Raf
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Posts posted by Raf
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Welcome, Jay
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Someone wrote a book explaining that EVERY Stephen King novel, short story and original screenplay is somehow related to his "Dark Tower" series. It's great reading. I'll try to find the name of the book.
In the meantime, Flagg is also the villain in The Eyes of the Dragon. The name is apparently NOT a coincidence.
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Avoiding the no hanging fruit... er, the low hanging fruit from Fatal Attraction...
Anne Archer
Clear and Present Danger
Willem Dafoe
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Richard Dreyfuss
What About Bob
Bill Murray
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My cats don't let me live in their house, but they do let me sleep there eight hours a night. Sometimes more.
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Update
There are still some health concerns: nothing to be easily dismissed. We'll want to pray for his legs on several levels: he's got a situation that still needs healing. He's arguing with one of his doctors (naturally, this is Pat). But he's got time to discuss these things with his doc.
He lost 40 pounds (not a misprint) of fluid, has about 80-100 pounds (not a misprint) to go. Overall health is improving. Hospital food (and the lack of) aggravates him. He had a piece of chicken and some cole slaw for dinner tonight.
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DOH!
PEAR juice!
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I also don't believe in voo-doo, although I've heard there are eyewitnesses who will endorse it.
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Never looked at any of those things with a discerning eye to tell how they are supposed to work and what the claims are, so I don't have an honest answer. I went to a chiropractor in my 20s. He said it would do A, B, and C. It did A. It did not do B or C. I think the "success" of my chiropractic treatment had more to do with the foot pads they had me wear than the little gizmo that snapped on my back three or four times per session. As an eyewitness, my belief is that chiropractic is bunk. But that doesn't mean I have the slightest idea whether or how it works for other people.
I don't know how accupuncture is supposed to work or whether it does. I don't know the mechanics of hypnotism and how that's supposed to work. I've never heard of reflexology until reading your post.
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You haven't tried Littlehawk's pair juice.
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Now that I've got a few minutes...
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Anyway, in a murder trial (and I'm somewhat familiar with them having expended my last dime and last energies trying, unsuccessfully, to assert my mother's right to live where she wanted for the last 12 years of her life, rather than being declared incompetent (and then competent and then incompetent again numerous times as it suited the "powers that be") and slammed into a nursing home out of state for those 12 long years, while Ohio pretended she'd willingly moved to West Virginia so it wasn't their business, and West Virginia ignored the matter by saying that the jurisdiction was Mayfield Heights, Ohio),
What the bloody well does that have to do with murder trials? And why do you feel the need to promote expertise on the subject, as if no one else is familiar with the concept of murder trials. I've covered about a dozen murder trials, a few rape, etc. The trial I cited above was a vehicular homicide case: two people died.
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if two or three witnesses under oath testify that they saw the murderer kill the victum, no amount of "expert testimony" about dna, balistics, whatever, will change that- for one can always find opposing "experts" to say the opposite. And so [and here't the imporant part people, pay close attention]the only way to overcome those two or three eyewitnesses is to find two or three others willing to testify that they saw the same man somewhere else at the same time.
BINGO! Eyewitness testimony is not necessarily reliable. You can tell me that you drank Penta Water and afterward you felt good. But just because B (I felt good) follows A (I drank Penta Water) doesn't mean that A caused B. That's what they call a logical fallacy: post hoc, ergo procter hoc (forgive the misspelling).
I have more than reasonable doubt on Penta Water. I've got eyewitness testimony from you and a few others, and I've got eyewitness testimony from objective sources with no bone to pick who say it doesn't work. With conflicting eyewitnesses, I turn to science, which says this stuff is bunk. Physiologists say it's bunk. MD's say it's bunk. The AMA says it's bunk. Who says it works? Two groups of people: those who are trying to sell it, and those who really want to believe it.
Hey, maybe I'm wrong on this. But you're far, far, far from proving anything about this stuff, except that you believe in it.
$12 a gallon for a placebo? No thanks. I'd rather drink some of Littlehawk's Pair Juice. Now you talk about stuff that works!
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Originally posted by Zshot:IMO,
LCM knew vpw's secrets and was able to blackmail him.
That would imply the others did not know. But they did.
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Something's been creeping into the discussion, and should be stopped:
To oppose Mike or his message is to oppose it, not to fear it or him.
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Raf: I'm sorry to hear your report above, but it does make my point about the power of eyewitness testimony.
David, you're missing my point: the power of eyewitness testimony is its power to deceive.
Thank you for the rest of your post. I'm not here to pass judgment on the manner of other people's posts, including yours, so forgive me for getting into that above.
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Todd,
I don't agree with all you've written, but I appreciate the time you took to write it.
It's late, so I'm only going to answer one point:
If you honestly don't see the difference between telling someone he's wrong and telling him he's lying, then I think you're...
wrong.
:)-->But thanks for the admonishment. I'll keep it in mind.
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Dudley Moore
Best Defense
Eddie Murphy
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So that I'm not accused of singling out one thing in Todd's post for criticism...
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Originally posted by sirguessalot:ok, im an idiot, cuz i just gotta say this once...(tho of course i'll stick around to defend "myself"
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Preach it, brother.
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what the heck...yer rules
The only one who sets rules here is Paw. If I violate 'em, there's a notify button at the top of this post. Please feel free to alert him.
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i don't think Dave is at all guilty of what you guys are getting all frothy about.
Nice start, accusing us of getting "frothy," while Dave is, what, the very model of a modern major general?
