Trefor Heywood

I think it is meant to be satirical ex - implying that the Catholic church is full of poofs... Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

M&A How could you possibly have been marked and avoided when you or so clearly in agreement with Craigipoos upon this issue? Fred Phelps would welcome you with open arms as would any group who believes in hatred and discrimination against millions of Americans. Why not form your own version of the Klu Klux Klan in order to enforce heterosexual purity? Why not do the Nazi thing of forced expulsions and concentration camps? Why not turn the USA into the equivalent of the Taleban rule in Afghanistan? Why not have special centres for treatment where you can administer electric shock treatment and other forms of torture? If you think that you are angry then remember the anger of those of us who have to face discrimination and hatred, ignorance and bigotry every day. The right to discriminate is not in the US Constitution and it still took nearly two centuries for that to be established. Don't hold your breath about being able to change it back in your lifetime. I am glad that posts such as yours will only serve to show people the dangers and implications of what you propose. I rejoice that it sticks in your craw - you are only having to put up with what gay people have had to endure for centuries. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Some background that might shine a little light: Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Made me think of a woman TWI member who actually played at Wimbledon! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

With all that logic Mandii must be a Vulcan! Live long and prosper! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Special TWI weather: "He made the sun shine for me each morning, when skies were grey..." Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Thank you for the clarification Long Gone. I don't know if this proposal was ruled unconstitutional by the state constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachussetts or not as opposed to the Federal constitution or not, I presume the former to be the case. There may be prefectly valid reasons as to why such a proposal would not be constitutional in the viewpoint of the Mass Supreme Court. But it is for the legislature, having proposed it, to pass any necessary amendment to that constitution. The Supreme Court can only rule upon a document as it stands and they have informed the legislature of the full implications of that ruling. Such a proposal was not considered to be against the State constitution of Vermont when legislation was enacted there. But the issue is still that others want to make it a Federal issue as hinted at in the SOU address. DOMA has yet to be ruled upon by the Supreme Court in Washington, who are not always noted for their speed in handling cases. DOMA makes a Federal definition of marriage as one man and one woman but it does allow individual states to make other definitions that would be legal in that state and which would not be binding upon any other state. For Mass to make another definition is therefore quite within the scope of DOMA. Clearly this creates Federal complications and if one or two states "break ranks", and if they are to be persuaded that there should be a purely Federal definition after all - which then invalidates DOMA, then some form of Federal solution has to be found to the perfectly legitimate civil and domestic aspirations of those who cannot meet the definition. To impose such a change without offering an acceptable alternative would appear only to show gay people that they are not valued and are to be sacrificed to the religious and political demands being made by US citizens. If religion claims the right to non-interference by the state in how it operates then equally it has no right to interfere in the legitimate civil and secular arrangements regarding the partnerships of gay people. They want it both ways and that is sheer hypocracy. There are churches already that are happy to "marry" gay couples and no church that does not want to do so is forced to. But without legal protections and rights these ceremonies carry no secular force. If you truly want "liberty and justice for all" then more than knee jerk reactions are needed. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Long Gone: The partnership arrangements here are marriages in all but name. If there were similar proposals being made in the USA then I am sure the needs of most gay people would be satisfied. As they are not I have every reason to indicate my concern and to support my fellow gays who are US citizens. Bigotry is bigotry wherever it is. The same for inequality. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Zix - any sexual behaviour is a matter of choice or circumstance. But choice is made according to nature - to imply that hetero people would deliberately choose to be anything but hetero is as illogical as saying that gay people can choose to be hetero. If your nature found sex with women to be repugnant to you, then you would not do it just as you do not because the idea of sex with another man is repugnant to you. What you approve or disapprove of in your own personal sexual life is not pertinent to the right of others to choose to follow their natures. When you would force people to get married to someone they are not attracted to just because it is permitted, you are creating tragedies for later - the person would be living a lie and a deception - it is not fair to their spouse or to any children that might result from the marriage. Gay sex goes on already, with or without marriage and it has co-existed with hetrosexual sex for millenia and your Supreme Court has now ruled that the state has no legitimate interest about what occurs in private. A restaurant is a business offering a service - there are always alternative restaurants that will meet the requirements of the customer. A nation state is a monopoly and this is too often reflected in the "take it or leave it" attitude. When one is born into a nation, unless one moves to another country that will not only be more to one's taste, but will accept one as a citizen then it is a monopoly. Why should that citizen be expected to pay their taxes and even fight and die for that country and yet not, in return, be given the credit and respect which they are due? You try to divorce homosexuality from the individual and make it some kind of impersonal, amorphous concept. You forget that society is the sum of its individuals, that part of that society is made up of individuals who are homosexual. Even if you don't think that homosexuality per se is worthy of any kind of consideration (and I challenge that it is special consideration), the fact remains that the homosexuals in that society are worthy of consideration and again that is equal, not special consideration. The Massachussetts judges observed that the constitution of the Commonwealth did not discriminate as written. They effectively therefore said that gay marriage must be allowed, unless and until discrimination was written into that constitution - ie what is not specifically disallowed but be allowed unless amended. This is a great embarassment to Mitt Romney the Mass Governor because he is a promininent adherent of the Mormon Church who are going especially ballistic over the gay marriage issue. So his eye is less on the people and more upon his Prophet. The people whipping up the most noise are people from out of state and the big religious battalions. As the USA wishes to lead the world it should also be telling other, more progressive countries, what they think about arrangements they have made regarding same sex marriage but they won't. Bush won't say a dickiebird to Blair about the gay partnership arrangements his government is bringing in. We are so fortunate over here not be in the thrall of religious domination. We have learnt the lessons of the centuries about what that does and the edicts of the Pope are cheerfully ignored in even the most Catholic of european countries. Religion has the freedom to make its own decisions, but is not allowed to impose them upon others. People fled europe in past centuries to find freedom on US soil. The irony is now that gay people may find themselves forced to be pilgrims in the opposite direction, not feeling wanted or accepted in their own country. The US would be in danger of becoming a heterosexual dictatorship which stamps on the rights of minorities. The founding fathers might well have problems recognising the country they founded. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Datway - nobody is claiming special rules etc for homosexuals, only equal ones otherise logic dictates that heterosexuals get special treatment. And Zix, homosexuals do NOT have to prove their right to exist to you or anybody else. They only have to prove that they are citizens of their country and have a right to equal treatment under the law. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Most of the anti arguments have been rehearsed before and they are still invalid as arguments, reflecting prejudice far more than they do cogent thought. America was founded on the right to have life, liberty and to pursue happiness. It was founded to prevent religious oppression and domination, for individuals to have the right to be different and to be respected. When you deny people rights to have their relationships accepted and protected, whether or not you agree with them, you demean the founding principles and create a class of second class citizens. Even heterosexual couple are allowed to be married whether or not they intend to undertake a breeding programme - they are given protections, recognition and responsibilities which are denied to other citizens. The religious reich think that their interpretation of morality is the only correct one and throw a hissy fit when they cannot get their own way. Politicians desperate for votes climb upon the bandwagon of reaction. In many parts of the world this unfairness has been recognised, it is happening in Canada too. Religions may define marriage how they will but they have no right to dictate in a civil or secular sense about how marriage should be defined by others. Courts are there to interpret the law and one such court has broken ranks and set off a panic reaction. From my understanding of the legal situation, this ruling is only applicable in the Commonwealth of Massachussetts and, thanks to DOMA, is not binding upon any other state of the union. Most states have already passed legislation to exclude same sex marriages in their own state in any case. Bush talking about a constitutional amendment is NOT to protect his beliefs about marriage but to enforce them upon the entire nation. It seeks to deny the right of a state, which DOMA actually supported, to make its own definition, if it cared to, to define marriage being one man and one woman or otherwise. Believe it or not, this is NOT a sexual issue - it is not legitimising what people do in their bedrooms, but it is everything to do with legitimising relationships of citizens who are supposedly equal under the law and who have expectations of equality under the law. So throw up all the old red herrings - NAMBLA, paedophiles, the family, reproduction or whatever. Bring up all the religious objections you can think of, but that still does not detract from the CIVIL and SECULAR issue at hand. In the early 20th century, there was another group of people who thought their way was best for the nation - forcing through a constitutional amendment called PROHIBITION. Look what good that did for the nation. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

