OldSkool

Your welcome. And how blessed you are for no contact with anyone from HQ since 89. Hard to say but I don't think so. There were two people who were regarded as experts in their field. Not sure they were part of a group. If I had to guess I would say they were there because of their defense attorneys endeavoring to save their sorry, RICO facing butts. Ya, they still regard their written publications as the written word and as such above reproach because it's proven ministry research - whatever the hell that means.

uhh....careful there....you might expose their beliefs as FAIL if you follow the logic a couple of steps away from point of origin...!!!....

Just curious, any WayGB sightings of late?

I never considered this before in this context, but God sends rain on the just and unjust alike. I doubt very many of the unjust believe him, or have believing.

I don't know who was interviewed. They had free access to HQ and the staff were instructed to be open and honest. Other than that I don't know much more. Indiana was sold sometime ago. I do not believe Gunnison was involved, but I could be wrong about that. I do not think any field way corps were involved, but again, I could be wrong. Rosalie is really good at telling people only what she thinks they need to know. I wouldn't say precursor. I would judge it to be part of a whole series of events related to the lawsuit. Really, the Allen lawsuit was the precursor to what is there now. In reality, the strangle hold is still very much in place. RFR is still a professional micro manager who hides herself behind others. She rules the BOD with an iron fist and does not tolerate others not following her party line. They have learned how to be a coercive, controlling cult and narrowly stay in the confines of laws that govern a 501 c3 non-profit organization. It is a preservation society. They have enshrined VPW and effectively built their new religion around him and taken whatever steps necessary to keep themselves under the radar while protecting themselves. Their lawyers have a major say in what happens there if you ask me.

I really don't see why it needs any "research". Look at the context where owe no man anything comes from. It tells you to honor to whom honer is due, custom to whom custom is due - to owe no man anything is to not with hold what is due in the particular situation. They further support the error with old Testament truths regarding debt. I'm not saying debt is a good thing, I am for financial freedom. But my God, they won't let people into their precious advanced class with debt. Really, they are doing them a favor by not letting them attend...lol

Your welcome. Thank you, I enjoyed reading what you posted.

RFR and DM debt policy is killing them and they still think it's biblical.

That sounds like some of the garbage they would spoon feed the Staff to explain the change. Believe me though they did it for compliance with established employer requirements. You are correct. There are several classification for Staff. full time and exempt being the two in discussion here. If you are exempt you have to fall into established criteria to qualify. Manage so many people, job requirements are so and so, etc. There are a lot of Staff who are exempt. I don't think very many of them get the idea though. For example I knew one department coordinator who thought she needed to work exempt hours....lol Each cabinet area has an overtime bank that can be used with PC approval for up to 52 hours. Anything over 52 hours needs BOD approval and you get double time. Standard pay is 40 hours a week, standard time and a half = hours 40 through 46, overtime is 46 to 52, extra special overtime is anything over 52. That is how it works for full time staff. If your exempt it doesn't matter you just work till you go home. Although if you work extra hours in another area outside your normal responsibilities you get compensated.

I believe you. I can't say for sure how it happened. It could be God answering your prayer, it could be God working within you to bring to pass a miracle. In matters like these I do all I can to not judge God's workings. I'm glad you got the car though!

no...lol...They bore you into submission instead. Death of a thousand cuts is preferable to me.

Yes, I said cult experts. It may be worded a little less professional than their field is called, but that is what they were. It's been almost 10 years and I can't remember exactly who they were or the nuances of their fields title. Sorry. 46 hours are mandatory because they are paid a very meager hourly wage with the last six hours paid at time and a half. They aren't volunteers in the sense that the way corps are called volunteers. Human Resource related matters at HQ are, on the surface, very much like any other non-profit corporation. Paid time off system, decent enough insurance, etc. However, the staff are expected to volunteer time to put on the service and other events. It is looked on very unfavorably if you don't volunteer. It usually would make you a target of department coordinator / presidents cabinet having a series of talks with you about the issue if you didn't volunteer.

Believing or fear do not of themselves wield external power according to some law God set in place and even subjected himself to. If you look at the records of Jesus telling them to believe you see that believing, faith, trust is required to receive. God does require faith. Also, when Jesus reproved his disciples for lack of faith it was in the context of bringing miracles and healings to pass. Other times was for not having faith in what God had promised them in his Word. Faith was required on the receiver and on the one doing the miracle. That is completely different from some sinner sitting around concentrating on something and magically bring it to pass of his own volition according to the law of believing. And also completely different from some saint getting better results from the same method. Or worse yet thinking that he appropriates the promises of God by his believing. Having faith in God is foundational for fellowship. And he explicitly requires it of his people. So I have faith in God to fulfill his Word - but it is God who brings it to pass, not me. On the other hand you also see Jesus doing great miracles. God's power brought these miracles to pass and Jesus had faith in God and in himself to carry out the work God gave him to do by the spirit upon him. That's the best I can clarify my intent in the quote you have.

Good distinction. They are scared to death of another lawsuit where they are the defendant in matters such as these.

