Lightside

did you not show us more about B.G. Lenord or Oral Roberts and their healing ministries? You gracefully showed us the work of E.W. Bullinger, inspite of his trinitarian belief and his belief that the power of God died with the original apostles. You showed us what he taught that was right; and explained his errors. How about Lamsa, clark, Kenyon, Mosley and their truths, inspite of their errors. Why, VP did you not show us the ministry of B.G. and the mighty, mighty miracles he produced, in spite of some of his personal experiences and beliefs. Why? Why? Why not, VP? To this day, there are multiple films and videos of Oral Roberts tent crusades (1947-1963) where hundreds of people were healed. It was done so many times, in these tent crusades, decent and in order. At times, instantaneous miracles of healing, people walking out of wheelchairs, the blind getting their sight back, demoms cast out, cripples walking. All there for us to see, visualize and experience to swell our confidence in God and his power. Why, why, VP did you not show us these things that were available to us, for our learning, for us to see, with our eyes, to build us up and give us confidence to do the works of Christ? Sure, Oral, B.G. had their faults, so did you. They believed differently than you, so did Bullinger, Lamsa, and the bishop from India. I think I have the answer, but it is too dreadful to even speak. Others know......Please tell us.......

Hi Radar, Sherry is stayin' home with the youngin' and Jeff is a foreman for painting company. I don't hear much, but from what I have heard, they are runnin' a home fellowship. (no compensation)

Jeff & Sherry Barney, way corps grads, (2001?), each under thirty-five (but quickly approaching that age), with a corps assignment in South Bend, Indiana (fellowship leaders) HAD THEIR FIRST CHILD, A BABY GIRL, ALYSSA GABRIELLE, in Feb. 2003 and are EXPECTING ANOTHER BAMBENO IN AUGUST, 2004. IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!!! (Rev. John Shroyer married them in 1990)---It took 14 years....but...... Miracles still happen!!!!!!

MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION" How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license with historical events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant, but when another takes special care to be true to the real-life story, he is vilified. Actor-producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths the hard way as he is having difficulty finding a United States studio or distributor for his upcoming film, "The Passion," which depicts the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ. Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie. For the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God." Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics. "I'm trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying to be very real about it." So committed to realistically portraying what many would consider the most important half-day in the history of the universe, Gibson even shot the film in the Aramaic language of the period. In response to objections that viewers will not be able to understand that language, Gibson said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend the language barriers with my visual storytelling; if I fail, I fail, but at least it'll be a monumental failure." To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted the counsel of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. Don Hodel, president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. The movie is historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of the National Evangelical Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who Jesus was." During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass every morning because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." From Gibson's perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's bigger than he is. "I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize." Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson is getting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity...[and] people being healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understand through the movie, if they don't already, the incalculable influence Christ has had on the world. And he grasps that Christ is controversial precisely because of WHO HE IS - GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of my film really, to show all that turmoil around him politically and with religious leaders and the people, all because He is Who He is." Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversial Christ is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie's authenticity, but have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, which Gibson vehemently denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing. '[Jesus] came into the world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that." Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, who translated the script into Aramaic and Latin, said he saw no hint of anti-Semitism in the movie. Fulco added, "I would be aghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless, certain groups and some in the mainstream press have been very critical of Gibson's "Passion." The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel, to tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denounced Gibson's literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithful repetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred," wrote Carroll. A group of Jewish and Christian academics has issued an 18-page report slamming all aspects of the film, including its undue emphasis on Christ's passion rather than "a broader vision." The report disapproves of the movie's treatment of Christ's passion as historical fact. The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work on Christ, make sure it either depicts Him as a homosexual or as an everyday sinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In our anti-Christian culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ" is celebrated and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continues to affect people the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition will suppress its force and its positive impact on lives everywhere. Mel Gibson is a model of faith and courage. Please copy this and send it on to all your friends to let them know about this film so that we'll all go see it when it comes out. ____________________________________________________

