Bishop

You accused me of being possessed. The Devil is the great accuser. Therefore, you, Bolshevik, ARE the devil. God bless.

You're possessed. God bless. Just a note. The word "possessed" was added to the KJV. greak is just daemonized . . . .

I have some from DWA. One's about not rebelling against athority, another's about not being homo. they help me a lot.

It'll help you get ideas like this out of your head . . . . .

I think he gets paid a stripend . . . Like $12 a week or something. Maybe they think it's competitive pay . . .

Have you taken the renewed mind class Bolshi?

Did you read the book i recommended, bolshevik?

He's just a decent guy who's been deceived by some cooky people. I think he's doing better than most have in the same kind of situation. As far as the program goes . . . most of the stuff you brought up just arn't issues. They're just a small group of young people living in rural MS hanging out listening to old teachings and studying the Bible. There's no ministry, no LEAD, no one to lead, nothing really odd. Just the teachings are odd. They only listen to them a few nights a week anyways. The rest of the time they study on their own. I heard at least one guy that came up with very unique conclusions during his study time and no one seemed too bothered by it . . . .

I called him humble, that's just an objective observation. I didn't call him a mog or whatnot. I'm not a follower of anyone . . . don't throw me in that camp.

I agree . . . . It wasn't until the later corp people started to rule that TWI became completely nuts . . . . I think there was a lot of value in the whole thing before this points. I think there is a lot of value in many of the offshoots who went back to the good old days too.

Are you asking what the decent, right thing to do was? or just what would have helped build the Way? I think if it would have been left decenteralized and more relaxed, Wierwille wouldn't have been able to push people as far into crazy-land. They would have either left or he'd have had to become more moderate. The hyper-structure that developed was designed to lock people in. From an organizational stand-point i think it was a brilliant idea.

Yes, they're still running it. Over and over and over . . . . . They do camps in the woods for the young ones and listen to the class every year. It's not even on video. I feel so bad for them.

I don't agree with the whole mission of that group and all but I really don't think anyone is making money off it. It's a 401©3 non-profit so the money that goes into it only pays for the program. I think doug donated a piece of land to build the original house on, but there wasn't enough material donated to pay for it to be built so they didn't end up using it. As far as slave labor . . . My understanding was that they couldn't find enough work for them to do. I think they had to help neighbors build fences and stuff to keep busy. I don't think there was any actual farm work invovled. Either way though, I don't think 4 hours a day of work by unskilled and semi-motivated teenagers adds up to that much. No way to know the motivations for sure, but i'd guess that the whole program is designed with the purpose of passing on traditions (passing on the word to the next generation). And seeking approval for one's life by building a community of likeminded people (moving the word). Also, I've talked to Victor and he's really a humble and kind fellow. Nothing like his grandfather. He seems very genuine. More of a follower than a leader.

ya, you have a point. still though, this group's the exception. most group leaders don't earn any money.

Ya, but they're not fiscally dishonest. They don't have full time ministers canvassing the country or what not. The guy that started that probably owns more than a million bucks in farmland . . . .

Hate to be the devil's advocate but . . . Wasn't the whole point of the splinter groups that they cleaned up the act from the Way days? I've heard a lot of people say that they "repackaged Way doctrine." You can't have it both ways though, either they changed the WAY they operated and kept the doctrine or they changed the doctrine but operated the same. Obviously if they acted like the Way and taught the same thing no one would join . . . In my experience most splinter group leaders are in it because they think they're doing the right thing, helping people. They try to be especially careful to be honest, kind, etc because they have seen where the other path leads.

Ya, then they just used the money to move the Word . . . Almost makes you feel guilty for giving when you know your money will be used. Getting more people involved so they can get into the Word without really getting help.

you're right. verrry interesting . . . I've met quite a few a post-restorationist, who believe that the restorationist church went terribly wrong in the late '80s and must be restored to the state that "doctor," the restorationist apostle, left it in.

These topics are so random and off the wall . . . . .

The more sold out you are to the Corp and the Word of God, the freer you are! Like a dulos branded with the Way's cattle brand . . .

Yeah. I'd always cringe when someone who was sick would be like, "I'm healthy, i'm whole. I've been healed by christ's stripes." Then they don't do anything to get better and start develop a twitch from believing so hard . . . . .

Yeah, but I don't think they believe that. They think that they are trained and that TWI doctrine all works. Hence the dissonance and doubt.

lol

This is true . . . except that you can pretty much teach anything and still be CFF. Foundational classes . . . yeah, they're mostly the same doctrinally. They're classes don't teach the law of believing, the gift ministries, or down other churches like PFAL did. Also, they're foundational class has several teachers, so theres no hero worship. Also, they're structure isn't nearly the same as it was at the way. The coordinators can't tell the fellowships what to do. They're pretty much are just there to organize big meetings and keep everyone in contact. CFF teaches that tithing is not required in this "administration." This actually sets them apart from many mainstream churches. No. There is no wierwille adulation. He's really never talked about around CFF. Not mock rocks really .. . . . I mean, they're just normal christian retreats. people stay in hotels and go to meatings. Food is catered in. I think a lot of churches do this.

I was trying to fallaciously highlight the arrogance of calling everything that wasn't TWI doctrine "error." If you pointed to christian theologians, they were off the Word. If you pointed to the critical texts, Wierwille had access to better texts. If you pointed to a logical fallacy, then logic stopped being true and you were still in error.