templelady

NOt wanting to derail the Loyalty Letter thread I'm starting a New Discussion.

It's about the "Fog years" those three years that everyone kind of slides through on their way from TWI 1 to TWI 2.

87 to 89 is when the charges were filed in Alaska that CW and I have posted at length about.

It's the period when the veil of secrecy, so much a part of TWI leadership, was torn just enough that some of the horrors of the REal Twi became visible.

THere was NO FOg involved--at least not in LCM's world.

THe loyalty letter just didn't spring out of thin air--LCM was very busy in the 87-89 time period figuring just how he would do damage control-

Busy figuring out how he would erase VPW from memory

BUsy figuring out how to cut loose those HE knew wouldn't go along with HIS vision. Remember those 3x5 cards from them he had a pretty good Idea who would and wouldn't put up with his BS.

He knew that the only way to salvage his position was to get rid of any opposition, create a spirit of fear, andd make sure that he covered the tracks as best he could.

It took almost three years to formulate those plans. THe fact that they blew up in his face, the fact that the fear of Greaspotitis didn't keep every one silent were just new challenges to be dealt with swiftly and cruely.

Whatever LCM later Became--during the so-called fog Years he was not in lala land despite what he may have portrayed in public. He was planning, and Scheming , a tyranical despot seeking to remove all doubt as to his right to the throne.

CAtcup

I never liked WC as a whole (there were some exceptions) when I was in. I never even considered that they might be in as much pain as me--because All I saw was the abuse they meted out.

If you have achieved nothing else on these forums --you have made WC into human beings instead of Borg-like automicons.

I am proud to have gotten to know you over the years and I salute your courage and Steadfastness in seeking to undo the damages you wrought while exposing the evils of TWI.

If Rosie and CO. were just half as honest and forthcoming as you, many hearts would be healing instead of in a perpetual ache.

Thank you for being here when I needed someone to vent on and for always listening.

Happy Birthday hope your day is wonderful

MO get scissors. MO get every nasty bit of String and cut in into inch long pieces, Oh Yessssss Precious, We Does We Does. Nasty String, Nasty Chairs, THey Hard and Metal and Hurts our BOttoms they Does...........

HAve a gloriously HAppy Day Grocho!!

May your Garden be Raindrop free on your special day ==Happy Birthday

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I doubt that he has much day to day policy or decision making power left. I somehow suspect that The Fox has got him exactly where she wants him---out of the way and gnawing on the bones she tosses from him time to time

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MMM-kind of like having a tiger by the tail--your "in Control" as long as you don't relax your grip--the tiger meanwhile is resting up for the POunce when you do--no wonder Rosalie has such a shiny forehead --worry, I'm told, Will do that too you.

Since Donna hasn't filed for divorce yet--How much of a conduit do you think she is to LCM--I mean is she there for love of ROsie or to keep on eye on the Fox for the TIger????

I go home to Spokane every summer--If we got all the details about when- done early enough (say feb or MAr 'Cause I buy my tickets before the price hikes) I could arrange to be on my annual trip and Catch a flight on southwest ang come down for a day

HAppiest of B'Days to you

PAt-

EVERYTHING was ok in TWI as long as you were the MOGFOT or the leadeship that agreed with his warped or, could I even go as far as to say, Mostly non-existent sense of decency and morality.

CLear down to the TWIG Level

Rosalie is President on PAper

Donna is still at headquarters

Rosalie may know where the skeletons are buried

But I bet that LCM's stack of 3x5 cards is truly astounding.

Paper is paper it doesn't care what is written on it

Reality--that's another story all together --LCM is still the puppeteer-the strings may be fewer they may be less thick but a string is a string and it only takes one gentle tug to send things careening in a given way-

LCM is still the little man behind the curtain

She's 14

She's aminor

Her mother holds Authority

You are going to have to go to the COurts--Anything else is courting disaster--You don't say what the issues between you and her mother are--but no matter what they are--THat No Contct order means just that.

It may have expired

It may not have

If it hasn't or if it's been keep current violation will end up with you in jail.

If you don't want the courts involoved--at least now you know where she lives--at least the area and town. In 4 years it won'tmatter what her Mom says she will be of age. It's so hard to wait--

BUt there is a light at the end of the tunnel

Been there

HAppy birtday to You

Coolwaters check your Private topics please

I did something tonight,

I went to the Temple and on the Prayer list I put Five names; R & S U, Loy Craig Martindale, Donna Martindale, And Rosalie Rivenbark--

Let us be clear, I didn't get all happy and joyous and fuzzy headed. I asked God not to hold their sin against them. I didn't reveal anything more than the names and I just handed them in and walked away.

DO I feel Better about the past? NOPE, the past is what it was.

I still can't recapture 81 birthdays; 17 Christmas', Thanksgivings, Easters etc.;6 proms; 3 first dates-----

I can't mend my daughters shattered heart-or see my grandchild- or erase my son's anger--

I have come to the point where the thoughts of those years no longer send me into a clenched jaw fury while scalding tears stream down my face and the migraine pounds in my head.