A Special Edition of THE LEFT COAST REPORT Mel Gibson & the 'Passion' Attacks By James Hirsen Tuesday, Jan. 27, 2004 A NewsMax Report On Feb. 25, Mel Gibson's epic film "The Passion of the Christ" will appear on thousands of movie screens across the nation. The cinematic launch will occur despite unprecedented attempts to alter its content and thwart its release. The Left Coast Report presents some of the lowlights of the past year in hopes that the heroic resolve and artistic vision of the film's creators can be fully appreciated. Headlines (Scroll down for complete stories): 1. Genesis of a Smear Campaign 2. Unscholarly Conduct 3. Suppression of Expression 4. The Piracy 5. Virtual Hate 6. Poison Pens 7. 'The Passion' and the Pope Advertisement Outlawed for 41 Years-Now Legal Again ** THIS INVESTMENT launched the largest family fortune the world has ever seen--And could return 665% in the next 12 months. Click HERE for the full report. 1. Genesis of a Smear Campaign It all started in January of last year. Mel Gibson appeared on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor." The famed actor-producer-director let the world know that a print reporter was nosing around his family and friends trying to dig up dirt. The reporter was freelance journalist Christopher Noxon. He wrote a hit piece that focused on Gibson's 85-year-old father. The article mischaracterized Mel's beliefs and those of his dad. It also tried to label the film as fringe propaganda. Noxon's dirt-digging expedition might have been related to his family's interest in the same Malibu site where Mel Gibson was building a church. The plot thickened as another group planned a full Gibson assault. 2. Unscholarly Conduct With the help of an individual dubbed in an e-mail "our Deep Throat," a group of academics, who are part of what is known as the interfaith movement, got hold of a stolen early draft of a confidential script. Using ideas and notes from the pilfered preliminary screenplay, the group generated a so-called confidential report that twisted the film's message. Somehow the report landed in the hands of the news media. A number of its authors appeared delighted to have their criticisms aired in public, despite the fact that the report was based on incomplete, dated, confidential and pirated material. In addition to theft, it seems that falsification was also part of the unscholarly game. The group tried to pawn itself off as an official body of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), but the USCCB subsequently issued a statement denying a connection with the anti-Gibson group. Boston University's Paula Fredriksen has been a particularly high- profile player in the anti-"Passion" drama. She has referred to Scripture as "a kind of religious advertisement." She has promoted the idea that the Gospels "proclaim their individual author's interpretation of the Christian message through the device of using Jesus of Nazareth as a spokesperson for the evangelist's position." On Dec. 22, 2001, the Washington Post delivered a sort of un- Christmas present from Fredriksen in the form of a comment about the trustworthiness of the New Testament. The Post quoted her as saying, "I can't think of any New Testament scholar who takes [the Gospel accounts of Jesus' birth] to be historically reliable," adding that most scholars believe that Christ was not born in Bethlehem. It appears as if Fredriksen and friends could be on a mission to deconstruct the Gospels. They prattle on about "progressive interpretation" and "historical context" when it seems that what they really want is a rewrite of the Good Book. Could it be that their real beef with Mel has to do with the fact that he based his movie on the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? "The Passion" saga continued as film-snuffing sights were set on a potential distributor. 3. Suppression of Expression In an effort to persuade Rupert Murdoch's Twentieth Century Fox to decline distribution of Gibson's film, New York Assemblyman Dov Hikind scheduled a press conference and demonstration. The event was supposed to take place in front of News Corp.'s Manhattan headquarters. Twentieth Century Fox usually distributes Gibson's movies, but gave a thumbs-down on "The Passion." As the New York Daily News reported, other Hollywood studios were also less than enthusiastic about taking on the project produced by Icon Productions. Additionally, the New York Times rubbed salt into Icon's wounds by describing the film as chronicling "in bloody detail" the last hours of Jesus' life. It also called it "potentially inflammatory" and "not commercial enough for a high-profile mainstream studio like Fox." In typical Gibson fashion, Mel and the crew gripped the wheel, rode out the bumps and were successful in finding a distributor. Unfortunately, more trouble lay ahead. 4. The Piracy In November of last year, the New York Post illegally obtained a pirated videotape of the Gibson film. Although this revelation is extraordinary in its own right, it's what a major newspaper did with the tape that made ignoble cinematic history. Months before the film's scheduled release, the Post displayed the grainy second-generation videotape to its own assembled panel of critics. Four of the five reviewers who were present slammed the film in the pages of the paper. Oscar-winning director Sydney Pollack put feelings into words in this way. He told E! Online News, "If I had made that picture, I would have felt raped." Evidently the shenanigans weren't just outrageous, they were also illegal. The Los Angeles Times reported that federal authorities launched a probe. Gibson and the folks at Icon had more head and heartache to endure. 