn't give a kind word to that person, and may even have to answer why he gave an admonishment instead.
So you see, the real disciples of Christ are the ones responsible for carrying out the mission that WILL ABSOLUTELY fulfill God's will of ALL MEN BEING SAVED.
Furhtermore, what reward should a person get for telling someone that he's doomed and needs to believe in Jesus? He's lucky to get to live in paradise, with NO REWARDS.
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quote:
Originally posted by def59:Universalism has a nice ring to it and appeal. But while Jesus died once for all, he also knows his sheep and not everyone is a sheep. I would like everyone to be, but God is the final judge.
Salvation was once the sphere of the Jews, now it is open to all.
But if everyone gets to go to heaven anyway or least live eterally, then why did Christ die in the first place? Why did Christ command us to live a certain way if, in the end, we all get some sort of eternity with him anyway?
This biblical universalism sounds more like purgatory to me.
And what's wrong with purgatory Def? I think you posted this to address me personally, so now I'm here to answer.
Jesus himself said that "no man can come to me except that the father draws him to me". It is in human nature to "reject Jesus". Without the grace of God, we are all nothing but a bunch of Hitlers.
It is also written By grace ye are saved, through faith, it is NOT OF YOURSELVES, it its THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST!!!!!" (empahsis mine)
It is also written that God will do EVERYTHING according to the counsel of HIS WILL.
If anyone is going to "hell", then it was God's will all along, which is the official belief of Calvinism. Then God lied because he falsely testified that he wills all men to be saved, only to send a majority of them to hell instead. Calvinism is partially correct in that salvation is exclusively of God's own doing. Calvinism is wrong to say though that God is arbitrary and will choose to send people to "hell" for all eternity, just for the hell of it.
NOBODY has ever rejected Christ by his so-called own free will. Men are nothing but decandent sinners by nature, and without the grace of God he is just plain totally depraved!!!!!
We were born in sin!!!!!! We didn't choose to sin, contrary to popular belief.
Now this is God's ballgame and plan. If God wills Adolf Hitler to be saved, then HE WILL BE SAVED!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! Will Hitler have to give account for what he did? ABSOLUTELY!!!!
You opponents to universalism seem to have the impression that we believe everyone just escapes judgement. NOT SO! But judgement properly administered TEACHES RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!!!!!
So God wills all men to be saved, but it just isn't going to happen because men's free will rejects salvation you say. What?? Is God powerless, so weak in fact that man's free will is mightier??? Also who is The Soverign? Man or God????
Or maybe God can save everyone, he just doesn't want to (belief of Calvinism). Then God is not infinite in mercy and love.
People that oppose universal salvation are just arguing their own interpretation of the bible anyway. Ok, "Chuck, what do you think you are doing?" At least my interpretation puts God in a positive light, all merciful, all loving, and all powerful, and has made it clear that his will is going to be done! The interpretation of others demeans God, and puts man up as a soverign.
I guess if I made myself sovereign like most men have done, I too would think God will only save a few.
And if Hitler is not going to be saved, then what assurance do you have that you will be?? Because you "accepted Jesus"? Jesus himself said that "not everyone who calls me Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he WHO DOES MY FATHER'S WILL"
And what IS the father's will? If God wills all men to be saved, then your calling is to preach the GOSPEL (which means GOOD NEWS) all of mankind. Most preachers preach admonishments of fate, and such a fate is beyond reality (burn forever in hell????), not to mention fairness. Hey, doesn't the world already oppress you???? Why be like the world? The bible says we should not be conformed to this world, be transformed by the renewing of our minds, that we may PROVE what is acceptable to God. Yet most Christians are conformed to this world, and they are too oblivious too see that fact.
If I tell someone his sins have been forgiven, and that he is saved, and he scoffs at me, what makes you people think he's going to listen to you when you threaten unreal fates like burn forever in hell???
But I do agree some people are so damned depraved that this is the only way they can see God's goodness, is to contrast it by the worst thing IMAGINABLE (yes, burn forever in hell is definitely the worst thing IMAGINABLE, but it doesn't make it real however!). But I prefer not to be taught by people who are clearly depraved.
Def, you talk about Jesus knowing his sheep. For one thing, I don't think everyone will inherit The Kingdom of Heaven, which is what you are equating living in paradise with. That is incorrect thinking. You can still live in paradise and not inherit The Kingdom.
You also probably want to quote verses that talk about people being cast into outer darkness, where's there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. Be it known, that this is a warning TO THE CHURCH, NOT THE WORLD!!!!!! The people in question were those who were appointed to carry out a mission of proclaiming the ministry of reconciliation and instead of performing the tasks that they should have, they deviated from it instead.
You people who are looking forward to rewards, take heed, you might come up empty handed. But be of good cheer nonetheless, for you will still get to live in paradise.
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Will be thinking of you Vickles.
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Rattlesnake: Come over here, little mouse, I won't eat you.
Mouse: Oh no, Mr. Rattler, you will bite me and then eat me.
Rattlesnake: Oh, but little mouse, I'm changed, I don't eat mice anymore.
Mouse: You serious?
Rattlesnake: Sure, come on over little mouse.
Mouse: You promise you won't even so much as bite me?