But I can say, that there will never come a day when the memories grow fuzzy or I forget what happened. There are posters here whose glib advice is to get on with life--

Getting on with life is relatively simple --as long as you're not dead life tends to get on all on it's own.

But trying to pretend it never happened, or really isn't that bad after time passes, is a fool's errand--Because sexual predation is the most vicious predation of all--

It is predation carried out in secret in broad daylight. It is a predation that relies on the fact that the human body is wired to respond to certain sensations in certain ways. It is employed by persons who use that knowledge to cause their victims to feel dirty and unclean and responsible because their bodies did respond. They then use that guilt to foster bonds of steel which make their victims acquiesce to even more abuse. They engender within their victims the endless questions and thoughts of “If only…, I I hadn’t… I shouldn’t…I should…., wasn’t strong enough…, good enough…..

They then stand before the courts of men and talk of their illness-their uncontrollable urges--turning themselves into victims of some unseen malady that explains away their guilt--leaving their victims not only with the guilt and shame that they already feel but with the knowledge that somehow or another their abuser really isn’t an abuser but as much a victim as them.

We as society need to stop this insanity--We need to stop allowing the predators in our midst, to blame their mothers and their childhoods, and their pasts and society for THEIR CHOICES. That’s right THEIR CHOICES.

Many a Married man has looked at a pretty woman, not his wife, and kept on walking--It takes a conscious decision to turn and follow her ,to buy her a drink, a conscious decision every step of the way. It takes conscious decisions every step of the way when you abuse and predate in way, shape or form.

No one grabbed them by the collar and made them do anything-- “I couldn’t stop myself “means “I wanted what I wanted.”

If by chance they have a mental defect that makes them incapable of understanding right from wrong or want to argue they are incapable of controlling their urges then them they need to be institutionalized permanently THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE CAUGHT AND CONVICTED to keep society safe.

We don’t hesitate to sentence murderers to life without parole or even the death penalty for the First offense-- but somehow the social workers amidst us (the same social workers by the by which claim that mothers ALWAYS KNOW) have convinced our judiciary that warm-touchy feely therapy is going to work while at the same time admitting a pedophile can NEVER BE CURED!

ENOUGH ALREADY

I wandered so free

not then in contact with "THE"

O wOe was poor Me

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I think Mj may be holding on by a "thread" herself and the only way she is able to live is to remind herself of forgiveness, sometimes I think she is speaking in an effort to save herself.

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WEll said--well said

we each cope in our way

COOLWATERS--Thanks for the memOries--I mean that seriously --as I read you post I was thinking of some of the silly things we did to tweak leaderships nose.

I also want to thank you for refreashing my memories on many points--I still face questions from still angry adult children.

It is clear that TWI had leverage--bad people who were facing MANDATORY sentancing laws somehow became immune :(-->

I am hear to say that peace and happiness are with me--but the memories are for our LEARNING --lest we forget

HAppiest of days to you

HAppiest of Birthdays Cathy

THe thread that started the healing in my life-- How great to see it back-- For the "real" story Ralph D and DAve Anderson gave that made me think thaat maybe just maybe i wasn't as insane as I'd believed

MJ

trying to justify the sin is not the same as forgiveness. I can Ask GOd not to hold their sins againt them ., and I do, But that doesn't make the sins any less sins

NOt only Secular music--The SINg along the Way book was mostly REWRITTEN Songs--Rewritten to match TWI's Slant on things--Music is a powerful tool music sticks in you brain longer than just plain words.

TWI couldn't afford to have hymns thay revealed to much of the GLory of GOD And Jesus Christ--wouldn't help the MOG Thing doncha Know :D-->

Okay let me put some facts on the table; And a warning this will be a long post

1 CoolWaters and I go back a long way--Our Famiies LIVED TOGETHER--What she says about Pediophiles and and Adultry and all the depravity in The Alaska TWI of the 1980's IS THE TRUTH

2) My children were sexually molested by OUR TC repeatedly--too teriffied to speak of it until they were adults --still reaping the pain and shame--the tears shed in the last 6 years have been hard and bitter as truth comes to light in my and my children's lives

3) the TC in question was finally arrested for molestation outside of TWI and Convicted. He was sentenced to 50 years he served THREE, and then was welcomed back by TWI leadership with OPEN ARMS. You don't think there was some string pulling there?? the ONLY way he could have gotten out so soon was if someone vouched for him and guarenteed that they would be responsible for him. TWI s problem was the regular Joe Belivers didn't want this person anywhere near their children.

4) TWI sent he and his wife back to Ohio--sent them to live with a TC and his family--sent my ex there too. Then everything hit the fan--Turns out that the new TC's had a family in their TWIG (no surprise there LOL) that had a son--Suddenly this family quit TWI and turned their backs on a many year friendship much to astonishment of the TC.