5. Virtual Hate Also in November, Anti-Defamation League held its annual meeting in New York. ADL National Director Abraham Foxman let loose with one of the ugliest assaults on Gibson that had occurred to date. He said, "I think he's infected - seriously infected - with some very, very serious anti-Semitic views." These words spewed forth from the leader of an organization that purportedly stands for tolerance. Ironically, instead of modeling a virtue, Foxman ended up demonstrating exactly what hate speech sounds like. In January 2004, uninvited ADL officials registered for a Christian pastors' conference where Gibson's film was set to be shown. They used the fabricated name "The Church of Truth" to gain entrance to the event. After seeing the film, ADL denounced Gibson's picture as a "painful portrayal" and a "commercial crusade to the church community." Most recently, Foxman requested that Gibson attach a disclaimer (drafted by Foxman) to the film denouncing any bigoted interpretation of his narrative. No similar disclaimer has yet been submitted by Foxman for the spurious and insulting remarks he made about Gibson. At the same time Mel and his mates were dealing with ADL matters, they were also experiencing an insidious print blitz. 6. Poison Pens It seems that New York Times arts columnist Frank Rich felt the need to gear up the sleaze machine several times over to generate innuendo. In his Aug. 3 column, Rich got stuck in sludge-slinging overdrive. He wrote that Gibson and his organization had been "baiting Jews," Matt Drudge was a "token Jew," traditionalist Catholics were a "fringe church," Rupert Murdoch was a "conservative non-Jew," Peter J. Boyer's article "sanitizes" Mel's father, Bill O'Reilly was "being paid" to defend Gibson, and Gibson spokesman Alan Nierob "plays bizarre games with the Holocaust." (Rich evidently missed the fact that Nierob is a second-generation Holocaust survivor and a founding member of the U.S. Holocaust Museum.) Rich even tried to take a swipe at me. He claimed to "decode" a section of my book "Tales from the Left Coast," where I supposedly have "a fetish of repeating Bob Dylan's original name." In September, the Jayson Blair understudy heaved more rubbish in Gibson's direction. After a Vatican official (who happens to be on the short list of papal prospects) raved about the movie and dismissed concerns over bigotry, Rich evidently decided to change his focus. Instead of going after the Passion product, he'd try attacking the Passion process. He wrote, "Intentionally or not, the contentious rollout of 'The Passion' has resembled a political campaign, from its start on 'The O'Reilly Factor.'" Getting little traction with that one, Rich tried to jump into a story that involved a higher authority. 7. 'The Passion' and the Pope On Dec. 17, Peggy Noonan of the Wall Street Journal reported that Pope John Paul II had seen Gibson's movie and said, "It is as it was." Noonan had been given a written confirmation for the quote from the pope's official spokesman via e-mail. The same day, National Catholic Reporter's main man at the Vatican, John Allen, reported the identical quote and attributed it to the pontiff. An unnamed senior Vatican official confirmed the quote. The following day, Reuters joined in on reporting the pope's quote and cited an unnamed Vatican source. The Los Angeles Times received its own independent corroboration for the story on Dec. 19. On Dec. 24, Catholic News Service's Cindy Wooden claimed to have talked to "a senior Vatican official close to the pope" who said that the pontiff never said those words. On Jan. 9, Allen reported that he had double-checked his original source and that the pope did indeed say, "It is as it was." Enter once again Frank Rich of the New York Times. On Jan. 18, Rich tossed more journalistic mud pies. He accused Gibson and Steve McEveety of using the pope to make money. The next day Catholic News Service reported that the pope's secretary said that "the Holy Father made no declaration" about the film. Two days later, L.A. Times columnist Tim Rutten apparently signed up to be Rich's Left Coast colleague. He wrote a vile piece that began, "A good Hollywood publicity campaign does not stumble over technicalities - like the truth. Still, it takes a particular sort of chutzpah to put a phony quote in the mouth of Pope John Paul II." Actually it takes a particular sort of chutzpah for a columnist to forget to check his own paper's records before he writes on a subject. On Jan. 23, in a news article, the Times admitted that "last month, the ailing pontiff was quoted as having said after a private screening of the film 'it is as it was.' Asked Dec. 19 whether the quote was reliable, Vatican press secretary Joaquin Navarro-Valls told the Times 'I think you can consider that quote as accurate.'" The truth is that, from the beginning, Icon has had written authorization to go public with the pope's statement on "The Passion of the Christ." My sources have enabled me to confirm the graphic nod with my own eyes. After stories began to emerge that questioned whether the quote was for real, Icon's McEveety immediately e-mailed the official Vatican press secretary and offered to discourage use of the quote. Navarro- Valls responded with an e-mail, which not only reaffirmed that use of the quote was fine but advised McEveety to use the phrase "again and again and again." Even the New York Times on Jan. 20 wrote, "One prominent Roman Catholic official close to the Vatican said today, 'I have reason to believe - and I think - that the pope probably said it.'" So what we have here are four respected news organizations getting independent verification, and Icon Productions getting confirmation, authorization and encouragement, to use the pope's "it is as it was" statement. The way I see it, the Icon team has held fast to the truth and suffered the stripes with amazing grace. The Left Coast Report thinks that, because "The Passion of the Christ" and its people have managed to survive insults, stolen scripts, threats of demonstration, pirated prints and dire predictions, the continuous triumphs are no mere coincidence. The more appropriate term to use would be providential. Editor's Note: Don't forget to check out our sponsor. Click HERE for the full report. Get your FREE copy of James Hirsen's New York Times best selling book Tales from the Left Coast – Click Here Now. Even better, find out about our FREE offer – Click Here Now! The Left Coast Report is compiled by James L. Hirsen and the staff of NewsMax. You can read past Left Coast Reports from the archives - Click Here Now.

