Raf

HCW,

I left you a PT yesterday. Don't know if you've had a chance to see it.

quote:

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Here he uses the word "tracts" to indicate what I would call family. I realize even my use of scare quotes still stretches my reference to Raf agreeing with me, but at least he does indicate the separation of the academic arena from where Dr was operating.

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I have no idea what that means. But let me, in the spirit of helpfulness, clarify a few things:

I have always said the same thing Oakspear said, although he said it in fewer words (and more clearly).

I have no problem with your overall analysis above, except for the ludicrous assertion that others benefitted from Wierwille's plagiarism. It's tantamount to excusing a rape because the victim ended up having a beautiful baby - not nearly as serious, but the analogy holds. Wrong is wrong, no matter what right comes of it.

Enough about that.

I've often said that the existence of plagiarism in a published work does not in any way affect the validity of the content. It is only an issue if your discussing the character of the writer. In my estimation, the value of the plagiarism debate rests solely on the discussion of whether the plagiarism took place. Of this, there is simply no debate. The plagiarism took place. That you see the plagiarism as service, where I see it as patent dishonesty on the part of the writer, says nothing of the validity of the content. I have never dismissed anything Wierwille wrote simply because it was plagiarized.

Our key difference on this subject is that where you see the hand of God directing Wierwille to "His" Word, I see irrefutable proof that Wierwille's work is not "The Word of God." It's a point of disagreement you and I will not resolve, so spare me the counterpoint (but feel free to discuss it with others).

This is what I wrote in my forum this week:

quote:

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I do not think Wierwille's books should be dismissed as near photocopies of the works of others.

Every writer relies on others. Wierwille too frequently crossed the line into plagiarism, something I think showed a lack of integrity on his part. But along with the plagiarism there was plenty of his own insight and perspective. The issue for me is not whether he plagiarized - he did. The issue for me is what importance do I place on that fact. Personally, the only time I care that Wierwille plagiarized is when assessing whether or not Wierwille plagiarized.

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Anyway, this is supposed to be a pro-PFAL thread, and I will respect that.

In my opinion, those who read PFAL without guile or pretense will walk away with a greater appreciation of The Bible, even if they don't accept every tenet or claim of PFAL.

Paw,

Please understand that just as Wierwille's claim that PFAL is not God breathed is interpreted by Mike to mean that PFAL is God breathed, your insistence that you were not joking is utterly irrelevant. Night is day, black is white, liberal is conservative and you were joking. Mike said so. Get with the program.

Someone put a pineapple on it?

He was DEFINITELY sent.

I'd put this in silly, but...

1. There's something in the back of my fridge that's been there since I moved to Florida from the Bronx.

2. I've got toe jam with the consistency of Jif.

3. Roses really don't smell like poo-poo.

4. It takes exactly 4.7 beers to get me to walk funny.

5. I really want to know what the hell is in the back of my fridge.

6. Mike and I are the same person. You've all been Punk'd!

7. I've never been offered an illegal drug.

8. No one wants to tell me that I can't sing, so they save their criticisms for after my fifth beer.

9. I've never been up for a Pulitzer, but I'm not bitter. Dammit.

10. What the @#$%^&^*! is that in my fridge?!?!?!

Now he's got some other stuff he's trying to peddle on other suckers.

Sorry Mike, but you gave me a clear opening.

Oh, and I think he knew about the plagiarism but, except possibly for the Leonard material, didn't think it was a big deal: Bullinger was dead, after all. Plus, he probably was not thinking of his books as "scholarship" so much as tracts.

Aw now COME ON!

quote:

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Originally posted by Yanagisawa:

3. Sometimes I put mayonnaise on pizza.

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The moment you do, it is no longer a pizza.

Oops. Wrong thread.

Call me gullible, but I give VPW the benefit of the doubt on anything that can't be reasonably proven false.

I believe he knew the snow on the gas pumps to be a lie.

I believe he knew the Tulsa snowstorm to be a lie.

I suspect he was outright lying about the 1942 promise.

On doctrine, I think he really believed it.

Not at all.

Krys, Dave:

I apologize if I insulted your intelligence. I seriously, seriously question the product, not you.

I feel like the cab driver in Superman II:

Man, this is gonna be good.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:

After mentioning on another thread that I am very sensitive to the wishes of the owner of that new website (somewhat TWI affiliated)regarding my posting habits there on his site, it surprised me that I wasn't immediately pounced on by "the usual suspects" and accused of NOT being sensitive to the wishes of the owner of THIS website.

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Why does the fact that you misjudged us surprise you? The rest of us are used to it by now. :)-->

quote:

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You tell me what you think of Victor Paul Wierwille, and I'll tell you how far you have come in your cult recovery.

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Uncle Hairy

Krys,

I left you a PT.

Jesus. The second geekfocus site is the popfly version. 1781.4, first try.

1869.3, top

Wow. 1200.3

It's like cheating, but legit.

1215!

492.7 is as far as I can go.

1052.1 on the Geekfocus site. :)-->

AH! I see. I missed a page of this thread.

HCW,

Please understand that we've had this discussion here before, and your comment probably reopened a wound or two.

Also, I suggest you need to understand that no matter how clear it may be to you, to an impressionable person learning that so many things she THOUGHT she knew about God were wrong, to have someone acting as God's man on earth tell you that it's God's will to satisfy his lust might carry on a tad more weight than warranted, especially today, with the benefit of more than 20 years of hindsight. How DeLIGHTful for you to remind these women that "adultery" is wrong, as if they haven't tortured themselves with that thought these many years. How WONDerful that you should use gutter street language to describe what they went through. How convenient that you ignore (whether intentionally or not) that on more than one occasion, the actions of which we speak were not consensual.

Why do people ignore the first half of what you said? Simple. Because the second half was so ignorant and detestable that it obliterated any olive branch you were trying to hold out.

I didn't know Wierwille. You obviously did. Bravo that he never hurt either of us. But there are those he did hurt. And they post here. They're your sisters. I suggest you treat them with at least as much respect as you treat your memory of VPW.

Ah, you are correct on the "ashamed" line. I would rephrase, but why? :)-->

And please, don't go away from the thread. I'll leave if you do. :(-->

How are you guys getting 580 and 590? you counting inches or feet?

323.5

is that a tie?

Littlehawk's got one mason jar with a par in it that's probably worth the whole case you bought there, Evan.

I had a cat named Moses who died. A few weeks later, I got another cat. Since he succeeded Moses, I named him Joshua.

I was married once.

I've performed two weddings.

WordWolf and I have known each other since 1986.

I once owned the world's only nice Chihuahua.

I've won or placed in five karaoke contests.

I own about 60 karaoke CD's.

I've seen Les Miserables on stage at least 11 times.

I have never taken an illegal drug.

And I have a big

heart. But you knew that about me already.