I've communicated with that TC over the years--He is a good person who truly tried to do God's work. Imagine his Shock, Horror, Astonsishment when He found out that his Houseguest (forced on him by TWI Leadership) was in fact the TC who had molested that couples son many years before. TWI leadership had convinced those parents that they shouldn't go to the authorities that he would be handled internally and appropriate punishment would be meted out.

5) the punishment Meted out was he was sent to Alaska, no civil authorities were ever told, THe USAF was not told AND HE WAS GIVEN A NEW TWIG IN ALASKA!!!!!!!!!!!

6) he was arrested in 1987 IN 1994 he and his wife were dropped from ACTIVE Corps Status. He has NEVER been Marked and Avoided

So for all those of you out there who have warm fuzzy thoughts about TWI let me make something really clear

VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE KNEW AND CONDONED

LOY CRAIG MARTINDALE KNOWS AND CONDONED

DONNA MARTINDALE KNOWS AND CONDONED

ROSALIE RIVENBARK KNOWS AND CONDONED

HARVY PLATIG KNOWS AND CONDONED

GOT THE PICTURE!!!!!!!

And if you don't believe me print this post off and take it to "leadership" see what they say--It should be interesting--

tell them Maureen Dilley of Anchorage sends her complements

Okay let me put some facts on the table; And a warning this will be a long post

1 CoolWaters and I go back a long way--Our Famiies LIVED TOGETHER--What she says about Pediophiles and and Adultry and all the depravity in The Alaska TWI of the 1980's IS THE TRUTH

2) My children were sexually molested by OUR TC repeatedly--too teriffied to speak of it until they were adults --still reaping the pain and shame--the tears shed in the last 6 years have been hard and bitter as truth comes to light in my and my children's lives

3) the TC in question was finally arrested for molestation outside of TWI and Convicted. He was sentenced to 50 years he served THREE, and then was welcomed back by TWI leadership with OPEN ARMS. You don't think there was some string pulling there?? the ONLY way he could have gotten out so soon was if someone vouched for him and guarenteed that they would be responsible for him. TWI s problem was the regular Joe Belivers didn't want this person anywhere near their children.

4) TWI sent he and his wife back to Ohio--sent them to live with a TC and his family--sent my ex there too. Then everything hit the fan--Turns out that the new TC's had a family in their TWIG (no surprise there LOL) that had a son--Suddenly this family quit TWI and turned their backs on a many year friendship much to astonishment of the TC.

I've communicated with that TC over the years--He is a good person who truly tried to do God's work. Imagine his Shock, Horror, Astonsishment when He found out that his Houseguest (forced on him by TWI Leadership) ws in fact the TC who had molested that couples son many years before. TWI leadership had convinced those parents that they shouldn't go to the authorities that he would be handled internally and appropriate punishment would be meted out.

5) the punishment Meted out was he was sent to Alaska, no civil authorities were ever told, THe USAF was not told AND HE WAS GIVEN A NEW TWIG IN ALASKA!!!!!!!!!!!

6) he was arrested in 1987 IN 1994 he and his wife were dropped from ACTIVE Corps Status. He has NEVER been Marked and Avoided

So for all those of you out there who have warm fuzzy thoughts about TWI let me make something really clear

VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE KNEW AND CONDONED

LOY CRAIG MARTINDALE KNOWS AND CONDONED

DONNA MARTINDALE KNOWS AND CONDONED

ROSALIE RIVENBARK KNOWS AND CONDONED

HARVY PLATIG KNOWS AND CONDONED

GOT THE PICTURE!!!!!!!

And if you don't believe me print this post off and take it to "leadership" see what they say--It should be interestering--

tell them Maurren Dilley of Anchoarge sends her complements

I agree with Catcup this is a much "tamer "place than it was two years ago. The reality is TWI stil exists. TWI still Needs money from Believers and they need to restock on those real soon. So I fully expect that they are going to come out with a new truth and a new spin and start recruitung again.

I think we need to remember that GS is not only for those now and formerly associated with TWI but most importabt those who have been approached by TWI (and yes I believe they are out there) This is the first site that comes up on most search engines. So some "straight from the horses mouth stories" might not be a bad idea

Me I came in in 1982 "left" in 1989

Went through Spousal abuse And my children were abused both physically and Sexually by my husband and TC.

Ended up losing my kids--still haven't reconciled with my daughter and its been 15 years.

A poster asked

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"How do/did you get to the place that it doesnt hurt as much or what do you beleive now and how is your walk with the creator?"

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It's always there not a raw open sore but somedays the ache is still very heavy--partially because the relationships with my children, or lack thereof, is a daily walk.

As for my walk with Christ it has become closer and sweeter I joined the LDS Church and for the firstime in my life finally know what it means to be a BELOVED child of GOd. Everywhere else I wnet, not just TWI although TWI did the most damage, I was never Good enough.

MO

HAppy Birthday too You

MO