Roy, From what I understand, CG took many of VPW's sermons and taped teachings and put them in a book or multiple books. In fact, at one time, the way sold CG's first book in the audiitorium bookstore. As each leaders love for the way wained, their works were systematically "gotten rid of". During the 90's, even the way magazine had large photographs of leadership, where the likes of Vince F. and John L. and Ralph D. were taken out and replaced with other leaders. Not uncommom in common christianity. Remember us being told that Oral Roberts "comprimised on the word" because he joined up with the Methodist chruch. (story goes that he needed the funding to get his college stronger) Well, years later he was "excommunicated" from the Methodist church and many of his college professors were forced, by the Methodist church, to leave (resign) from ORU. Tom B. in Columbus, may know of CG's whereabouts, last heard: Maine. Maybe TB could give you more info.

Author Topic: Mel Gibson's, The Passion-a letter Lightside GS Regular Registered: June 14, 2002 Posts: 210 Mel Gibson's, The Passion-a letter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very interesting letter written by Dr. Dobson's daughter about the new movie of the last 12 hours of Jesus Christs earthly life. This letter was written by the daughter of James Dobson. It was written after a private screening she and her father had of "The Passion", Mel Gibson's movie about Christ's final hours. Dear Friends: A couple months ago, I had the unique privilege of accompanying my family to Mel Gibson's studio to see a private screening of his film, The Passion. Many of you have probably heard about this portrayal of the last 12 hours in the earthly life of Jesus Christ. I can say that The Passion is the most beautiful, profound, accurate, disturbing, realistic, and bloody depiction of this story that I have ever seen! It is truly amazing, and it left all of us speechless for a few minutes when it was over. Mr.. Gibson entered the room during the last ten minutes of the screening, and stayed for an hour to discuss the content and to answer questions. He's hoping that my dad and Focus on the Family will help promote it, and my dad has (without question!) agreed to do so. Mr.. Gibson expressed a concern about his position in the entertainment industry, and said that this film will affect his status from here on. When asked why he made the movie, he said that he had no choice in the matter--he felt called to the assignment, and he was determined to carry it out. Questions had been raised as to whether he can find a distributor. Asked about it at the screening, Mr.. Gibson said confidently, "Oh, I'll find a distributor!" The Passion should not be labeled a religious film, or something to be shown only in churches. Compared with examples of recent Christian films, like Left Behind, The Passion is a work of high art and great storytelling. The rough cut I saw contained graphic scenes, including the seemingly endless scourging of Jesus. The crucifixion scene is long, bloody and painful to watch. It's very disturbing, but it's also moving at the same time. While I was taking all of this in, I was thinking, "Christ did this for ME, and he would have gone through it if I was the only one in all the world, and the same goes for each person who has ever lived!" To those in the Jewish community who worry that the film, which is scheduled for release next Easter season ('04), might contain anti-Semitic elements, or encourage people to persecute Jews, fear not. The film does not indict Jews for the death of Jesus. It is faithful to the New testament account. Also, Mr.. Gibson, a devout Roman Catholic, does not elevate Mary beyond what Scripture says of her, which will broaden the film's appeal to Protestants. The dialogue is in Aramaic and Latin. English subtitles are provided, and they are very helpful in following the story line. A decision about using them in the final version has not been made. My family and I tried to persuade Mr.. Gibson to leave the subtitles in, and my dad pointed out that those who are unbelievers (or those who are weak in their understanding) will have no idea of what's going on in the flashback scenes of Jesus' life without subtitles. In The Passion, few liberties are taken with the Gospel account, and the extra dialogue added helps round out the characters without damaging historical or Biblical accuracy. Satan is cleverly played as an asexual being who at first seems to be an observer in the Garden of Gethsemane (and other scenes), but then becomes a snake slithering between the character's feet and attempting to wrap itself around the arm of the prostrate and praying Jesus. The