After writing and rereading this I felt it deserved it's own thread. It's from here:

No, the changes that were made were not to get people to stay. Maybe we should take what I am about to write into another thread? In 1999/2000, when the Allen lawsuit was in full swing, TWI invited two cult experts to come to HQ. They spent quite a bit of time interviewing Staff and observing. The Staff were told of this at a noon meal and instructed to comply with the interviews and be honest and open. A short time after this "sweeping" changes came down the pike. Now whether this resulted from the cult experts or advice from their lawyers I can't say. Maybe the timing was a coincidence - I can only speculate. Here's a list of some of the changes. Some of these changes happened before the cult experts but were certainly a result of the lawsuit. - Staff were no longer required to turn in a weekly schedule of their personal time with a corresponding actual. (many Staff were raked over the coals for not following their proposed schedule but that is another story) - Attendance at the noon meal was no longer mandatory. It was however strongly encouraged, and nearly mandatory in effect. - Attendance at the STS was no longer mandatory. STRONGLY encouraged and to this day overtly coercive, and still required to see/hear each week. - Staff were no longer required to get permission from their overseer to travel more than 30 miles away (past Lima to the north and Piqua to the south), nor to call their overseer if they made a change to their travel plans during their off-work time. - Additionally, anytime a big class/big event was going on, staff were previously not allowed to travel beyond St. Marys--only 10 minutes away. - Before: Any health issues, medical conditions, etc., even down to a runny nose, were to be reported via a note, on paper, to the employee's immediate overseer and updated on every 24 hours. After: Absolutely NO health conditions were to be written on paper and reported on; however, you could still consult your overseer for advice if desired. I guess someone taught them about HIPPA. - Staff were no longer required to consult with their overseer for advice before they went to see a medical doctor. - The "pregnancy policy" (no Way Corps women under the age of 35 were "allowed" to have a baby without approval) was dropped. Afterward, there was a huge baby boom at headquarters and a running joke that "there must be something in the water." YIKES! RUN, DON'T WALK...RUN! - Employees were previously required to work a minimum of 50 hours a week, with no set maximum number of hours. Most employees worked about 52-55 hours, so that they could do "above the minimum." Then, the hours changed to a maximum of 46 hours per week, and nothing over that could be done without approval from Pres Cab/Directors. - Staff were no longer assigned so-called volunteer responsibilities for the Sunday service, classes, events, etc. To volunteer for a responsibility, now you needed to personally sign on a sign-up sheet. (Before, your overseer assigned you and then you were informed what your "volunteer" responsibility was.) - Before: You had no idea how much money you'd be making. You could turn in your estimate of your "need," and then you were informed if your request was too high and then told what your salary would be. After: Those approved to come on staff were sent a letter of invitation to work at The Way and told what department they'd be in as well as how much money they'd be making. No doubt there were other changes made I just can't think of anymore at this time. But here's the kicker and pay attention here. In 2008, I heard from a first hand witness, that RFR said to the Pres Cab in a meeting that "she hates all the changes that have been made". If I understand correctly the person said this rant was in response to one of the HQ clergy attending their kids ballgame instead of going to the STS. The preferred (and coerced method) is for the mother to goto the event when it clashes with the service and the father to stay back to support the service. Apparently, RFR was livid that this happened and went on quite a long tirade that was somewhat incoherent. Yes there are forced changes that RFR and others wish had never happened. On the cover these changes appear to be a result of RFR making the ministry better - in reality they were forced by the law and she hates them and would prefer the old days before the Allen lawsuit.

Ok. Would someone please PM me, or direct me to verifiable details on this? Thanks!

Wow. Just follow the logic a little further. If I was really, faithfully afraid of the rapture would God have to postpone it until my fear was satiated? Egads.

Kind of like refried beans have been fried before....lol!

It's also the reason people developed ExTenze...lol

It certainly removed them from their undeserved pedestal that I had been taught to keep them on. Especially VPW. Even though the sexual predation has apparently stopped with LCM, so many other undesirable practices are still going strong with the BOD and their supporters. It took me a few years of being close to them to begin to identify the wrongs. Eventually I ran headlong into them in the form of a series of confrontations. Confrontations that I can without a doubt say I retained the upper hand. My time here at GSC is all about decompression. I need to vent the experiences. Also, I will not keep silent the things that I was exposed too lest by my silence I condone these very things.

What the hell does that really mean anyway? Isn't that contrary to research? True, objective research would have to mean that you are willing to re-examine your conclusions to see if they still fit in light of new findings that may have a shared context. Currently at TWI - they have what they term "proven ministry research". It's silently considered above any further "research". And yes, this means that the so called research Department, which is really President's Publications, spends time working things from what has already been published as a first, and almost always final, authority. The logic you may ask? What has been published is "proven ministry research". To me it would be more honest to call it "enshrined conclusions from supposed research that happened a long time ago by people who are either dead or long gone". I only wish I was as cynical as this sounds...it's true.

No, it is untrue. Believing does not = receiving. There are multiple verses taken out of context to support this ideal but it simply is not true. God fulfills his Word. Jesus Christ is the very active Head of his Body. You and I do not bring to pass God's promises - God does. And Jesus does what God has given him to do. Our job is to have faith, trust, rely on God. It's God's promises and it's up to God to fulfill them. Realizing this lifted an immense burden from my shoulders.

YES.

When I was single and living there several years back there was a LOT of casual sex happening in that place. I guess that's what happens when you have a coed dorm.