jen-o

hi jeff, i would like to know how eyesopen was "attacked"... i am really the only one who had a conversation with her about this topic... and although i disagreed with her, i fail to see how anything i said could be construed as a personal "attack"... peace, jen-o

well... i am not an apologist for chuck smith... or for any MAN... and i think that looking to find a MAN to credit the "jesus movement" with is the wrong approach... imo, God is the one who gets the credit for this movement... but i hardly think that church history needs to be "rewritten" due to a man who was involved for only 4 years (according to one of the links) calvary chapel is still going strong 40 years later and there are calvary chapels all over the world... so i think it is quite an exaggeration to say that cc "owes it's livelihood and congregation" to one man... also, according to the first link, lonnie is the one who decided to leave calvary chapel... after he came back a year later, lonnie was rehired by calvary chapel... but "it didn't work," and lonnie decided to "move on"... i only mention this because someone said that lonnie's "people were stolen" and that lonnie was cast out of these 2 churches... (btw, i don't believe that people belong to a man) i do think that the movie link, especially, over-romanticizes the contribution of men... specifically, one man... of course, both links are written with their own slant... still, i don't think they portrayed lonnie in such a favorable light... the movie link portrayed lonnie as an extremely "bitter" man... and the other link showed him caught up in the "frenzy-like" emotional experiences of "signs and wonders"...

hi now i see! after i left twi, i did quite a bit of church-hopping... but not before i first checked out the various offshoots: ces, cff, geer, and one other offshoot that i don't remember the name of... the people seemed nice enough (on a surface level anyway), but the meetings were deader than dead... they might as well have held them in a mausoleum... they were full of empty, meaningless ritual... and blatant idolatry!.. in one rather large house, a whole room had been set up to honor and memorialize vpw (and that's where they held the "fellowships")... it really creeped me out... there were statues of vpw, paintings of vpw, and numerous other vpw artifacts that lined the wall-to-wall bookshelves and decorated the room... the meetings followed the twi format, the teachings were worthless, and God was absent!... all i found was ritualized idolatry in these "offshoots"... you are quite accurate in your assessment that they are "blind"... peace, jen-o

ces, geer... doesn't this apply to cff as well?

i don't know who lonnie is, but i think that chuck smith started the calvary chapel movement... p.s. and i would never compare chuck smith to vpw...

i agree, skywatcher... :) and thank you for your post, wing... :) peace, jen-o

hi now i see!nice to meet you! now about this statement... hmmm... i'm not sure about this... i think it might be possible to "be bad all the time" i'm thinking aloud here... the false prophets and false teachers in 2nd peter chapter 2 sound like they are "bad all the time"... they sound rotten to the core... false prophets/false teachers do teach the bible although they put their own perverted twist on it... false prophets/false teachers even do signs and wonders... Jesus called the pharisees and sadducees a generation of vipers... and said that they "shut up the kingdom of heaven against men" for they neither entered in themselves nor allowed others to go in either... that sounds "bad all the time"... Jesus also called them "whited sepulchres" that looked good on the outside but within was "full of extortion and excess and all uncleaness and wickedness"... that also sounds "bad all the time"... i will have to think about this some more, but right now i am leaning in favor of there being some folks who are "bad all the time"... so then the question becomes: was vpw one of them? i think vpw was a false prophet/false teacher... so i would say: yes! peace, jen-o

hey... someone voted to both tax and not tax CO2... :blink:

sounds like: i disagree with you, but i'm not gonna tell you why...i'll just throw you a "hint" and insinuate you are wrong... let me mention my "experience" (maybe that's suppose to add weight to the opinion), but i don't want to get into the details... what is the point of a post that says "i don't want to discuss this" ?!? i've seen this before on another thread: here's my opinion, i've got credentials, but i'm not gonna get into the details of supporting my opinion... this kind of non-argument just cracks me up... do people really think that this kind of unsupported opinion really adds anything to the conversation? p.s. people who don't want to support their opinion seem extremely defensive...

well, hey there arkie ron!long time no see! let me give you a hug ((arkie ron)) :) it's good to see you again! ron, they call this "multicultural education"...of course, if you try to extend that to include the God of the bible, then they call for separation between church and state... you can talk about any "god" you want (that's called tolerance)... except for the biblical God (they cannot tolerate the mention of HIS name) peace to you, my friend, jen-o

mister p-mosh, it's not the poll that makes no sense...it's the UN and governmental agencies around the world which have come up with this "solution" to tax CO2 emitters... then again, their real goal is to redistribute the world's wealth... so i guess it does make sense with regard to that goal... peace, jen-o

linda, imho (or maybe in my not so humble opinion... LOL), vpw had no business ordaining anybody... what was the purpose of "ordaining" folks anyway?... it was an ungodly practice that elevated some members of the body of Christ over others... all members of the body of Christ are "genuinely called-by-God"... the practice of ordination merely helped to create a hierarchy among God's people... with accompanying comparisons about the level of "spirituality" among the individual members... twi was seeped in the doctrine of the nicolaitans, which Jesus states HE hates!... in my experience, God moved more freely when there was no hierarchy and all the folks in my twig were just leaves... you were genuinely healed, but i doubt that it had anything to do with vpw... what does it mean to "minister genuine healing"? God heals! the person praying has no power! i totally disagree with this statement...vpw had as much spiritual insight as balaam! check out 2 Peter 2:13-22 for a description of vpw... this kind of person is not capable of spiritual insight... And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots [they are] and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. peace, jen-o