film is an intense two hours. It uses unknown actors, which keeps the focus on the message. By the end of the film (a unique portrayal of the Resurrection), the viewer is exhausted! Thirteen years ago, actor Mickey Rooney wrote an editorial for Variety in which he said, "The onscreen depiction of religion is less than flattering, and, as a Christian, I pray the era of denigrating religion on screen comes to a screeching halt. And soon." His prayer has been answered in The Passion. It is a soul-stirring film that deserves wide distribution and viewing. Its message is not just for Christians, but for everyone. I hope you all will support Mel Gibson's bold and courageous effort to portray the sacrifice that our Lord made for us. Pass this email on, if you feel led, and be sure to see The Passion when it comes out. Yes, it is a disturbing film, but every person should see this realistic depiction of what Christ did for them! Blessings to you, Danae Dobson More about the movie from Paul Harvey The majority of the media are complaining about this movie. Now Paul Harvey tells "The Rest of the Story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson. Most people would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews that have been issued by the reporters trying to tell all of us what to believe. Paul Harvey's words: I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions. I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced. In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth. One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of the Revelation. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love. At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus". I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth. We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it! -- Paul Harvey [This message was edited by Lightside on January 22, 2004 at 13:51.] posted December 11, 2003 20:46 Watered Garden Knows the menu too well From: The Heart Of It All Registered: June 13, 2002 Posts: 281 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll go see it for sure. I think Mel Gibson has developed as a man and an actor a lot over the years. His faith has undoubtedly played a part in that. With all of the ultra-liberaland ultra-vocal Hollywood elite, I think Gibson has a lot of guts to carry out his mission. WG posted December 11, 2003 21:13 year2027 I'm fine, really From: Radcliff, Ky USA Registered: September 28, 2003 Posts: 717 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God God loves Lightside Hi Lightside I look forward to seeing it Thanks with love Roy posted December 11, 2003 21:17 BelieversTrumpet GS Regular Registered: October 11, 2002 Posts: 93 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I cannot wait to see it. Although I doubt it will show the four others crucified with him. posted December 11, 2003 21:20 Goey Chat Room Repair Guy From: Texas Registered: June 07, 2002 Posts: 1579 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't really care about the four others or two others or however many there were. It's the guy in the middle that I am interested in. Goey "Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened" posted December 11, 2003 21:33 A la prochaine I'm fine, really From: The Northland! Registered: September 07, 2002 Posts: 904 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lightside, Thanks for posting that letter. I can't wait to see it. I am an avid Mel fan and have always found him an incredible actor and director. Whenever Mel decides to do a film and wants to tell a story ... you better move over and take note. It will move you, it will overwhelm you. ALA's top 5 picks of Mel movies... #1 Braveheart #2 The Year of Living Dangerously #3 The Bounty #4 The Man Without A Face #5 Ransom & Lethal Weapon (the 1st one) 'til the next time... posted December 11, 2003 21:37 Littlehawk Needs a hobby From: Shepherdsville,Kentucky Registered: June 13, 2002 Posts: 398 amen goey! posted December 11, 2003 23:17 Ginger Tea Postaholic From: West Coast (so west, she gets her toes wet) Registered: June 07, 2002 Posts: 2568 He looked just like my Ex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...I'll wait and you all can tell me about it. Yeah, Goey, that's right ~ who really cares about the p.r. of twi. posted December 12, 2003 00:07 Kevlar2000 GS Regular Registered: June 14, 2002 Posts: 85 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A side note - I love it when the various groups start frothing at the mouth about a movie they didn't even bother to see. It just makes me want to see it all that much more. Kevlar - Not thick, just impenetrable. posted December 12

