If I bring 'in' Fred, then I get half of Fred's tithe. And when Fred brings 'in' Bob, Fred gets half of Bob's tithe and I get 1/4 of Bob's tithe. So we each take a profit from everyone that we bring in, plus we each get a cut on the profit from our 'down-line'.
I guess that I did not see that structure from my limited experinces in TWI.
:)
I have read a bit [a long time ago] about the process the early mormons went through in forming their ritual and Temple ceremony. It made sense to me.
Wierwille's spin on "1st century church in the 20th century" was part of his bait and switch con...and yes, we swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Twi twisted scripture to make it appear that the apostle Paul was at the top of some hierarchy...not so...not even close.
The 1st century church operated as each individual was led by the spirit...there was no chain of command...Christ was the head of the body...in twi, Christ is absent. Wierwille proclaimed that the written word (which he was the authority of), took the place of the "absent Christ". The 1st century believers had no written word (at least no new testament)...
...As I look back, I am astounded that so many of us (myself included) bought into this con...and it's the same con that twi followers buy into today.
With Christ absent in twi, there is no lordship of Jesus...there is only a corporate structure that lords over people.
TWI was/is so far from the first century church that it is laughable. About the only thing in common TWI had with the first century church was meeting in homes.
The leadership structure of TWI's caste system that divides folks into a ruling Corps/Clergy class and an subservient laity class -- is antithetical to first century Christianity.
I dont know what kind of "material" you have Galen, but whatever it is, it does not justify or support TWI's errant and oppressive ecclesiology.
Peter was indeed a "leader" as was Paul. However, they were not "rulers", lording over the saints. They served rather than demanded to be served.
TWI was/is so far from the first century church that it is laughable. About the only thing in common TWI had with the first century church was meeting in homes.
And not always even in homes,
unless the Tyrannus' school qualifies as a "home."
The leadership structure of TWI's caste system that divides folks into a ruling Corps/Clergy class and an subservient laity class -- is antithetical to first century Christianity.
This should be old news to anyone who had a copy of
"Babylon Mystery Religion",
which had a chapter on this being antithetical to
1st century Christianity- and you all HAD a copy...
I dont know what kind of "material" you have Galen, but whatever it is, it does not justify or support TWI's errant and oppressive ecclesiology.
Peter was indeed a "leader" as was Paul. However, they were not "rulers", lording over the saints. They served rather than demanded to be served.
Further,
there was accountability and nobody was inviolate.
First, it sounds like they think the Mormons structured their church after TWI (nope, sorry - historically impossible - and they probably didn't mean it the way they typed it) but the real moment of clarity is the phrase about TWI being structured like the First Century Church...
I didn't get the sense at all that they thought the Mormons patterned themselves after TWI. They just said it was similar, and attributed to both modeling it after the first century church (whether that's accurate or not is a whole other story).
Within our discussion I found it interesting how alike the Morman Church is structured and organized to our own ministry
I think the key words in my post were "it sound like".... I say this because they are placing the LDS Church first in the sentence, as it sounds as though the LDS organized itself after TWI. It's more of what's implied or assumed to be implied by how the sentence is structured, that I was pointing out.
Being raised Mormon and knowing a little about the structure of the LDS church, I'd have to disagree on that account, as well. The head of each church is a President, for starters. The only President in TWI is the one who's the head of the whole thing... That's just one example.
===================================
Belle --
Good points about how we never knew anything about Peter, but there was lots of teachings about Paul. I've been trying to fill in some of those gaps lately. I feel like I came away from TWI knowing about Moses, Joshua, The Adversary, David, Solomon, and Paul. Never mind Jesus Christ, Peter, James, etc. scheesch!
==================================
Still, no one had the scripture on how the First Century Church is set up like a tree. ...
Recommended Posts
Galen
If I bring 'in' Fred, then I get half of Fred's tithe. And when Fred brings 'in' Bob, Fred gets half of Bob's tithe and I get 1/4 of Bob's tithe. So we each take a profit from everyone that we bring in, plus we each get a cut on the profit from our 'down-line'.
I guess that I did not see that structure from my limited experinces in TWI.
:)
I have read a bit [a long time ago] about the process the early mormons went through in forming their ritual and Temple ceremony. It made sense to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Wierwille's spin on "1st century church in the 20th century" was part of his bait and switch con...and yes, we swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Twi twisted scripture to make it appear that the apostle Paul was at the top of some hierarchy...not so...not even close.
The 1st century church operated as each individual was led by the spirit...there was no chain of command...Christ was the head of the body...in twi, Christ is absent. Wierwille proclaimed that the written word (which he was the authority of), took the place of the "absent Christ". The 1st century believers had no written word (at least no new testament)...
...As I look back, I am astounded that so many of us (myself included) bought into this con...and it's the same con that twi followers buy into today.
With Christ absent in twi, there is no lordship of Jesus...there is only a corporate structure that lords over people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
True, however during both of the counsels in Acts they did take their arguments back to Jerusalem and argued before the 'leadership'.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Nice Post Groucho,
TWI was/is so far from the first century church that it is laughable. About the only thing in common TWI had with the first century church was meeting in homes.
The leadership structure of TWI's caste system that divides folks into a ruling Corps/Clergy class and an subservient laity class -- is antithetical to first century Christianity.
I dont know what kind of "material" you have Galen, but whatever it is, it does not justify or support TWI's errant and oppressive ecclesiology.
Peter was indeed a "leader" as was Paul. However, they were not "rulers", lording over the saints. They served rather than demanded to be served.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
And not always even in homes,
unless the Tyrannus' school qualifies as a "home."
This should be old news to anyone who had a copy of"Babylon Mystery Religion",
which had a chapter on this being antithetical to
1st century Christianity- and you all HAD a copy...
Further,
there was accountability and nobody was inviolate.
Paul gave Peter a stern talking to in public.
Imagine how many people would have grabbed you
and dragged you bodily off grounds if you had
tried that to vpw sometime.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Not to mention the fact that we hardly ever studied anything about Peter.....it was all PAUL, PAUL, PAUL.
He11, Paul was ABOVE Christ as far as TWI is concerned. <_<
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
I didn't get the sense at all that they thought the Mormons patterned themselves after TWI. They just said it was similar, and attributed to both modeling it after the first century church (whether that's accurate or not is a whole other story).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Raf --
It's this part of the phrase....
Within our discussion I found it interesting how alike the Morman Church is structured and organized to our own ministry
I think the key words in my post were "it sound like".... I say this because they are placing the LDS Church first in the sentence, as it sounds as though the LDS organized itself after TWI. It's more of what's implied or assumed to be implied by how the sentence is structured, that I was pointing out.
Being raised Mormon and knowing a little about the structure of the LDS church, I'd have to disagree on that account, as well. The head of each church is a President, for starters. The only President in TWI is the one who's the head of the whole thing... That's just one example.
===================================
Belle --
Good points about how we never knew anything about Peter, but there was lots of teachings about Paul. I've been trying to fill in some of those gaps lately. I feel like I came away from TWI knowing about Moses, Joshua, The Adversary, David, Solomon, and Paul. Never mind Jesus Christ, Peter, James, etc. scheesch!
==================================
Still, no one had the scripture on how the First Century Church is set up like a tree. ...
How interesting....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.