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he is not starting a cult or trying to get rich, nor saying its "the gospel" (like he's been falsely accused).
Of course he's not trying to start a cult. Who said he was? However, he has equated the mindset of rejecting his claims about oxygen saturated water with the mindset of rejecting Christ.
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and he and many others _have_ actually benefitted from this air-water, and they think its great.
They SAY they've benefitted from the water, yes. They THINK it's great, yes. But science doesn't bear out that oxygen saturated water has any benefit being claimed. So we're asking, where's the proof? Testimony is great, and more power to them, but in order for something to be beneficial, the results have to be able to be duplicated in a controlled setting. Those who have tried to duplicate the results in a controlled setting have found that the claims are untrue. The only people insisting that the claims are true are (1) those who are selling it, and (2) those who really want to believe it. I presume Dave falls into the latter category. IF there are liars involved here, they are in the former group, not the latter.
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I mean, why don't you call Kit Sober and her husband a liar too?
Because to call her a liar "too," we would have to have called Dave a liar, and we haven't.
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or the others who are interested.
Ditto.
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besides, if its just a placebo and helps, i say...bottle the hell out of it.
That's what you say. And you're entitled. I say $12 a gallon for a placebo is pretty steep.
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distribute it.
They are.
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give it away.
They're not.
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friggin help people somehow fer gawd's sake.
But that's where we disagree. We don't think a placebo helps people: it fleeces them. I don't want to see people get fleeced.
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watching this thread has been like watching a sick frat party gang up on what they perceive as a weakness, then spaz out on him when he shows any more signs of weakness.
I'm confused: are you describing those who are interested in verifying the claims being made about oxygen saturated water, or those who pounce on truly significant and relevant matters like screen names?
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The Penn and Tellers of the world are funny and passionate, but they are also a bunch of magicians and con artists with all kinds of chips on their shoulder.
True.
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they are _not_ prophets, nor are they very ethical or helpful in their manner of distributing their brand of "information."
Neither are the sellers of Penta Water.
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"You are an absolute idiot for believing so and so..." is _not_ useful, kind, practical, or anything.
Neither is "You have the same mindset that rejected Christ."
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you guys have spent so much energy trying to save everyone from little ole Dave's stories and thoughts, if i didn't understand it a bit, i would be baffled.
What's so baffling? He's making claims about the benefits of a product: we're asking him to prove it. He's offering his proof and we're challenging it.
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And now, the shame and demonization of Dave has carried over to other threads.
You're right. I don't see any need to criticize this thread on others, or to badmouth Dave (on this thread or others). But when you use a word like demonization, please note who bashed people over the heads with Bible verses on this thread, and who's saying, "please prove your claims."
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what the f? go get laid or something.
That an offer?
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There has got to be ways to better deal with our own physical and mental illnesses than this.
We're mentally ill now?
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And by all this misrepresenting, you are causing more harm than you think you are preventing, imo.
Name one thing we have "misrepresented."
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"Protecing the innocent from big bad Dave Anderson's sparkly water ideas"-->
Umm, discussion board. That means we discuss. If he didn't want it discussed, he shouldn't have put it on a discussion board.
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You would think this thread on "miracle water" has become the official group therapy session for working out all our rabid ex-way shaming techniques.
YOU would think. I never associated the two.
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...yer intentionally going out of your way...to do what? tar and feather the guy? show off to everyone how absolutely and consistently stubbornly mean and rude you can be?
As implied earlier, you seem to be awfully selective in this accusation. People have been ridiculed for using screen names, accused of not paying attention in the ninth grade, knowing nothing about biology... And you're here criticizing those same people for showing that their screen names are irrelevant, that they did pay attention in the ninth grade, and that they know a thing or two about biology. So really, if you're going to criticize people on this point, at least be fair and criticize both sides of this debate.
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i dunno, i think the longer you/i/we do stuff like this, the harder and harder it is to change (if you/i/we even want to any more)
What exactly do you want people to change here? Do you want us all to be just a bit more gullible?
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i honestly think you guys are smarter than this,
I don't think anyone here is being stupid, so your "compliment" is misplaced.
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... and have a lot more to offer (tho, i might be wrong on this too...we'll see)
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:D-->
Well, let me know when you've made your decision. I eagerly await it.
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No one has accused David of lying, that's why. Lying would imply ill intent. As I said, I did not read every thread on this post, but those I did read all seemed to say "David, you're really, really, really mistaken." David has responded, "oh yeah, well I use my real name. Why are you hiding?" I don't see you criticizing him for that. But for challenging the basis of the claims he's making, we get (falsely) accused of calling him a liar? I just wanted to see how this worked.
As I said, please correct me if I'm mistaken. I'm not above saying so when I'm wrong.
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Todd,
Where did anyone all David a liar? I haven't read every post, but I don't see where anyone accused him of lying. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
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You've dealt with much worse than Def???
Sigh.
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Ah. That explains it.
We usually get around it by calling it the turn-of-the-century or the early 21st century.
Oxygen saturated water- To your Health
in Open
Posted
In case the mistakes above are unintentional (as I was so hilariously corrected earlier): it's Littlehawk's Pear Juice.
And I think it's legal in one or two states.
Zix,
Thanks for the links and posts.
And to everyone who disagrees with me: I don't think this stuff is harmful, so good luck and enjoy. I'm not even a little convinced about the efficacy of this product, but I've said my peace on it. Thanks for hearing me out, and sorry if I belittled YOU when I intended only to belittle the claims being made.