God bless Ted. Was it his birthday on the 13th? Good Old Ted sang a few songs for us at our fellowship 110

Shannon was my area leader in Rhode Island, 1977. I think it was her interm year in the corps??? She lived in Craaaanston, what a girl.... Ask her if she remembers the patio collapse PFAL experience, a miracle of God's grace. Congrats, 20 years, It's a miracle in these days and times.

Around 1992-93, we had our Ohio limb meeting on a believers farm. The fools charged each believer $1.00 TO GET IN. As they closed the outdoor meeting, the limb leader said, "you can go to your cars now". As we were strolling toward our cars, the same limb leader got on the mircophone and shouted at the top of his lungs: "Hurry up, move it" My wife says to me: "Now, that's what I call the love of God" They just had to make a buck on everything.

After VP's death, a corps grad, from my fellowship, went to Emporia for a week or two to study the book of Revelations. The corps grad came back with info on "The science of believing" and info on Revelations, even taught at my fellowship on it. (Rewards) I would say around the years of 1986-87. So, from what I learned, atleast the research people in the ministry had an interest in the subject of This revelation. Anyone here attend that meeting in Emporia?

Can a human think two completely different sets of thoughts at the same time? Speak in tongues (an unknown tongue) and pray in english (a known tongue) at the same time. When you do it, it feels like you have two brains. Please explain this to da simple folk here....

Silently to yourself, pray in tongues and pray in your own language, similtaneously. It might seem difficult, at first, but concentrate, a little, and try it. I wonder if praying this way, gives you double the power, double the results.... Give it a try and let us know whatsha think of it.

Oak, I think Dale Sides did, raised someone from the dead. He saw multiple miracles when he went to India. Wouldn't be surprised if he (DS) healed someone of blindness. I saw DS calm a storm (Cape Cod, 1977) Also a instantaneous healing of a broken finger, same year. If there was ever anyone with the belief that God can do anything, it was DS Any followers of DS know?

I was dead in trespasses and sin. and blind in my understanding of God and His Chirst. Then, God raised me up to a newness of life and opened the eyes of my understanding, so I could see my Christ. Yep, been dead, been blind, but now I see. Now I have LIFE Yes, a blind man, me, was raised from among the dead to life

Hows the old boy doin'? Expectin' the best.... Explain what you have seen....... God has the authority to do what HE wants, even beyond our little faith. Many of us thought that God only worked between our little earballs. OH, we were sooooooo wrong. Share the news.......

Here is a good example: A friend calls you at 1:35 in the morning.... Saying that they just got a call from a friend... Saying that your mother and father, traveling in their car, two thousand miles from home..... Just got into a terrible car accident..... Your friend doesn't know what hospital they are going to...... Or what was the extent of their injuries.... He just said, "I was told it was bad"..... You don't know exactly where your parents are.... Or what kind of shape they are in..... This happens a 1000 times a day in America..... So you begin to pray, in English...... What do you pray, with clearness and concern? What specific prayer do you pray? Yeah, try praying for one or two hours in English. Guareenteee ya, it will end up very repeatative. Oh yeah, baby!!!! Now it's time to tap into the supernatural, baby!! Speaking in tongues makes intercession for the saints, according to the will of God, not our limited knowledge and understanding of a situation. For we, as mortal humans, know not (all the time) what we should pray for) It edifies you spiritually, as you are going thru the stress and feeling of not knowing the whole score. It even brings rest and energy to your very soul, as Romans 8:10-11 delcares, (quickens even your mortal body) Speaking in tongues builds up our faith even further, so, if needed, we can minister miracles, gifts of healing. I would say that, in times of great need, speaking in tongues, puts God right smack in the middle of the crisis and we difinitely have his full attention..... Oh, by the way, for you doubting Thomass's, Gods rule: You believe first and than you see!!! [This message was edited by Lightside on January 09, 2004 at 13:49.]

IMF777: Lenords ministry: Taught ministers who were sent home to their churches Wierwilles ministry: Built an empire of affiliate businesses/fellowships all paying affiliate fees (tithing) to HQ Originally, Vp set up PFAL for ministers (pastors) Then expanded it to anyone, maybe after getting a low response level from his peers. Interesting that he did, at the start, follow his teachers ways.