What you need to do it to install a sense of hiraeth in her. That's the longing of the Welsh soul for its homeland when it has been away a long time. :)--> He who knoweth the future also knoweth our itineries. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

I would like to have that five minutes with Loy Craig Martindale. Not only would he get a piece of my mind but I would point out that he could only execute me for being gay AFTER I had stoned him to death for adultery! :D--> Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

from Dot: Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian and I have seen him quoted by TWI people to support their disbelief in the Trinity. They were also equally happy to quote him in song. Listen to "America Awakes" - "we hold these truths to be self-evident" is quoted in one of the songs! People that make such accusations are hardly consistent in how they make use of famous people! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

OK ex - I will be happy to give you a few pointers for good places to see and if you happen to be passing close by that would be lovely! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Bernard Hill is a long established actor Zix although I guess this is only his second foray into the international scene, the other being Captain Smith in Titanic. Funnily enough I was watching the compilation video I have of my late father's TV appearances and there was Bernard Hill acting with him in Pool of Life, a history of the port of Liverpool! So it's nice to think that I have a link with King Theoden! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

In A British Wayfarer's Story I made reference to how the British Press picked up the story about TWI. As we are not a gun toting culture here (even less so since the Dunblane Massacre) it seemed a stupid assertion to make at the time. However some of the stuff I have read since makes one wonder if in the US at least there was a basis for the accusation. Certainly there are many groupings in the US which seem to think that guns and religion can go together comfortably and I don't think TWI went out of its way to claim this was different, given that guns were part of the corpse training at Camp Gunnison. It would not have taken much for some extremeist idiot to feel justified in going for those who were perceived as enemies of TWI. Under LCM this paranoia only increased and when he started talking about executing people it's a miracle that someone didn't take his crap at face value. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Friends meeting friends is not an imposition :)--> Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

aww Ex! Love you too! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

sure - sending you an email separately. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

I agree that Darren Mk 2 was not as good as Dick York. But who is going to play Aunt Agatha? Can they find room for Angela Lansbury? After all she has had previous witch experience - in Bedknobs and Broomsticks. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

999 in Australia :D--> Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

Paradiseden: Simple really. A spirit does not need a throne but as God is presented as a spirit then perhaps he doesn't need one either. The alternative arguement is that the Holy Spirit is seen at Jesus's baptism (in water golly gosh) in the from of a dove. Doves, being birds, need pirches not thrones. Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"

He must have been our British TV hero Dr Who[/i. Only a Timelord could appear to be doing so much at once praying for WOWs and the whole world to save it from communism, teach and preach, preside over HQ, fly around the world etc and yet still find time for screwing and seducing! Trefor Heywood "Cymru Am Byth!"