Rattlesnake: I promise
::::The little mouse moves over towards the rattlesnake, and then..........
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;
;
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......The rattlesnake strikes the mouse and prepares to eat him.:::::::
Mouse: Hey, you promised you wouldn't bite me!!!!!
Rattlesnake: But ah little mouse, YOU KNEW WHAT I AM!!!!!!
::::The rattlesnake finishes eating the mouse.::::::
Biblical Universalism
in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Posted
Then Def, the bible is a blatant lie because it promised the ABSOLUTE defeat of Satan. According to what you believe, if it holds true, than Satan is anything but defeated! Why he has won most of the souls and will get to torutre them for eternity.
You no doubt buy into this freedom of will thing, which would no doubt show man's sovereignty over God's. You sound like a die hard Calvinist to think everyone will live forever, only many will be endlessly torutured. Does this make you happy? Would you enjoy seeing your enemies tortured forever in hell? NO you say???? You sure approve of the God who would sentence such a person to a horribly imagined (AND I DO MEAN IMAGINED) fate. Why? Because in your own heart, you truly hate your enemies, so much so that you would love to see them tortured forever.
Also there you go with that CHANCE bulls**t again. For the last time it's GRACE!!!!!
I see you as someone who no doubt hates sound doctrine, and will do everything he can to justify his own hate filled arguments. What?? You accuse ME of hating sound doctrine??? DO NOT CALL BURN FOREVER IN HELL SOUND DOCTRINE!!!!!!! IT IS NOT SOUND DOCTRINE!!!!! IT'S ONLY THE DOCTRINE OF MADMEN AND EVIL HEARTS!!!!!!
Just because The Way was wrong doesn't mean that mainstream Christianity is right. It's in deed wrong. It's only that The Way is just as wrong.
In fact, I see you so ignorant, you don't even know why the fire in that lake is even burning with brimstone!
Tell me Def, are you anti-abortion??? Why, so that life can end up in hell like you would like it to be?? I can't think of any other reason you would want to spare an unborn child except to sacrifice it to Satan yourself. If there is an ever burning hell, then abortion is a SACRAMENT!!!!!
You blame a sinner for something that isn't even his fault. HOW DARE YOU!!!!!! Your own bible makes it crystal clear that we are born in sin. Don't give me this "free will" crap! Nobody sins by his own free will, and there is no bible verse you can use to argue otherwise, and if there is, then that shows how inconsistent the bible is and therefore cannot be a reliable source for truth of its own self.
As far as I'm concerned YOU have fallen from grace, since you want to be justified by your works, done by YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So you believe God will reject those who reject Him? Then consider yourself rejected of God, since you reject Him yourself. What??? You don't reject God??? Def, you might as well confess you are not a sinner, which would of course be a blatant lie! Why would you accept a Jesus you don't need if you are sinless???? I would say that Romans, Chapt. 1, would definitely apply to you!!!!! The base problem with you Def is no doubt PRIDE!!!! You are too proud to have someone like Hitler in paradise with you, even if God could transform Hitler into a saint. You are too proud to even forgive Hitler. If you don't forgive, then how dare you expect forgiveness yourself???? And if you won't preach mercy unto all, how dare you expect mercy??? As it is written, blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy! You sound to me like someone who lacks mercy. "But they haven't repented", you say. Hey, Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, and they were ANYTHING BUT REPENTANT!!!!
But I do understand Def, you cannot forgive if you have been forgiven very little. And you cannot be mericful if you haven't been given very much mercy. I think the problem is in the God you choose to serve. He sounds like a control freak, much worse than VPW or LCM. Believe me, I'm not surprised that you rebut me in my beliefs, becuase they are not popular ones, but then Jesus wasn't popular either. You definitely won't preach a God of mercy and forgiveness if you are the subject of one who is merciless and unforgiving.
Im not going to continue responding to you much longer, because I'm convinced all you want to do is debate me, which is one of the works of the flesh believe it or not. (The Greek word for "strife" in Galatians 5:20 is "eris", which can also be translated "debate"! There! I even quoted some scripture with a reference. Satisfied?) Therefore I can safely conclude that you are not going to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven yourself according to Galatians Chapt. 5 (You show to have a problem with Galatians from a previous post in this thread).
While we are on the subject of Galatians Chapt. 5, notice also the Fruits of the Spirit mentioned, particularly gentleness and goodness. I have concurred with you that your salvation is sure, but you resent me when I also extend such gentleness and goodness to our enemies. Why did you rub my nose in it? Do you hate the Fruits of the Spirit that much?? Hey, I have had a lot of enemies, and nobody wants to be vindicated more than me! (If a Jew knew what I went through growing up, they would make me an honorary Jew!
) But there is no profit in subjecting one's enemies to endless torture, not to mention the fact that you might have to face such a punishment yourself if you wish such on others. As it is also written, "with what mete you measure it, it will be measured unto you!" In short, you are going to be judged according to the standards of your own judgements. Don't want to go to hell??? Then you better purge yourself of such beliefs!!!! Want mercy? Then purge yourself of a merciless heart (or ask God to purge it from you).
If you want to learn about universal salvation, fine, I'll be more than happy to share my faith with you. But if you are only looking for a debate and to find fault, you are just wasting my time, and your own.