You said: "As VP said, the people start the action, and God supplies the "utterance" the complete words and their meaning. It's a joint effort requiring both human and divine participation." In every miracle Jesus and the Acts believers did, there was an action taken, either by the healer or the healee. When the man attempted to stretch forth his hand, God supplied the energy to do it. When the women attempted to touch Jesus's clothes, God released virtue (power) from Jesus to heal her. I believe that the manifestations work the same way. And not just SIT, but all nine. When jesus said: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" Vp uses this verse to help us understand speaking in tongues, but this principle is also explaining all the operations of the Holy Spirit. It is a flowing out, a release, taking an action that releases the spiritual evidence. John also says: "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified." This also fits with VP's teaching on Pletho, filled to overflowing (emphasis on speaking in tongues), but Acts uses the word to describe the outflowing of word of knowledge and word of Wisdom. Acts 4:8 This is just my opinion, but if a manifestation of the Holy Spirit is Word of Knowledge, than we have the Holy Spirit of revelation. If a manifestation of the HS is word of Wisdom, than we have a HS of Wisdom. If a manifestation of HS is Faith, We have the HS of Faith. Continue right thru all nine. These evidences flow out of us as we act. This is, I believe, why other preachers say to release your faith, the faith of God in Christ which is a spiritual quality of the HS in us. Then that verse, "building up your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (HS) make sense, because our operation of Holy Spirit is also a overflowing and a release, which also requires a building up or a refueling, or a recharging, so to speak. We can even take VP's teaching on Receive, retain, and release a step futher (beyond just the three r's of speaking the word) to the 3 R's of operating Holy Spirit. A Quote from RTHST: "There is potential power in the water of Niagara Falls, but it is unbridled power unless the great dynamos convert it into usable energy. If we use our God-given spiritual abilities, we shall then be effective witnesses of His power from above, "AS HIS ABILITY IS RELEASED BY US". imho, VP was on to something, but his greatest desire was to manifest SIT, thus he didn't completely put the whole picture together concerning the Holy Spirit and its inflow and outflow. In my opinion, his longsuit or greatest contribution was an understanding of Speaking in tongues, not all nine. [This message was edited by Lightside on January 08, 2004 at 10:57.]

Hi Plots, The point I was trying to convey to you (reading so many of Roberts books confirmed this for me) was that this man prayed for the sick, cast out devils and saw mighty miracles and he had never spoken in tongues, or realized any power in its use. Then when he had a need to grow in faith to fulfill what he believed to be Gods plan to have a college built, he ultilized this manifestation to grow in an understanding of how to see it come to pass. It seems that Roberts faith in God, believing God, taking action and releasing our faith were key factors in him producing so many feats for God.

Plots, You said: "I seem to still want to... but it is no longer any conscious part of my faith life... it's kind of a habit. I occasionally offer it up the Lord. But would much rather pray with my understanding..." I just got thru reading 25 books written by Oral Roberts and here are some interesting facts about his life and ministry of healing. He started his healing crusades in 1947 and than on TV thru the 50's. During the first half or starting point of his healing ministry he ministered to multiple thousands of people, with signs, miracles and wonders, some instantly, some taking time; but all were witnessed by thousands and by many ministers, possibly even by VP himself. (Remember the Tulsa, OK meeting, where vp spoke in tongues. Oral was there too) In that first half of Oral's ministry, he had not outwardly spoken in tongues. He says that in 1935, when he got born again, he felt these foreign words forming, but never spoke in tongues outloud and didn't manifest SIT until years after the start of his ministry. He ministered healing to so many and never spoke in tongues or practiced speaking in tongues. He states and implies that because of his great healing he received in 1935, on his deathbed, healed of TB and a speaking disability; and later the glorious message from God, calling him to a ministry of healing, that praying for the sick was easy for him. He had faith to do these things and it was very easy for him to believe that God would heal, if he prayed. In 1935, when God healed him and called him to bring healing to his generation, God also told him that he would build a college, blending faith, prayer and the healing arts. Oral said he had absolutely no faith to build a college, but tons of faith to heal the sick. In the mid 60's God impressed on him to start the college. Oral didn't have a clue how to do it or even how to start. This is when Oral says that he was led into Speaking in tongues; and via SIT, God was able to build his faith and direct him to seeing this project accomplished. Maybe now I understand more of how or one way of building our faith is via speaking in tongues. Lord knows that there are things of faith that you, plots can believe for that do not need this tool. Lord knows, with my weak faith and lack of action, S.I.T. can benifit me. The comforter, the Holy Spirit is given to us, with various evidences to do a wonderful thing, while on this earth, and that is to help us become more Christlike and help us accomplish Gods purposes

