Raf

I think you could make the case that this is more moral than imprisonment. I'm curious to know whether he goes free once the debt is paid. In any event, that is not "slavery," that is making restitution after committing a crime. If he does NOT go free once the debt is paid, then we're talking slavery. But the bottom line here is that this is an example of punishment for a crime, not "slavery." I find the phrasing interesting. "Do not make them work as slaves." This already tells you that we are distinguishing between these people and other "slaves." As such, the issue under observation here is the slaves, not the people who must not be treated as slaves. We are explicilty not talking about slaves here. Yes, technically they were. But they were not to be treated as slaves. So how are the slaves treated? Why the distinction? If being a slave was so "ok," then why insure that people who sold themselves into ebeddery were not to be treated as such? Aren't you implying here that being a slave was NOT "ok," if people who sold themselves out of debt were not to be treated as slaves? As previously noted, these were NOT the only two ways the torah allowed. A child could be born into it, through no fault of his own, and held from his father as the property of his master unless the father agreed to become a slave for life, a verse whose significance you have yet to address. That these foreign born slaves were treated better than other nations would have treated them is not really relevant. The issue is that they are slaves, period, and NOT given the same protections as Hebrew slaves. More on that later, since you did ask. Fascinating verse. If a slave runs away he is not to be returned to his master. Note, it does not say "if a slave decides to quit, the master must let him go." That would be how a moral person would phrase it. But in this case, the master's perspective is missing. Why is that? And why doesn't the Bible simply instruct, "he shall be free"? It just says don't send him back. What if the master arrives to claim him? Nothing says he can't. In fact, as the master's property, the slave MUST go back. So kudos for not requiring people to return slaves, but it's hardly "freedom." So the slaves don't work on the sabbath day or the holy days. Neither do the animals. Your point?

Nothing?

Angelina Jolie Mr. & Mrs. Smith Brad Pitt

After fifteen minutes I wanted to marry her, and after half an hour I completely gave up the idea of stealing her purse.

You think therefore you are... correct

The World Will Know King of New York

Mulling

Deleting. Covered in later posts.

Deleting. Covered in later posts.

If memory serves, they won't return a Brazilian. But Victor B is not a Brazilian.

Why do we assume that brainwashing and choice are antithetical to each other?

For the record, if I have quoted Sam Harris, it's by accident. While I am aware that he has addressed issues of morality and I have read some of his stuff, I am not consciously quoting him or citing him. For whatever that's worth. :)

:)

I guessed based on Braddock being the title of one of the MIA movies. The other two fell into place. Ben Affleck Christopher Pine Alec Baldwin

LACKS a sense of humor?

That last post was, of course, completely sarcastic. I was attempting to illustrate what I brought up in another thread, the outsider test. We tend to apply our critical thinking skills differently for religions we oppose than we do for religions we embrace. We do not presume Islam to be correct until disproved. We do not presume Allah's atrocities are to be understood in light of his professed mercy and compassion. But Yahweh? Yahweh is love! If he appears to be unjust, the problem must be with my understanding. Allah gets no such allowance. The only difference between them is the name, and the presumptions we make when approaching their attributes.

But the Quran says Allah is merciful and compassionate, so all of his laws and behaviors need to be understood in the CONTEXT of his mercy and compassion. Have you done word studies on the Quran to determine why you fail to recognize Allah's mercy and compassion where it is evident?

Chuck Norris

Busted!!! http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27616870/minnesota-brides-christ-cult-leader-arrested-brazil?source=rss Courtesy of Jeff Sjolander

The Graduate. "Yo Adrian! I did it!"

Dana Carvey Master of Disguise Brent Spiner

Two observations. One, you omitted at least two ways to become an ebed, neither of which passes anything resembling moral muster. You could be born into it, which is no fault of the child. Or you could be sold by your father (if you were a woman) which is not voluntary for the woman and is therefore a moral outrage. Curious that you omitted those, especially the born into it part. Second, your appeal to cultural relativism in the case of foreign born slaves falls flat on at least two levels. First, it does not matter that they were treated better by the Hebrews who owned them than by their kinsmen would have treated their slaves. The issue is whether it was moral for the Hebrews to own foreign slaves at all, not whether they were nicer slave masters than the surrounding nations. Secondly, and more significantly, many of the protections for Hebrew born slaves that you seem to think (but have yet to show) makes their enslavement more morally palatable simply did not exist for foreign born slaves. So the problem for you now becomes, was Israel's enslavement of foreigners moral? You've finally made some salient points. But our weekend begins. See you on the other side of it.

Not sure you got the privilege of seeing Walken in Peter Pan Live. It was. Really. It was.

Mrs Wolf is correct.

Overall, I think I've made my point and I do not plan to continue posting allegations on this thread. If anyone would like to address anything I've posted, I'll be more than happy to explore whatever issues you raise. Of course, if this thread gets exciting the way the old SIT thread did, I reserve the right to revisit that decision. There are still plenty of verses to explore.