eyesopen, where and when were you "attacked"? and who "attacked" you? peace, jen-o

doojable, what's so comical about discussing current events? specifically, the manufactured global crisis regarding climate? i don't think the "powers that be" want a report... they want global control, and will use any vehicle they can to get it... (evidently, a climate crisis sounds good right now) peace, jen-o

hi rhino! i'm not sure why some folks seem to be having a problem with your poll... seems pretty straightforward to me... the question is: to tax or not to tax? of course it makes sense to talk about CO2 taxation... since CO2 taxation is what was discussed at the UN conference in bali last year... and you are referencing a CO2 tax bill that is currently being discussed in the senate... how does taxing people stop the climate from changing?!? but i can see the dollar signs in their eyes... anyway, you probably already know how i feel about this issue... LOL (see ron g's thread) i want nothing to do with this goofy religion and its global control... peace, jen-o

ron g, my thoughts exactly! doing your best to "pollute as little as possible" in your own little corner of the world... and being a good steward of God's creation... is NOT the same thing as setting up a religion to honor the creation while ignoring the needs of people... by taxing them for their "carbon footprints" and setting up a global system to redistribute the wealth of the world based on it... i do see that this seems to be quite the hot topic! some folks seem to be quite emotionally invested in global warming/climate change... it borders on religious fervor, imho... hey ron g... did you used to be arkie ron? peace, jen-o

i still go door to door from time to time... (obviously not with twi... LOL) but i think it's fun!

oops... i guess we were posting at the same time... :D thanks again for your analysis!

don, thank you for your thoughtful response and astute analysis... i do agree with you! :) i've often thought that there were 2 separate things going on in twi (like 2 different directions, you might say) although i didn't get involved until 1981, i can relate to what you are saying... in the only twig in my small college town, the people were far removed from all things "HQ-ish"... it was a simple lifestyle with genuine love and genuine signs that followed... not corrupted by vpw... there were also no "way corps" in my first twig... so too with my wow year (81-82) no way corps, small town, no interference from the "top"... maybe that's what made it such a great year! :D seems to me the closer one got to vpw and his "organization", the stranger things became... something just didn't seem quite right... i knew of a couple people back in 81-82 that went into the corps, and there was a marked difference in their personalities when i saw them just one year later... gone were the lighthearted, carefree, loving, innocent, joyful folks i knew... and instead, i saw troubled, anxious, fearful, rigid, almost robotic people in their place... that really bothered me... what the heck happened in the space of one year?!? i think your analogy with the tares is brilliant... and spot on... the problem with "the way" was VPW! =:~o there was an authentic movement of God... and wherever God was allowed to move, He did so... vpw hitched his wagon to that genuine movement of God... but whatever vpw touched became contaminated... and whatever he got his hooks into only served to stifle the move of God... while elevating and institutionalizing vpw's perversions and errors... what a legacy, eh? excellent analysis, don! thanks! and peace backatcha, :) jen-o

mr. don tworry, i'd be interested in your perspective on something (since you were around back in 1970) and it seems to me that the way west and the way east came out of the jesus movement... and may have been part of an authentic move of God... but my question is: do you think that "the way" became corrupt over time?... or was it corrupt right from the start? peace, jen-o

well... global warming/global climate change (whichever term you prefer) is still a manufactured crisis... it's nothing but another step toward global control of earth's population and resources... at the UN conference in bali last year, A global tax on carbon dioxide emissions was urged to help save the Earth from catastrophic man-made global warming at the United Nations climate conference. “Finally someone will pay for these [climate related] costs,” said Othmar Schwank, a global tax advocate. Schwank said at least “$10-$40 billion dollars per year” could be generated by the tax, and wealthy nations like the U.S. would bear the biggest burden based on the “polluters pay principle.” The tens of billions of dollars per year generated by a global tax would “flow into a global Multilateral Adaptation Fund” to help nations cope with global warming, according to the report. The environmental group Friends of the Earth, in attendance in Bali, also advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations on Wednesday. “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,” said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner. Environment Minister Margot Wallstrom said, "Kyoto is about the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." MIT climate scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen warned about these types of carbon regulations earlier this year. "Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." HOW TRUE! this is not about the environment; it is about global control! further, al gore has made it into a religion... upon receiving his 2007 nobel peace prize, gore said: "We face a true planetary emergency. The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity." uh, no, mr. gore, this is NOT one of my spiritual challenges... the manufactured global warming/climate change crisis (cloaked in religious overtones) is nothing but another step toward global control... and the people love to have it so... the people will get what they want...

the climate changes; so what! al gore wants to make a religion out of it!

what a way to pull rank! a very dishonest way, i might add...

biblical understanding?? ROFLMAO biblical understanding & the "way" ministry don't even belong in the same sentence...

i was a short order cook for a quaint restaurant on main steet (very small town)... and i LOVED that job... i learned how to tell if a steak was rare, medium rare, medium, medium well, or well-done just by touch... =:~) and i had that job the whole year... i did have a BA at the time, but still, cooking was fun!