Oh my God, if we only knew what power we have!!!! Last July, my sister was in Jane Brown hospital, R.I starting her chemo. She had AML, things did not look good. I went to R.I. to visit her and in the conversation, we agreed on a couple of things. First, that she would see her only daughter get married. Second that she would see ALL her grandchildren. Third that God is good, He loves us; and He can do anything, all things are possible with God. Fourth, that God wants to heal her. Than I made a bold statement. I said that Jesus said that if two agree concerning any matter, when they pray, God will do it for them. I then told my sister that I would pray for her all night; and God will heal her and show her that she was in His hands. Let me tell you, I was determined to see God do his part; and man, my part was so simple. Just pray, it's like childs play..... So I prayed in the spirit, making intercession for my sister, from 10:00pm that night until 6:30am that morning. I mean nonstop, total renewed mind, stayed mind. Man, this was life or death. If there ever was a time to get clear and concerned about life, it was now. That morning, I drove back to the hospital to see my sister. What I saw next was enlightening. My sister was full of a joy and peace that I had never seen in her before. I asked what happened? She said that she felt the glory of God all around her and God spoke to her and told her that she was made whole and to be patient, that she was in His hands. Don't worry anymore. I said via the spirit: "Leslie, your faith hath made you whole". The next day the tests came back: no cancer in the blood. The next day the bone marrow test came back: no cancer in the marrow. When my sister was made whole, it was a complete healing, body, soul and spirit. Not only was she healed of the dis-ease, but her mind and heart were healed. She was a changed person, full of joy and peace, willing to pray, willing to learn more of this Jesus, unafraid of life, ready to walk with God and with big plans for the future. It was a complete healing, in every way. What did this experience do for me. It strengthened and verified to me that we have something very special with this gift of Holy Spirit and the power of Speaking in tongues. Please don't take this like it is ego or a headtrip, but it was a very humbling experience, that showed me that God really wants us be like Jesus, act like him, have compassion like him and heal others, like he did. When I got back to my home town, I went to church and one man with a bad back, that I did not know about, came up to me and hugged me. About a hour later, he came back up to me and said: "You know, when I hugged you, my back was healed that very instant." What am I trying to say? God gave us this powerful prayer life ability, via Speaking in tongues, so we could be like our saviour. Read it for yourself in the gospels, how many times Jesus just touched a person or they just touched him and they were healed. From what I understand, Jesus didn't have the Adam nature, we do and at times it stinks. God gave us this wonderful gift of Holy Spirit with an ability, via speaking in tongues, to burn up the chaff in our lives, fill us to overflowing with Holy Spirit, so we too, man or woman, can walk like Him, in His love, His compassion, and His power. Man, its Christ in you, the hope of glory. I pray that God shows you too what great power he has given you, via the Holy Spirit. Please examine and read how Jesus healed the sick. He only was the master and perfector of walking in the Holy Spirit. Follow his ways, it's right there in the Word. God gave us what Jesus had, Holy Spirit so we too can heal the sick and give glory to God, our father. Do I recommend Speaking in tongues?? A resounding YES!!! [This message was edited by Lightside on January 05, 2004 at 20:50.]

Concerning your input on the VPW confession. Oh God, he died full of pride and blind.

Out of your belly shall flow................... RIVERS OF LIVING WATER........

Yep, heard it with my own earballs....... It was a sunday teaching tape....... When VPW said it, I had absolutely, possitively, exactly NO CLUE what we was talking about or meant. He explained nothing of what he meant or what he was sorry about. On a sunday tape, which I received from headquarters, while in Columbus, Ohio, VP said that he had committed sins, had been out of fellowship with God and that he was sorry for what he had done. I remember immediately thinking: Maybe because he couldn't believe God for a instant miracle???? What sin did he committ??? Absolutely noone in Columbus mentioned or talked about his statements on that tape. Anybody here remember that tape; and the context of his confession of BROKEN FELLOWSHIP????? I think the time frame was after his eye surgury. IMHO, only the team, the cast of characters, the booty hunters knew what he was talking about. Lets find that tape....... I stil have abunch of them....I'll take a look and see what I can find.